Rail yard attacks and use of loadouts

[rjw 48]

I have noticed that whenever I have a Railyard attack mission and I target the railyard and then direct my squad to attack with the "A" key, they always fail to do so. It seems I am the only one who goes in. The last time I went on one of these missions, I took a loadout of bombs and then bombed the designated target following which I sent in my squad, but they just loafed around with me at high altitude.

I also suspect that when I choose a loadout, mys squad mates don't do the same as they seem to be flying clean.

 

Does anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong? Are my squad mates too smart to take the risk which is usually high when you go in to strafe! And is it normal that they do not get a bomb load when I choose it for the mission. I always fly as flight leader.

 

Best regards

[+Lothar of the Hill People 6]

Have you tried just waiting a bit? Seems after you attack, they often come around for a pass of their own... but you have to go first. That's always how it seemed to work in my old DFW C.V campaigns anyway.

[Olham 164]

As far as I know, you must possibly press "A" for each flyer.

At least with my settings, when I want my flight to attack mid air targets,

I must do so. You can watch that. Press "A" only twice, and two men will go.

Press it again once, and the next one will attack.

 

During my ground attacks (which I do very rarely) they did attack.

 

As for the bomb load I do not know - the Albatros doe never carry bombs.

[rjw 48]

Lothar & Olham;

 

I tried both of your suggestions in that mission to no avail. I made sure that I had the railyard targeted and then pressed "A" to send in my squad mates, while I waited above the target zone and my squad mates just hung around following me.

 

I have had straffing attacks on air fields and my squad always seems to do the correct thing and follow my instructions, but no success with bombing from our Camels.

[Olham 164]

Well, Lothar said "after your attack..." - maybe you need to bomb the place first?

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I have found the same...I usually just drop my bombs...then leave.....to hell with the Brass

[rjw 48]

Well, Lothar said "after your attack..." - maybe you need to bomb the place first?

 

Olham;

 

I did bomb first, and then waited for my squad to attack. Nothing happened so I then made a straffing attack (very dangerous..took some hits!) and my squad just followed me in but did not strafe and I got the hell out of there quickly!!

[77Scout 3]

_{Pressing 'A' when you have no target selected just makes your wingmen attack enemy aircraft in the area (its obvious what they need to attack). To get them to attack a ground target you have to bring up the TAC, cycle to ground targets and select the target you want them to go after. Then pressing 'A' will make them attack that target. I can't check the specific key-presses,as I am at work, but I think the TAC is Shift-T, cycling that TAC is 'T', and next target is 'Tab'?}

[Olham 164]

No idea what's wrong there, rjw???

 

77Scout, he did have the railyard assigned.

[rjw 48]

_{Pressing 'A' when you have no target selected just makes your wingmen attack enemy aircraft in the area (its obvious what they need to attack). To get them to attack a ground target you have to bring up the TAC, cycle to ground targets and select the target you want them to go after. Then pressing 'A' will make them attack that target. I can't check the specific key-presses,as I am at work, but I think the TAC is Shift-T, cycling that TAC is 'T', and next target is 'Tab'?}

 

Yes 77scout. I'm aware of that and did select the railyard by cycling through TAC but that didn't help. In fact I did everything that you need to do, correctly to no avail.

 

Olham: Thanks for your input. I suspect that Widowmaker is correct, as it has never worked for me. I do get credit for the bombing as my mission summary reflects my hits. I just can't get the squad to participate or to acquire a loadout.

 

Thanks anyway folks. Maybe Pol will read this and add his 2 cents worth!!

 

Best Regards;

[gaw 5]

who said the AI aren't smart? The odds of knocking over a few crates versus the dead certitude of copping it from groundfire sooner or later never seemed worth it.....pilots choice I suppose obeying the brass or flying the odds

[Flyby PC 23]

It might be how the aircraft are assigned. In mission builder, bombers or even some fighter bombers will ignore instructions to attack things they're not allowed to attack (even though they are). I know in CFS3, some of the Tempests & Typhoons, plus Mossies I think too, will fly combat air patrols but won't engage fighters. If I recall correctly, the Tempests have cannon, and are awesome fighters but they won't attack aircraft because they're fighter-bombers, not fighters. It's a glitch, but a CFS3 one.

 

I'm guessing its a CFS3 thing, and guessing specifically that you're instructing fighter aircraft to attack ground targets and they're a bit confused. If you open the mission in an XML editor, I bet the aircraft are designated fighters, and you're designationg them to attack ground targets. If you assigned them to attack aircraft, my guess is they'll be quite happy to scuttle off and do it.

 

I think it's relevant to spawing. Some CFS3 interaction occurs with spawns. For example, fly over a spawning point, and an interception will be prompted. For variety, some of these spawns will be randomised, in the sense that instead of particular fighter types such as DR1's etc being scripted, there's an option for generic 'enemy' fighters to be spawned, or enemy bombers perhaps. That means any aircraft designated a fighter can be spawned, and obviously, you wouldn't want bombers to be spawned in a dogfight. It means spawns work as intended, but with a degree of random chance so the mission might change every time you fly it. There is a % probability a spawn will occur, and designated as an enemy fighter spawn, you won't get the same type of aircraft spawned every time.

 

OFF missions are written differently, and missions are scripted, so there aren't spawns, but the AI aircraft still observe their fighter / bomber status and ignore missions they're not meant to accept, as in bomber flying as fighters, and fighters flying as bombers.

 

Edit - doesn't matter whether you specify the correct payload, the designation is in the aircraft's configuration file, and you can't change it in game.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Flyby PC

[rjw 48]

It's a glitch, but a CFS3 one.

 

I'm guessing its a CFS3 thing, and guessing specifically that you're instructing fighter aircraft to attack ground targets and they're a bit confused. If you open the mission in an XML editor, I bet the aircraft are designated fighters, and you're designationg them to attack ground targets. If you assigned them to attack aircraft, my guess is they'll be quite happy to scuttle off and do it.

 

I think it's relevant to spawing. Some CFS3 interaction occurs with spawns. For example, fly over a spawning point, and an interception will be prompted. For variety, some of these spawns will be randomised, in the sense that instead of particular fighter types such as DR1's etc being scripted, there's an option for generic 'enemy' fighters to be spawned, or enemy bombers perhaps. That means any aircraft designated a fighter can be spawned, and obviously, you wouldn't want bombers to be spawned in a dogfight. It means spawns work as intended, but with a degree of random chance so the mission might change every time you fly it. There is a % probability a spawn will occur, and designated as an enemy fighter spawn, you won't get the same type of aircraft spawned every time.

 

OFF missions are written differently, and missions are scripted, so there aren't spawns, but the AI aircraft still observe their fighter / bomber status and ignore missions they're not meant to accept, as in bomber flying as fighters, and fighters flying as bombers.

 

Edit - doesn't matter whether you specify the correct payload, the designation is in the aircraft's configuration file, and you can't change it in game.

 

Hi FlybyPC;

 

Thanks for your views on this matter. You may have some relevant points here. I'm not knowledgeable enough to discredit your views or to validate them so I won't comment on the technical aspects you refer to.

 

I do have this to say. My squad was instructed to attack the railyard as designated by the mission task. I know that if I don't make an attack on the base there is no credit given. This would normally infer straffing, but there is an option to loadout some bombs, at least on my own aircraft. I don't know if being a squad leader on the mission means that when I take a loadout, the others have to also. At any rate it appears that the AI do not accept the mission task. Sometimes I encounter similar results attacking airfields but this is much less common. To date I have never had any of my squad successfully attack a railyard. No big problem in the scheme of things. I can live without it but it just perks my curiosity as to what is happening under the covers so to speak! In your opinion, if it's a CFS3 thing is it something that could likely be fixed in future releases if deemed worthwhile?

 

Best Regards

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

It might be how the aircraft are assigned. In mission builder, bombers or even some fighter bombers will ignore instructions to attack things they're not allowed to attack (even though they are). I know in CFS3, some of the Tempests & Typhoons, plus Mossies I think too, will fly combat air patrols but won't engage fighters. If I recall correctly, the Tempests have cannon, and are awesome fighters but they won't attack aircraft because they're fighter-bombers, not fighters. It's a glitch, but a CFS3 one.

 

I'm guessing its a CFS3 thing, and guessing specifically that you're instructing fighter aircraft to attack ground targets and they're a bit confused. If you open the mission in an XML editor, I bet the aircraft are designated fighters, and you're designationg them to attack ground targets. If you assigned them to attack aircraft, my guess is they'll be quite happy to scuttle off and do it.

....

OFF missions are written differently, and missions are scripted, so there aren't spawns, but the AI aircraft still observe their fighter / bomber status and ignore missions they're not meant to accept, as in bomber flying as fighters, and fighters flying as bombers.

 

Edit - doesn't matter whether you specify the correct payload, the designation is in the aircraft's configuration file, and you can't change it in game. (Italics added by HPW)

 

Interesting FlyByPC. You're right the aircraft designation can't be changed in-game, but I wonder if someone wrote a mod to change the aircraft designation of an aircraft from a scout or fighter/bomber to a bomber for purposes of that particular mission, if that might work? What I'm thinking about is a duplicate xdp file with the scout designation changed to bomber or fighter/bomber for aircraft types that occasionally flew such missions (I'd have to check what types are allowed presently) and using JSGME to load the "bomber" xdp for your squadmates when you get an attack railyard message in the briefing. The player would have to exit the mission before flying it and click "replay mission," but it might work.

[rjw 48]

Interesting FlyByPC. You're right the aircraft designation can't be changed in-game, but I wonder if someone wrote a mod to change the aircraft designation of an aircraft from a scout or fighter/bomber to a bomber for purposes of that particular mission, if that might work? What I'm thinking about is a duplicate xdp file with the scout designation changed to bomber or fighter/bomber for aircraft types that occasionally flew such missions (I'd have to check what types are allowed presently) and using JSGME to load the "bomber" xdp for your squadmates when you get an attack railyard message in the briefing. The player would have to exit the mission before flying it and click "replay mission," but it might work.

 

Herr Prop-Wasche

 

I took it upon myself to look in the "ODBsoftware/CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields/aircraft/" directory and looked into the "camel_AC1" through "camel_Sqd" directories at the ".xdp" files and the aircraft show the following:

 

<?xml version="1.0"?>

<UnitData>

<General Allegience="0" LongName="Sopwith Camel" ShortName="Sop.Camel*" ModelName="camel_Sqd.m3d" BlastDamageScale="1.0" ImpactDamageScale="1.0" FireDamageScale="1.0" Priority="1" Type="moving" EnteredService="01/01/1917" LeftService="11/11/1918" BlastDamageMod="1" ImpactDamageMod="1" FireDamageMod="1" Category="fighter_bomber" Country="usa" AllowSpawn="n" InfoURL="" ChecklistURL=""/>

<GunStations>

<GunStation UpLimit="0" DownLimit="0" LeftLimit="0" RightLimit="0" RateLimit="0" SystemID="right_guns" Tracer="40" Trainable="0" Trigger="1" Type="OFF_Vickers_air" Name="Right Guns" ConvergeDistance="150" Pitch=".1489" MaxAmmo="500"/>

<GunStation UpLimit="0" DownLimit="0" LeftLimit="0" RightLimit="0" RateLimit="0" SystemID="left_guns" Tracer="40" Trainable="0" Trigger="0" Type="OFF_Vickers_air" Name="Left Guns" ConvergeDistance="150" Pitch=".1489" MaxAmmo="500"/>

</GunStations>

<Seats>

<Seat Name="Pilot">

<Stations>

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Robert,

 

Thanks for looking at the xdp file. The available types appear to be "fighter-bomber," "tactical-bomber," and "level-bomber."

 

After seeing your post, I did some testing of my own, and my squadmates seemed to bomb the target. However, in order to save some time, I chose "air start," which puts you right over the target. I also mashed the "A" key up to maybe a dozen times to make sure they "saw" my signal.

 

However, when I tried a mission that started on the ground and pressed the warp key to save time, my squadmates did not bomb the target. On the other hand, we were also being attacked by about a dozen Fokker DVII's, so that may have had something to do with their reluctance to bomb the target. In any event, are you using warp in your missions? Maybe that is causing the problem?

Edited December 9, 2012 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[rjw 48]

Robert,

 

Thanks for looking at the xdp file. The available types appear to be "fighter-bomber," "tactical-bomber," and "level-bomber."

 

After seeing your post, I did some testing of my own, and my squadmates seemed to bomb the target. However, in order to save some time, I chose "air start," which puts you right over the target. I also mashed the "A" key up to maybe a dozen times to make sure they "saw" my signal.

 

However, when I tried a mission that started on the ground and pressed the warp key to save time, my squadmates did not bomb the target. On the other hand, we were also being attacked by about a dozen Fokker DVII's, so that may have had something to do with their reluctance to bomb the target. In any event, are you using warp in your missions? Maybe that is causing the problem?

 

 

Yes, I often use warp to get to the action and I did use it on the railyard missions consistently. I appreciate your comments. I can't understand the relationship of warp to the failure to bomb. Do you have any suggestions to overcome this. I also have to say I never had fighter resistance over the taget area.

 

Best Regards

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

For whatever reasons, warp seems to be associated with various hiccups in OFF or CFS3, don't know why. Off the top of my head, it messes up your mission flight time, magically recalls all of your squad back to formation even if they are in the middle of a scrap, may mess up pilot claims, and now this--maybe.

 

The reason I was surrounded by enemy fighters was probably because my test campaign was in August of 1918 and my Workshop settings have enemy activity set to "high." I guess I need to tone that down a bit!

[rjw 48]

For whatever reasons, warp seems to be associated with various hiccups in OFF or CFS3, don't know why. Off the top of my head, it messes up your mission flight time, magically recalls all of your squad back to formation even if they are in the middle of a scrap, may mess up pilot claims, and now this--maybe.

 

Ahh!! You may be on to something!! I have noticed the things you mentioned (mission flight time& pilot claims).

My problem is I often don't have the time to fly a mission straight through without using warp and I guess I have experienced some trade-offs for doing so.

I will have to give the use of warp some serious considerations. I hope they can fix that in WOFF if at all possible. I hope Pol sees this thread for future consideration.

 

Best Regards;

[+Lothar of the Hill People 6]

Interesting FlyByPC. You're right the aircraft designation can't be changed in-game, but I wonder if someone wrote a mod to change the aircraft designation of an aircraft from a scout or fighter/bomber to a bomber for purposes of that particular mission, if that might work? What I'm thinking about is a duplicate xdp file with the scout designation changed to bomber or fighter/bomber for aircraft types that occasionally flew such missions (I'd have to check what types are allowed presently) and using JSGME to load the "bomber" xdp for your squadmates when you get an attack railyard message in the briefing. The player would have to exit the mission before flying it and click "replay mission," but it might work.

That'd be pretty straightforward to do with the scripting engine in my OFFice campaign editor, actually. If the mod handles mission assignment itself, say in OFFbase, players wouldn't even have to exit/replay--the mod would load an XDP bomber JSGME folder and a railyard attack mission JSGME folder at the same time. With Bletchley's help version 0.8.4, which is taking longer than I'd thought to get out, will be doing something similar with a custom transfer mission to fly into your new squadron's airfield for the first time.

[rjw 48]

That'd be pretty straightforward to do with the scripting engine in my OFFice campaign editor, actually. If the mod handles mission assignment itself, say in OFFbase, players wouldn't even have to exit/replay--the mod would load an XDP bomber JSGME folder and a railyard attack mission JSGME folder at the same time. With Bletchley's help version 0.8.4, which is taking longer than I'd thought to get out, will be doing something similar with a custom transfer mission to fly into your new squadron's airfield for the first time.

 

Lothar;

 

I'm assuming from your comments, that your suggestion would not apply directly to OFF, but would only be available with OFFBase. Is this correct?

[+Lothar of the Hill People 6]

I'm assuming from your comments, that your suggestion would not apply directly to OFF, but would only be available with OFFBase. Is this correct?

You could do it manually as HPW suggested: exiting, activating the mod manually in JSGME, and replaying the mission. But it'd be completely transparent to the user if handled by my scripting engine.

 

Have you tried OFFbase, rjw? Speaking of loadouts, Bletchley's historical ammo loadout mod will be joined by his new machine gun rate-of-fire mod in the next version. Scripting makes possible all kinds of enhancements to OFF, in and out of the air.

[rjw 48]

You could do it manually as HPW suggested: exiting, activating the mod manually in JSGME, and replaying the mission. But it'd be completely transparent to the user if handled by my scripting engine.

 

Have you tried OFFbase, rjw? Speaking of loadouts, Bletchley's historical ammo loadout mod will be joined by his new machine gun rate-of-fire mod in the next version. Scripting makes possible all kinds of enhancements to OFF, in and out of the air.

 

Lothar;

 

Yes I have tried OFFbase but only just a little. It's a masterful piece of work but I find it too consuming for me at this time. I'm really trying to focus on the combat side of things and improve my skills and enjoy the flying time when I have the chance. I'm sure the role play will come in later. Speaking of later, if I install WOFF when it is available, are you planning to re-issue OFFbase?

[+Lothar of the Hill People 6]

Speaking of later, if I install WOFF when it is available, are you planning to re-issue OFFbase?

I'd like to--hope WOFF is just as mod-friendly. Look forward to stripping out all the features that WOFF should hopefully implement directly, such as transfers between squadrons, tracking of squadmates in-air activities, etc.

[+Polovski 460]

They certainly used to attack but would often fly off in a wide direction and split into 2's etc. Somtimes seems like they are not attacking when actually they are preparing too far away (CFS3). They would take a lot longer to attack sometimes (i.e fly a good long way out to line up blah - aso sometimes they would attack another ground target instead not the one you said to, aah the confusion of war). WOFF will change this and many many many things (think we mentioned the AI is a tad different in WOFF) ..