WOFF overpriced. Is it just me?

[Javito1986 14]

Listen, I've paid a lot more than $60 for a certain epic tank sim, and I'm not even into tanks all that much. For WOFF, the sequel to OFF and spiritual successor to RB3D, which brings to life my favorite era in aviation? $60 is too little for the years and years of good times I'm going to get out of this sim.

[corsaire31 7]

If you think WOFF is expensive..try buying RoF and all the addon planes!.... and then, make your own skins..cos the default ones are bland

 

Not a good comparison...  You don't buy RoF, it's free. Then you can buy only the planes you are interested in flying ( all the other ones will be there to shoot at...) and at the moment there is a 50% discount on everything.   And there are hundreds of user made quality skins available.

 

I don't think there is a competition, WOFF is single player only and RoF is very much multiplayer oriented, so they rather complement each other.

Edited December 23, 2013 by corsaire31

[33LIMA 972]

Value is in the eye of the beholder; each to his own. People are gladly paying $95 for access to the alpha version of IL2-BoS (10 flyable planes ultimately, if not at the outset) and consider that well spent.

 

If you have to pay VAT on the $60 and are used to waiting and buying your sims after the release price has been reduced, and you need to upgrade your hardware to run it...if...if...if...WOFF may seem expensive...but an insult?

 

As to whether it's good value, I don't think Steel Beasts (no harm in naming it) is an appropriate comparator as it's something of a special case. First Eagles and RoF are more appropriate comparators...and indeed OFF if you're considering 'upgrading' to WOFF. FE2 is very good value especially if you consider the many freeware planes and stuff; RoF the best value possible (or rather lowest cost, not the same thing) if you stick with the two free flyables, otherwise the costs come at your choice and rate.

 

As for WOFF, the basic graphics engine has some limitations compared to some other sims, but out-of-the-box, you get fifty-plus flyable planes fully integrated into a great SP campaign system, exquisite new cockpit, aircraft and terrain textures, a shed-load of historical content, many improvements (and some brand-new features) compared to OFF, great music, and great support from the developers.

 

Comparing the three current commercially-available WW1 offerings as packages, content for content, experience delivered for experience delivered, to my mind, WOFF certainly looks competitively-priced.

[CaptSopwith 26]

I know I'm preaching to the choir here but... I feel like $60 is more than a fair price. A big budget game like Battlefield 3 expects you to happily part with that much, plus another $50 to become a "Premium" player, and then your online subscription of choice, be it Xbox or PlayStation, expect that you'll hand over another fistful of cash to play other people. And yes, I know that we're talking about a flight sim, not a multi-billion dollar title, but for me, that's all the more reason to pay $60 plus another bit for 4000 + aircraft skins. I've known Pol, Winder, Sandbagger, OvS, Shred, and the rest for going on fifteen years now. And they have, in their time away from their day jobs, created a flight sim that would have been released by a major publisher back in the 90s. It's the most complete single player recreation of the Western Front in World War I. It gives you 55 aircraft to play with out of the box, and it immerses you in the most completely dynamic campaign that we are likely to see - possibly ever again.

 

And I also agree with 33Lima... value is in the eye of the beholder. For me, this is the sim I've wanted to play since I discovered WWI aviation in the mid-90s. So for me, $60, even on my budget, is one heck of a good value.

[JimAttrill 24]

And I also agree with 33Lima... value is in the eye of the beholder. For me, this is the sim I've wanted to play since I discovered WWI aviation in the mid-90s. So for me, $60, even on my budget, is one heck of a good value.

Me too.  Although I did like 'Wings of Glory' but that was easy compared to OFF and WOFF.  Now I have to really fly properly.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Not a good comparison...  You don't buy RoF, it's free. Then you can buy only the planes you are interested in flying ( all the other ones will be there to shoot at...) and at the moment there is a 50% discount on everything.   And there are hundreds of user made quality skins available.

 

I don't think there is a competition, WOFF is single player only and RoF is very much multiplayer oriented, so they rather complement each other.

 

It certainly wasn't free when I paid through the nose for it!!!! I bought the DVD when it first came out (y'know..support the devs) then a few weeks later, they bring out the Iron Cross version at half the price, with more planes...and now it's f*cking free???

 

Sod 'em

Edited December 23, 2013 by UK_Widowmaker

[corsaire31 7]

It certainly wasn't free when I paid through the nose for it!!!! I bought the DVD when it first came out (y'know..support the devs) then a few weeks later, they bring out the Iron Cross version at half the price, with more planes...and now it's f*cking free???

 

Sod 'em

This is one of the reasons why I never buy games on release ... besides the fact they are most of the time not finished !  

Edited December 23, 2013 by corsaire31

[Olham 164]

No reason to fight pro or con WOFF and RoF here IMHO.

What I have seen so far from WOFF, it will be without any comparison for the single-player campaigns.

The new AI is miles beyond anything else - they appear like they have their own lives, their own minds,

and as if their decisions might be as spontaneous as mine are quite often.

And RoF is really good for online-flying and fighting other human flyers.

So they both hold their own grounds, I'm sure.

[angles1100 0]

This is one of the reasons why I never buy games on release ... besides the fact they are most of the time not finished !  

ditto

 

cheers

[corsaire31 7]

No reason to fight pro or con WOFF and RoF here IMHO.

What I have seen so far from WOFF, it will be without any comparison for the single-player campaigns.

The new AI is miles beyond anything else - they appear like they have their own lives, their own minds,

and as if their decisions might be as spontaneous as mine are quite often.

And RoF is really good for online-flying and fighting other human flyers.

So they both hold their own grounds, I'm sure.

 

Agreed with you Olham, this is why I never understood why people are presenting it as a choice.

 

From the beginning, RoF has been developped as a multi-player game. The single player campaign has been added afterwards and nothing significant has been done by 777 studios to make the AI better.  PWCG (latest 15.2) is the only thing that makes me fly some single player missions as Pat Wilson has made great steps forward with the last releases, specially with the AI behaviour when coupled with AI mod. I consider them as "training".

 

When I want to make serious single player flying, I start OFF (with HPW FM/EW 4.0 and Ultimate DM 1.25) which I will replace with WOFF at some point in 2014.

On the other hand, OFF/WOFF lacks the multiplayer environment. Why spend a lot of time trying to develop an AI which will try to behave like human pilots when it is simple to fly directly against human pilots ?

I know that many people are complaining that players use Teamspeak in multiplayer environment. This is true on public servers, but I participate every week in missions and campaigns on private servers where we fly no comms and only communicate with flares and wing waggles.

 

If I look at the almost ended year 2013, I think I spent an equal flying time in both sims and I enjoyed all of it. 

[Javito1986 14]

My favorite is a dynamic SP campaign flight sim in the tradition of Red Baron 3D. That's what I love about WOFF, it fills and exceeds that old void. If I could only take one flight sim with me to a desert island, it would be this one.

 

But I also love multiplayer flight sims. IL-2 Cliffs Of Dover with the most recent patches and using teamspeak on the ATAG server, at full realism, with no visual aids and complex engine management. That is god tier gaming.

 

Buuuuut at the end of the day I do prefer a (good) SP campaign. Multiplayer, at the end of the day, is always team deathmatch, which can only be so interesting for so long. WOFF makes history come to life and will always be my favorite.

[DukeIronHand 8]

"My favorite is a dynamic SP campaign flight sim in the tradition of Red Baron 3D. That's what I love about WOFF, it fills and exceeds that old void. If I could only take one flight sim with me to a desert island, it would be this one. "

 

+1

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I wasn't making the comparison between the two sims on a playable level. The thread is about 'value for money'

[von Baur 54]

"My favorite is a dynamic SP campaign flight sim in the tradition of Red Baron 3D. That's what I love about WOFF, it fills and exceeds that old void. If I could only take one flight sim with me to a desert island, it would be this one. "

 

 

A desert island with electricity, that is.

[DukeIronHand 8]

+2?

[corsaire31 7]

Buuuuut at the end of the day I do prefer a (good) SP campaign. Multiplayer, at the end of the day, is always team deathmatch, which can only be so interesting for so long.

This is probably because you never participated in organised multiplayer campaigns that can span over several months. You should try, it is really interesting as there is a logistics part behind where bombing factories/fuel dumps/ammo dumps have a direct impact on how many aircraft/fuel/ammo will be available for future missions. Also recon aircraft play a big part as you need to recon targets (and bring screenshots back to your airfield) before you can attack them in next mission, so two-seater pilots are also very important - I have flown 4 hours recon aircraft where the game was to stay stealthy using clouds and avoid combat. The general weekly strategic and tactical planning of each mission (I am side commander for Central forces in one of these campaigns) is also very interesting IMHO.

Edited December 25, 2013 by corsaire31

[Olham 164]

I could only spend very little time with WOFF (can only fly more after Xmas holidays),

but it was enough to realise, that the new AI is a big multiplier for the immersion factor.

It behaves unpredictable, different at different times, or even spontaneous - like a

youngster, a hotspur.

You never know, if it will act and react smart and cool, or irritated and uncertain, or

timid or tired.

Is their retreat you witness a reaction of fear or carefulness, or a clever strategy;

is it based on orders, or are they only seeking for a better position, a better chance?

Are they really flying away, or will they come back and surprise you?

 

So I have not explored WOFF much at all yet, but I'm sure for myself: that new AI alone

is definitely worth the price of the sim. They appear to me like real people, like lots

of different characters, in varying moods.

And that is no less but another dimension of immersion - it is a true art work.

[Wayfarer 5]

I think WOFF is a reasonable price.  VAT and delivery racks up the cost a bit for the UK but I still consider it will be worth it. I say will because my computer will not currently run CFS3/OFF and I am still working on that.  I bought WOFF anyway becasue I thought that the Devs deserved my patronage after all their efforts.

[Javito1986 14]

This is probably because you never participated in organised multiplayer campaigns that can span over several months. You should try, it is really interesting as there is a logistics part behind where bombing factories/fuel dumps/ammo dumps have a direct impact on how many aircraft/fuel/ammo will be available for future missions. Also recon aircraft play a big part as you need to recon targets (and bring screenshots back to your airfield) before you can attack them in next mission, so two-seater pilots are also very important - I have flown 4 hours recon aircraft where the game was to stay stealthy using clouds and avoid combat. The general weekly strategic and tactical planning of each mission (I am side commander for Central forces in one of these campaigns) is also very interesting IMHO.

 

 

You're right, I haven't done that, and that does sound like a great time. What sim are you talking about where that goes on?

[corsaire31 7]

Rise of Flight... 

[corsaire31 7]

More precisions :

 

I am side commander for Central in a 1916 campaign, we have 3 groups on each side so between 20 and 25 players. We advance 2 weeks every mission and also 2 hours in the daytime, with night missions and "special missions" like bridge busting or pick up a spy at twilight on a remote airfield, or attack the other side's commander train, etc...  We play every Monday and it will be 24 missions overall, 6 months in real time. We are at mission 11 at this point. It is based on a cumulative points system with plus points for objectives, air victories, ground targets, photos of enemy HQ and minus points for pilots and planes lost.

 

The other campaign I fly at the moment (with Olham) is called Flaming Eagles of War (FEOW) and spans over the war from 1916 to 1918. The different planes are introduced at historical dates and it will also last 6 months, we fly one mission every 2 weeks. There are two fronts, one flying 4 hour missions on Friday for europeans and one flying 4 hour missions on Saturday for americans. Max 40 players on each side for every mission, 2 lives per mission. Based on ground conquest with recons of artillery positions actioning ground troops. Fuel dumps and ammo dumps at airfields can be bombed, thus reducing fuel and ammo for next mission at this airfield. Factories producing airplanes can be bombed after successful recons by two seaters giving information on their activity ( there are also fake ones on the map) which influences the number and type of planes available for next mission.

 

I also participate almost weekly inside the french community to many small missions / mini campaigns historically accurate and flown "no-comms" with 10 to 15 players.

 

Just to say online multiplayer is not limited to "team deathmatch"...

Edited December 26, 2013 by corsaire31

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

That sounds like a lot of fun corsaire31, quite reminiscent of some of the old RB3D online campaigns.  I wish I had more time and a better internet connection, I'd be onboard in a heartbeat.

 

Oh, and to the OP, WOFF is definitely not overpriced in my humble and honest opinion.

 

.

[Hellshade 110]

Is it just me, but is WOFF overpriced? I, for one, shall be boycotting WOFF until the price is reduced by at least £10. The asking price is way overpriced IMHO and an insult to us WW1 aviation buffs.

 

I can't speak for anyone else because "overpriced" really depends on a persons personal budget.   I will say that flight sims in general are a niche market and WWI flight sims in specific are a small niche within that niche market.   This isn't the 90s.   WWI flight sims aren't exactly pouring into the market these days, so that means that there are going to be precious few buyers to compensate the devs for their time.    That isn't an excuse to support just any old thing labeled a "WWI flight sim".   I do believe in supporting quality products though and WOFF has quality in spades.   The single player campaign is second to none and I don't hear anyone complaining that there isn't enough immersion or that the dogfights are stale.   Cap that off with fantastic scenery, 55 flyable planes and most importantly, strong, active support from developers who are passionate about their product and you have a very good over-all product worth purchasing, IMHO.

 

If you want to talk pure dollar per plane value, you get 55 planes in WOFF for $60.   Another WWI sim gives the game away for free but you need to buy each plane that you wish to fly.   That's fine.  Not complaining, it's how their business model works.    Most of their planes are between $7 and $15 but lets assume you could buy 55 planes from them all on sale at just $5 per plane.   55 planes  x $5 = $275.    The real price is easily double that and you don't get the awesome WOFF AI or the amazing single player campaign, though they do have a very nice 3rd party SP campaign which I think is well done.   

 

So I have to say if WOFF is "overpriced" at $60, your other choices are definitely not less expensive to try to replicate all that you get in WOFF.     For myself, I find WOFF to be an excellent value and not overpriced at all.     And for the record, I own almost all of the planes in the other sim and as corsair has pointed out it, it can be a lot of fun multiplayer. 

Edited December 27, 2013 by Hellshade

[corsaire31 7]

Not to stir up the debate again, but you don't have to buy 55 planes... 

Although I don't think WOFF is overpriced (and I plan to buy it in 2014 as soon as my bank account is back to a normal situation after the madness of year's end), I'm pretty sure I will never have the time (or the will) to fly 55 planes. I usually play campaigns following one Escadrille or Squadron or Jasta or Schlasta throughout the war, so each campaign takes me several months (even if I'm lucky to be old enough to have plenty of time to fly - but I fly several sims...)

[Hellshade 110]

No debate about it.  Both sims have some great features in them and I recommend folks own both if they can.   I'm just saying if you want to have the ability to fly as many planes as WOFF offers, $60 is a very good deal.