HumanDrone 4 Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Wow. I want to seriously congratulate everyone on this thread for their even-handedness and willingness to listen to one another, for the perspective that each brings. I post on a very wide-ranging "Christian" board where many people, from atheists to pagans to Buddhists to fundamentalists, start threads like this, and it usually turns near violent, with at least 1 "Hell" call (a special area where they can call one another things that have NEVER been posted on this board!). And there are many well-educated people there. But boy, do they get fired up on this issue. Our dear Bullethead would be dragged to Hell very quickly - and I bet he'd make quite an alligator to wrestle! I wish I had time to go through what everyone has said, there are so many good points and things I'd like to reply to. But no time for that. I'll just leave this: Have I ever related going to Lowe's to get parts for a solar powered clothes dryer? I told the fellow what I was doing, and he was immediately fascinated, wanted to know just how such a device worked. I knew I had one on the line, so I played him well, talking about how it optimized exposure to solar radiation and natural convective currents, blah, blah, blah, and when he asked me what I needed, I told him "water pipes to make up two "T"'s and some hooks for the clotheslines, it took him 5 minutes of laughing before he could collect himself enough to give me a hand. That's how eco-elitist we've become in the West, as WM says, that we somehow think we've invented "green" when our ancestors only had "green" to begin with (and a large part of the world is still that way)! When I was growing up, pop (soda) bottles were glass, but were always returned for deposit - milk bottles, too, anything glass. Now we think we're the great eco-warriors for recycling a small fraction of the quadjillion plastic bottles we pump out. But funny thing about us. We are, so far as I can tell, the only creature that looks around and says, "What am I supposed to be doing here?" That's pretty odd, I think. Some of us want to preserve, everything from snail darters and spotted owls to old homes or buildings or cars; some say on to the future, whatever it brings; and the whole spectrum of in-betweens. We all have our ideas, and this is probably the first time I've seen it discussed without somebody being called something unprintable. Best to all, Tom Edited July 6, 2012 by HumanDrone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UK_Widowmaker 571 Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Great post Tom!....yup, this forum has over a few years, grown into (not only) a great place to discuss our favourite Sim...but also, to chew the fat...idealise, argue in a manly and respectful manner, laugh and all other manner of non face to face discussion! We have probably on the OFF forum in particular...had less locked topics, than anywhere else on the net! I often ask myself "Why this is?" And I have come to a conclusion of sorts! I 'think' that...because we share a common 'respect' for the aviators of a bygone age, and have empathy for what they did...that in some strange way...we empathise with each other....and the fact those aviators were on opposite sides, trying to stay alive, and yet do their duty in killing those of the opposing team...there was a certain 'respect' And I think that 'Respect' for each other and our occasional, very differing viewpoints, on even the hottest potato...is what makes difficult discussions like this possible! It's what communication was given to us for! (I should add, that I have had MORE of my opinions changed by people here...than anywhere else!) That is one hell of a legacy this forum should be proud of Edited July 6, 2012 by UK_Widowmaker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UK_Widowmaker 571 Posted July 6, 2012 "What's bad about having a decent place to live, a full belly, and a well-paid job? I daresay that a minimum of 1/3 of the world's population would sell their children's souls for a full belly just once a week and about 2/3 would sell their own souls for that and a roof that doesn't leak" Call me cold hearted...but perhaps 1/3 of the worlds population should have kept their d*** in their pants? I mean, c'mon...the animal populations are a natural balance...we are a proven species, that has not even the basic grasp of ecology and how the world 'works' If humans weren't here...the planet really would be a paradise!...we burn, we loot, we steal and we kill.... so that fat, greedy son's of bitches, can get fatter and greedier! Instead of 'saving the planet' by building Wind Turbines and recycling soda bottles...how about we weed out the rich, greedy fat f******...and nail them to a tree? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+hgbn 91 Posted July 6, 2012 Totally agrees WM. Even though I'm not a OFF'er I really enjoy visiting yours part of the wood. You guys have a unique sort of brotherhood with the out most respect for each other even if you don't agree. Come to think about it I really don't recall ever been witness to a regular fight in here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flyby PC 23 Posted July 6, 2012 I'm happy too, and I'm not near the edge Lou, I'm happy to listen to BH's point of view all day, even if I don't agree with it. I think it takes time to learn patience dealing with online forums. You get text and only text, and sentiment behind a statement isn't always clear. I happen to have given lots of thought towards sustainability, because it's a big issue in the building trade. Timber based industries are always the first to promote their green credentials because timber is a renewable resource. So it is, but of all possible building materials, it's the only one with complete dependency upon the destruction of a natural ecosystem. Build using stone, your property is that much more durable, and two perhaps even three generations of those trees don't have to come down. That's a big story, because it means there's less commercial imperative to plant pines, and you might just as well plant broadleafed hardwoods and thereby stop the demand for felling equatorial hardwood. That makes two forests you've just saved. Am I anti timber? Not at all. Objectively, I consider stone is best for practical reasons I can bore you all to tears with, but it doesn't stop me recognising timber has its merits too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) . No worries Flyby, I was only commenting in the role of FM, and only because terms like "citified leftist rich" and "redneck" (from another current thread here), can cause some folks to get upset. Not saying anyone is upset, just that we should keep on keeping it civil and enlightened. To your thoughts on timber as a building material I will say that in my part of the country, when things were first being sorted out by the settlers coming from the east, using timber only made sense. A lot of trees were felled in order to clear land for planting, and the pioneers being the ever resourceful lot that they were, made use of these trees to build their homes and barns and pens and just about everything else they could think of. Some folks were cursed with rocky ground so they made more use of the stones they had to clear before they could plant, and built with that product more than with timber. Others had to bust through the three feet of sod that covered the prairies and chose out of necessity to build their houses out of that rather unusual material. The Three Little Pigs had nothing on the German and Scandinavian immigrants that landed out in these parts. . Edited July 6, 2012 by RAF_Louvert fingers not working, need more coffee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flyby PC 23 Posted July 17, 2012 Excellent!!!! The sun is coming out tomorrow!!! Look! See it? It's the little yellow thing, round about one o'clock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UK_Widowmaker 571 Posted July 17, 2012 LOL...the Creationists are bleating on about the 'Existance of a Sun'...but, I don't believe all that nonsense Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tranquillo 10 Posted July 18, 2012 LOL...the Creationists are bleating on about the 'Existance of a Sun'...but, I don't believe all that nonsense I heard tell that they've got a sun in Italy. I'm going next month to see if it's true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RamblingSid 3 Posted July 18, 2012 Excellent!!!! The sun is coming out tomorrow!!! Look! See it? It's the little yellow thing, round about one o'clock. Gawd, Flyby, that's a sad chart. Thems winter temps here. I lived in England for 25 years, the summers could be more miserable than the winters. Happy, happy times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hasse Wind 46 Posted July 18, 2012 I've given up on this summer. Nothing but rain, rain, rain! We might just as well start growing rice, because the fields look like small lakes. Summer is so short up here in the north that it really sucks when the weather is terrible all the time. Well, at least the transition to autumn rains will be pretty smooth this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Von Paulus 8 Posted July 18, 2012 We need rain in Portugal. Now it's 34º C. Poor firefighters. They will have a hell of a time in the next days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted July 18, 2012 Things are not out of proportion - they are only unequally spread. Rice from Finnland - that should open completely new markets! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UK_Widowmaker 571 Posted July 18, 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3wJslaHTuk&feature=relmfu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HumanDrone 4 Posted July 19, 2012 Come to the US, we could show you some sun! I am now in Mexico on a job, and coming down from the airport in Texas I passed fields of parched corn, acres and acres lost to drought. At home, it's been hotter than it's been since 1988, and very little rain - none since I last posted about it here. If it wasn't for the spring next to the house, all our gardens would be gone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flyby PC 23 Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) In the UK, we whinge about the weather, but it's fun to whinge when it doesn't really matter. We get no serious extremes of weather, no excessive droughts, no excessive deluges, it's rare to get a cold winter which dips below -10 degrees, and everything tends to stay pretty green and 'alive' more or less. We're very rarely frozen solid to immobility, buried under feet of snow, but nor are we cursed by termites and rots which decay and eat everything relentlessly. We do get a decent summer now and again, so it breeds continual optimism, and miserable whinging when we get the more normal crappy summer we're having this year. Climate wise, Scotland is doing ok. There's a lot worse places to live than here. We might envy the sun a little bit, but the next notch on the thermostat would be an English climate, and you're already getting frequent hosepipe bans for water shortages, so we should be happy to leave the thermostat just exactly where it is. Sunshine is still mighty nice when it happens though. The sun did appear for a time yesterday, and just see how mellow you feel afterwards..... Love the picture Tranquillo! Edited July 19, 2012 by Flyby PC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) Reading all this, I must have been extremely lucky with some fine weeks of summer in Berlin. But boy - if it rained, it rained as if the Heavenly Corporation was trying to extinguish all hellfire. PS: If you want to find the last spot of warm sunlight, Tranquillo, you need a cat. They always seem find them. Edited July 19, 2012 by Olham Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
