I think thirdwire fans should see this for DCS

[+Stary 2,427]

(skipped known part)

Flaming Cliffs 3 will be a DCS World Module, But will require LoMAC FC2 to be installed.

FC2 and LOMAC to run FC3? Quite odd... I do realize they don't have rights to certain assets but it's kinda f-up

 

edit: not that I don't have LOMAC and FC2 (I do) but it's strange -that would be module after all

Edited July 19, 2012 by Stary

[+SkateZilla 49]

Q: What's the situation with DCS World and Flaming Cliffs 3 (FC3)? If FC3 is a module, will this still be under the existing Ubisoft brand or a completely separate title?

 

Matt: FC3 will be a module of DCS World, but as a module (not a standalone product), it will be published as a The Fighter Collection (TFC) product. Because FC3 is still an approved unofficial add-on product for Lock On, FC3 will require Lock On: Modern Air Combat to be installed.

 

 

I can get Lock On: Platinum for as low as $5.99

Edited July 19, 2012 by SkateZilla

[+malibu43 142]

Q: What's the situation with DCS World and Flaming Cliffs 3 (FC3)? If FC3 is a module, will this still be under the existing Ubisoft brand or a completely separate title?

 

Matt: FC3 will be a module of DCS World, but as a module (not a standalone product), it will be published as a The Fighter Collection (TFC) product. Because FC3 is still an approved unofficial add-on product for Lock On, FC3 will require Lock On: Modern Air Combat to be installed.

 

 

I can get Lock On: Platinum for as low as $5.99

 

Cool. That's what I thought. I already LOMAC, but yeah, it's dirt cheap now.

[+Stary 2,427]

IDK if I'd buy FC3, the promise of having it merged sounds tempting though

[+streakeagle 867]

1. It doesn't take a $5000 PC to run DCS. With settings maxed out, my new $1500 PC averages 45-55 fps and if I knock down the FSAA a bit I get 60+ fps locked down by vsync.

2. With the same PC and max settings, SF2NA runs at 30 fps over Iceland and falls to 20 fps at times. With FSAA adjusted a bit, I get 30-40 fps over Iceland. Over water or in the older sims, max settings will let me exceed vsync 60 fps. The terrain in DCS has lower resolution than Iceland (hence the 30 fps in SF2NA), but looks better because they paid someone like Stary to make it look as good or better than SF terrain looks after Starry gets a hold of it.

3. I haven't learned ANY of the complex controls, yet I am having a blast flying the P-51D, Ka-50, and Su-25T using runway starts to skip all the ramp start procedures. I have the setting on full difficulty/realism with the exception of permitting external views. The instant action P-51D vs P-51D and Su-25T vs A-10C are both more fun and more challenging than SF series dogfights -- the AI is equally proficient at energy and turn fighting and switches as the situation requires.

4. Moddability is an issue -- but the purpose of modding is to tailor the game to suit your needs. DCS is getting very close to suiting my needs out of the box better than SF2 ever will with unlimited modding.

5. My only gripe about DCS is the unknown future. By the end of the year (hopefully sooner) I should be happily flying a MiG-21bis and only firing up SF2 to enjoy my F-4 stick while flying an F-4. As it stands, my favorite aircraft so far is the Ka-50 because the flight model is so cool. Best helo I ever flew on a PC. I just got Take On Helicopters and there is simply no comparison. TOH is barely better than ArmA2 helos in terms of the flight models. I also like the P-51D a lot more than I thought I would -- its ground handling and FM is stunning too. The A-10C, aside from all the new buttons, isn't that big a jump from the FC2 A-10A, which isn't that much different from the SF2E A-10A, so until I learn to use the buttons, it is the least interesting for me to fly.

 

TK doesn't want to consider SF2 and LOMAC/FC/DCS to be competitors, but I WAS one of the biggest SF supporters. The combination of SF2's direction and DCS's direction has easily brought my SF2 time down to mere minutes over the past couple of weeks after years of having an hour or more of SF2 nearly every night. DCS runs better, looks better, plays better, and may explode in growth/variety of what can be simulated without needing me to waste even one minute modding it.

[MigBuster 2,884]

The A-10C, aside from all the new buttons, isn't that big a jump from the FC2 A-10A, which isn't that much different from the SF2E A-10A

 

 

hmm I don't agree with that - the A-10C is light years away

[+Stary 2,427]

hmm I don't agree with that - the A-10C is light years away

sadly +1

[+ST0RM 145]

3. I haven't learned ANY of the complex controls, yet I am having a blast flying the P-51D, Ka-50, and Su-25T using runway starts to skip all the ramp start procedures. I have the setting on full

 

And that inbalance is what could break a sim after a short time.

 

People want realism, but IMO, not 100% real. Aside from the 45 year old guy who lives in his Mom's basement and doesnt work, most of us have a life that prevents us from learning a 500+ page -1 on procedures. With DCS/LOMAC, 25% will learn the systems on the hardest settings and fly it exclusively. The rest simply want to be able to jump in on the ramp, Ctrl-E to start everything up, taxi and go. Sims need to find that delicate balance to keep everyone interested and not overload the player. But the basics have to be there in the beginning. That is where TW lost me. They dumbed down the mid-high levels down so much to meet the occasional/new players wants and never found the balance. Plus, many of the basics were never implemented/added since SF1.

 

Some new FSX payware models are just like that. I got the IRIS F-15E and it comes with a huge manual. There are a lot of real features, but it takes some serious hours to read through everything. Plus, the F-15E is a complex aircraft. It takes 2 people to fly and run the systems. In FSX it's difficult to do both, so you lose out in some areas in order to keep that balance. Do I fly on autopilot and work the WSO stuff, or hand fly and not crash trying to configure and drop weps?

 

DCS has the right idea, but I think they might be jumping too far, too fast. A full MP environment is awesome. But DCS World needs to be tight, right out of the gate. And adding so many complex aircraft may also drive players away.

 

Mods are nice, but I've seen how they can sour a person (me included). The basics are first. All elements have got to work properly. Eye candy is second. How often do you fly around outside of the aircraft?

 

Just my $.02

 

-Jeff

 

P.S. I'm still lurking from time to time.

[+Stary 2,427]

Jeff is BACK!!!

 

Good points there my friend, I don't do full ramp start in A-10C, well I did with voice instructor -once. Then I sweared to myself never to do it again.

 

APU on, wait 3 minutes till it's operational. Good, now switch this and that. Cool. Now we can switch on this and that kind of stuff IIRC

And we're not your 45 old guy in mom's basement after all -but I love the sense of speed DCS gives down low as I'm a born mud mover khe khe khe

[+ST0RM 145]

Jeff is BACK!!!

 

Not really, still just lurking. But this was an interesting topic.

[+SkateZilla 49]

Jeff is BACK!!!

 

Good points there my friend, I don't do full ramp start in A-10C, well I did with voice instructor -once. Then I sweared to myself never to do it again.

 

APU on, wait 3 minutes till it's operational. Good, now switch this and that. Cool. Now we can switch on this and that kind of stuff IIRC

And we're not your 45 old guy in mom's basement after all -but I love the sense of speed DCS gives down low as I'm a born mud mover khe khe khe

 

 

Battery On,

Battery Inverter to Stndby

Test Warning Lights/Alarms

Test Fuel Indicator

Oxygen On

Test Oxygen Flow Warning

Radios to Tranceiver

Set Tower Frequency

APU On

APU Generator On

Left and Right Generators on.

4 boost bumps on.

Radio tower for clearance to start

left engine throttle to idle, wait for it to hit 60% RPM

right engine throttle to idle, wait for it to hit 60% RPM

APU Gen Off

APU Off

Close Canopy

 

Then Configure Computers.

 

No where in there did I ever wait 3 minutes for APU to spin up, maybe 1 minute.

Edited July 20, 2012 by SkateZilla

[+Stary 2,427]

nitpicker

[+SkateZilla 49]

run the tutorial, write down each step, end mission, start a quick mission, and just run through the procedure a few times, after that you can do it with minimal reverting to reference material.

 

By whole procedure, i mean starting the engines, and configuring the CDU, HUD and instruments.

[+Stary 2,427]

see, there's real life outside games, I prefer that

[MigBuster 2,884]

Dont forget the Kickyou!

 

The only real waiting is for the INS to allign - but thats what time accel is for

[+SkateZilla 49]

doesnt loading up all the sections on the MFD take a minute or two?.

[FastCargo 412]

Battery On,

Battery Inverter to Stndby

Test Warning Lights/Alarms

Test Fuel Indicator

Oxygen On

Test Oxygen Flow Warning

Radios to Tranceiver

Set Tower Frequency

APU On

APU Generator On

Left and Right Generators on.

4 boost bumps on.

Radio tower for clearance to start

left engine throttle to idle, wait for it to hit 60% RPM

right engine throttle to idle, wait for it to hit 60% RPM

APU Gen Off

APU Off

Close Canopy

 

Then Configure Computers.

 

No where in there did I ever wait 3 minutes for APU to spin up, maybe 1 minute.

 

f*** that.

 

If I have to work that hard to play one aircraft... I'd better be getting paid for it.

 

Been there, done that... still doing that, got the t-shirt.

 

This to me is probably why I won't be jumping into DCS:World anytime soon. Because it's about value... and I won't be getting value if I'm not using all the features I pay money for. What's the use having all those features if you use them exactly once just for the novelty. Like owning a boat that you use only half the year.

 

Actually, more and more I realize I don't enjoy the high fidelity stuff anymore. It was fun when I wasn't doing it much in the real world or the experience was disconnected from reality due to the limitations of the hardware or software. Now that both are approaching and in some cases exceeding what's in the real world (simulators at least) they start to feel like... well.. work.

 

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to lean toward uninstaling most of my simulations... MSFS FC2 FF5 etc.

 

To be clear, for those who enjoy this sort of thing, good on ya! If you get value out of it, that should be what matters. But, I think it's not for me anymore.

 

Wow, this post wasn't what I was expecting to write when I started it.

 

FC

[+Stary 2,427]

feel threatened..?

[+streakeagle 867]

DCS let's you play the way you want.

Instant action can give you the same gameplay that SF provides, but with better graphics, physics, and more detailed weapons systems.

Just like SF, you can start in the air or on the runway ready to rock-n-roll.

But it has one more option that SF doesn't: the full ramp start for those that are interested.

I haven't tried the Game mode controls, only Sim mode controls... but I was able to fly and fight without ever following a ramp start procedure.

However, having finally mastered the A-10C ramp start, it doesn't take that long and makes take off a lot more interesting than starting at the end of the runway and slamming the throttle forward.

DCS is an option for gamers, but it is the only choice for people that want both FSX procedural detail and combat.

 

As far as work versus gameplay goes... I feel the same way about Dangerous Waters.

I periodically play through the missions of DW to maintain technical/tactical proficiency, but having done 6.5 years at sea on submarines standing long boring sonar watches for mediocre pay, I have little interest in doing so for no pay... unless the fight gets going quickly. I loved the trainers where we were air dropped into difficult situations and had to fight our way out with good sonar work, smart maneuvering, and effective weapons employment. A good DW mission gives me that same challenge/fun. But I can really do without hours of endless searching listening to white noise and biologics. I love the fidelity of DW and wouldn't want it any other way, but because it is so realistic, I don't play it that often.

 

The graphics and flight model are so interesting in DCS, that it is a joy just to takeoff, fly a few minutes out, then turn around and land. I find it equally fun to fly the A-10, Ka-50, or P-51D. In SF, the game engine is set up to make it almost automatic to takeoff and land without any risk of crashing. Even on full difficulty, I and land/takeoff just about anywhere. In DCS, if I go off the runway, I can sink in the soft ground and get stuck. The aircraft can easily be damaged/destroyed by landing too hard. No sim is perfect, but right now, DCS is a much better fit for what I have wanted all along and over the near term it is only going to keep getting better.

[+malibu43 142]

I reinstalled FC2 on Friday night, re-mapped my controls, and flew in the A-10 instant action mission for almost an hour. I'm not sure what exactly led me to uninstall it last time, but I don't see it happening again. For me, I think that title strikes just the right balance in "button-ology". SF2 is just too damn light sometimes (especially now that SAMs pose almost no threat), but I don't have time for DCS A-10C or Falcon BMS. FC2 is right in the middle, very similar to my first and all-time favorite simming experience, GraphicSim's F/A-18 Hornet 2.0. Plus it's got several different A/C to choose from, although I'd like to see a US multi-role fixed wing in there (F-16 or F-18). Maybe there will be a DCS module for one...

 

I also gave the "Warthog Day" single mission a try and got shot down by a SAM on the first try, but I didn't mind. I'd forgotten how fun and immersive good scripted missions can be. I had to start the engines, taxi, and take off. The RWR was chirping and doing all sorts of cool stuff. Radio comms that don't sound like I'm watching an episode of King of the Hill...

 

I got half way to the target area and was trying to figure what the red warning light was on the panel. I zoomed in and saw it said "Canopy Open". Hmmm... that's weird... Did I open the canopy? Or forget to close it? It looks closed... wait.. no.. Ok. It looks closed but it's really gone! Didn't realize it was open to start with. Must have ripped off halfway down the runway...

Edited July 23, 2012 by malibu43

[JediMaster 451]

Yup, I've known a few people to lose their canopies on T/O in LOMAC/FC during MP. It's because the default cockpit view doesn't emphasize the thing is open unless you have TIR and look up/left/right and see the frame.

 

Makes it louder, too.

 

Another sim that fit in the LOMAC mold was EEAH/EECH (before the mods). I remember getting in and compared to the almost-DCS-like fidelity of LB2 being taken aback by the simplifications made. That said, it worked great in MP and I flew quite a bit of it. The later mods have upped that fidelity to closer to LB2, although still not quite.

[+ST0RM 145]

I reinstalled FC2 on Friday night...

 

Any tips on getting the AA to work? For some reason I cant get it to take.

 

Ditto on your whole comment.

 

-Jeff

[+malibu43 142]

Any tips on getting the AA to work? For some reason I cant get it to take.

 

Ditto on your whole comment.

 

-Jeff

 

Anti Aliasing? I don't even know if it was working. I have my Catalyst set to "application controlled" right now. I can check later...

[+streakeagle 867]

I got FSAA of some sort to work in FC2. I can't remember what I did, but I have a 7870 and I am using the application profiles provided by AMD with the Catalyst driver. I went to create my own application profile like I use for SF2 and Aces High, but I was warned that I would be overwriting AMD's profile if I did so. So I trusted warning and left everything at Application Settings and upped the AA quality to Super Sample. Not sure because I didn't save the settings and have tweaked them all over the place due to playing/experimenting with other games.

 

FC2 at high frame rates is very entertaining. It is like SF2 on steroids. However, I always get bored of flying modern types and being limited to only a few aircraft. If the SF2 planeset and historical terrains were in the FC2 game, I would be pretty darn happy. But DCS doesn't have to be that much harder and may end up having an excellent plane set and similar terrain locations. Keeping my fingers crossed :)

[+streakeagle 867]

FC2 AMD settings for anti-aliasing:

Anti-Aliasing

Mode (drop down): Override Application Settings

Level (slider): desired level (8xEQ gives me 40-60 fps, 4x gives me 60+ fps)

Anti-Aliasing Mode (slider): Super Sample AA

 

awesome AA quality!