OT: "-30-"

[itifonhom 6]

On 25th of July, around 19:50, Lothar Freiherr von Richthofen shot down a Camel somewhere over Fismes, France. It was his 30th victory! I have no idea if this is anywhere near to how it could look but surely this report inspired me to create this image, LvR getting his 30th victory.

Lothar gets level again while the poor chap in the Camel, badly wounded, turns his last pirouette trying to control his burning aircraft. The pilot of the Camel will remain unidentified, giving his life just as "No 30".

Rendered in C4D, post processed in Photoshop, 3D model from Pavel Zoch, background from CGTextures and myself, Camel aircraft from RoF.

 

[Andy73 3]

What a fantastic Picture !

This will be a very good Background for my Desktop

Keep on the good Work!

[Hauksbee 103]

Nice work!

[JFM 18]

'tis a fine picture, no doubt! Very nice and great sense of altitude. However, LvR was flying a Fokker DVII for his 30th victory, not a Dr.I.

[itifonhom 6]

:-) I knew I got it wrong somewhere!! Let´s say it´s just "artistic license"!! Many thanks guys, glad you liked it!!

[Olham 164]

Well, you just need to use another victory in a Dr.1 against a Camel, iti, and all is fine.

That looks really very good and authentic - not only the look but the feeling also.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Olham

[Hauksbee 103]

I knew I got it wrong somewhere!!

These things will happen. I did this pic. of the Hawker/von Richtofen dogfight a few months before I bought OFF P3 and was feeling rather pleased with myself. As soon as I started hanging out here, I was soon informed that, 1.) von Richtofen was not flying a D.V on that day. It was a D.II, and, 2.) it wasn't red. That came much later.

[itifonhom 6]

Looks like LvR never shot down a Camel in a Fokker Dr.1!!! Well, maybe he´s looking at someone else´s victory!! Anyway, it really doesn´t bother me much, like I said, never wanted to show the actual event, just got inspired by this report.

[Hasse Wind 46]

I don't care if it happened like that in real life or not, because the pic is simply awesome!

[Hauksbee 103]

I agree. Where did you get that righteous cloud picture?

[itifonhom 6]

The BG comes from cgtextures site (skies section) but it's shot over the sea so I had to add some "ground" which came from another aerial shot from my collection. That means the background it's a composite!

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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Itifonhom, I agree with the above comments. Historical accuracy be damned, that is stunning! Very well done Sir.

 

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[Mr_Dirt 1]

Very nice it looks very nice.

[JFM 18]

"Historical accuracy be damned"? I think not.

 

Artistic license is one thing; historical license is another. That picture is a great artistic piece in a fantasy sense but it should not be presented as fact--as it still is in the first post. A mistake is forgiveable; not correcting it once it is known is not. Things like this form the headwaters of myth from which people "learn" on the internet, and it takes so long to correct. History and the men who made it deserve better.

 

Since the entire scene is admittedly invented anyway, why not change the Camel to a Bristol F2b? LvR fought several of them in a Dr.I. Although, I don't know if any of them went down in flames.

[itifonhom 6]

Thanks for the kind comments guys, glad you liked it! As for the historical mistakes, well, I always claimed to be a wannabe artist, not a wannabe teacher, so I don't really care much about it. And as I state in my original post, I have no idea how it looked like nor it was my intention to show accurately anything "real". I just got inspired by that report and created this. I could of course correct it but it's so much work and since this is still my hobby and not a paid commission, I can't see why I should.

[JFM 18]

Hello,

 

If you aren't going to correct the art you did so that it matches your caption that describes the scene--fair enough--you should correct the caption. Now you do have an idea--i.e., know--that LvR's 30th victory looked nothing like that.

 

Again, I'm not an artist, but from a visual sense I think your rendering looks fantastic, I really do. I hope to see more of your work. Constructively, for future projects, perhaps keep in mind that even some rudimentary research goes a long way. Although, in your last post you stated that you "don't care much about historical mistakes"--although that belies your caption's attempt at historical accuracy--but, again, fair enough. Maybe next time put LvR in an Me-262; that'll really liven things up!

[itifonhom 6]

You're maybe not an artist but you're surely funny!! LOL. :-)

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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"Historical accuracy be damned"? I think not.

 

Jim, you do know that was a hyperbole on my part. I am all about historical accuracy, sometimes to the point of being tedious, and beyond.

 

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[JFM 18]

Maybe just a little of that will rub off in here, Lou, although I'm not very hopeful. Oh, well, it keeps me employed.

 

BTW, that Jasta 2 photo was taken at Lagnicourt. I know some books list the location as Bertincourt, but they are incorrect. That happens, though. History is fluid, after all; the learning/refining never stops. For many. I could show how it is really Lagnicourt, but .

 

I'll stop the comedy now.

[Mr_Dirt 1]

I understand JFM's point here. he is a writer of some fine pieces of historical works. In his profession he strives for historical accuracy and I have purchased his book. It was well written and throughy researched. I learnede alot from it.. I also know Lou is a very through researcher as his collections show. I agree with artistic license, but history tends to undergo many revisions as more truth comes forward. Just mu two cents.

Best Wishes and Happy Hunting John

[itifonhom 6]

I'm pretty sure that Mr. Miller is a brilliant researcher and posses great knowledge about WWI Aviation. I really respect and admire such people. But here it's all about an artwork. As I already said, I'm a wannabe artist, I just got inspired and made an image, a depiction of LvR 30th victory. I haven't made a photo of it! I'm pretty sure that no matter what I had done it would probably be wrong in some way (wrong heading, sun position, altitude, cloud coverage etc.) and I'm pretty sure that even if I could ask LvR personally today, he would not be able to answer everything. And it doesn't matter because that's not Art. Art is all about feelings, not accuracy. Surely there are a million mistakes in "Guernica" but can you think someone talking about these in front of an art piece? Or maybe do you know any historically accurate painting or sculpture of the Crusifiction? They are ALL wrong but that's not the point. The point is catching the feeling of it and transmit it to the viewer. Yes, I know, it requires a minimum of abstract thinking but it's not that hard. I'm not a Picasso of course, making such images is my hobby and it's fun to me. Reading tons of books about specific details of a certain event isn't! I now know my mistake and I accept it. Next time I probably make a question here in this Forum and hopefully someone of you fantastic guys will guide me to the right way!

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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Itifonhom, while I dearly love the artwork you've created I am in full agreement with Jim on his point. By presenting your artwork as a representation of LvR's 30th victory you are creating and disseminating further misinformation on a subject that is already riddled with it. Someone googles Lothar von Richthofen's 30th victory and your digital painting pops up with no disclaimer to indicate the scene is purely fanciful in nature and "Bob's your uncle!" it is now being cited as proof that it was a DR1 he flew high above the sunlit clouds when he smoked that Camel, (pun intended). It would be akin to a painting entitled 'The First Battle of Bull Run' depicting Beauregard and his men tearing arse out of Manassas Junction being led by 1'000 Mark V tanks, and the work being presented as a somehow accurate rendering of the affair albeit with some artistic license. Now that you are aware of the mistake why not move away from your original intent of trying to show LvR's 30th victory and simply present it as a fine artistic interpretation of one of his many victories. Call it 'Death Waits In A Sunlit Sky' or some such and let it stand on it's own.

 

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[itifonhom 6]

I understand what you say but why should I go and do such a change? Because someone out there without any hint of imagination and artistic education takes for granted what he sees? So if I go and depict Alexander the Great in a Sherman tank is that a proof? Or what if I write " I don't like iPhones- Julius Caesar" will you believe it? And if you do believe it, is it my fault? Art needs freedom, not boundaries....

[+elephant 36]

I have to agree with the others about the title...

A more generic title would be more appropriate, nothing to do with the art itself whatsoever...

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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Aaah yes, how well I remember this argument from my college days. And I’ve personally defended both sides of it over the years. Honestly though, I don’t see this as a case of artistic freedom since you have full freedom in that already. I see it more as an artistic mistake, made initially from a place of little knowledge about the subject, that is now being defended as artistic freedom. Had you said when you first posted the image that you knew LvR was flying a different kite but you just love how the DR1 looks and so you chose that instead I would be right with you on artistic license. However, as you yourself admit it was an error based on your own unfamiliarity with the incident it is now simply an error that you choose to let stand. The difference to the informed is that you created an artwork which was wrong in its conception rather than one created from an intentional, personal interpretation. To the uninformed it may well stand as ‘proof’ that LvR flew a DR1 when he claimed his 30^th victory, and more’s the pity for that. I’ve learned, as time passes, never to underestimate just how ignorant some folks are and how comfortable they are in that ignorance, (and I am not referring to you, itifonhom). Don’t do your part to feed the ignorance Sir. Your artistic freedom will not be diminished in any way, shape, or form by correcting a mistake.

 

Lou

 

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Edited September 4, 2012 by RAF_Louvert
not enough coffee