Russian Weapons

[alexis99]

I've downloaded some modern Russian aircraft like the Sukhoi 30, MiG-35, in order to have something to kill when I'm flying the F-35 in year 2000.

When I test flew the Russian planes, all the weapon hardpoints were empty.

So I opened the Loadout file to check if I had the weapons that they were supposed to carry.

In each case the specified weapon had a different designation to its counterpart in the Weapon folder.

So I altered the weapon loadout to match the names in the weapon folder and managed to get some weapons loaded, mainly Aphids and Atolls, which are still available in 2000.

Then I went on an intercept mission, and whilst the MiG-21s were all tooled up, the MiG-35s were flying empty.

Seems I'm missing something here.

Is there some new Russian Weapon pack I should know about?

Thank you

[Wrench]

Have you downloaded the appropriate new(er) Russian weapons, via a weapons pak or individually?

Have you added the new(er) Soviet weapons via the weapons editor???

They won't won't show up until that's been done

 

even at the 08 patch level

[bazillius]

You need to redo all Loadout.ini files by your hand and rename all, for example, "R-27R" to "AA-10A", all "R-73M1" to "AA-11B" all "R-77" to "AA-12", etc. and so on and on.  Long, tiresome work. I once did it for myself. a lot of work but its only way to kill MiGs with pleasure.

[UllyB]

You need to have Russian weapons (missiles, bombs etc) into your weapondata.ini file you use in the game. The file resides in the "WO*\objects\weapons" folder, it is called weapondata.ini. It's a text file so double click it and then press CTRL+F and search the word SOVIET and you will see if you have Russian weapons in it. If you don't have you will have to get some from the download section ( look for Russian weapons packs, they are there and explicit). Though if you HAVE Russian weapons in the file, then you will have to rewrite the loadout.ini file. You also should take a good look to the aircraft data.ini file and see what kind of air-to-air missile the plane allows and where (which wing). Russian fighters already have AHM/SAHM/IRM missiles settings on their wings so this won't be a problem. If you want challenge load them with AHM (active radar homing) ADDER missile (AA-12) and heat seeker ARCHER (AA-10A) and I assure you that you will  come back home alive when you meet such a Russian fighter patrole only if you are lucky and very skilled.

Edited July 10, 2017 by UllyB

[yubba]

Flying with the Ruskies now aye ????

[alexis99]

No, Yubba, I need the Russian planes to have some weapons, so they stand a fighting chance when I creep up on them in my F-35.

 

Wrench: Yes to both questions.

 

bazillius: Yes I am redoing all loadout files by hand. I just couldn't understand why someone would release such beautiful Russian aircraft but get the loadout files wrong.

 

UllyB: Yep, got all that. Thanks for taking the trouble to explain it though. It is easy to miss something.

 

Thanks to all of you.

 

So here's a scenario, you might like to ponder:

I check the weapon file and find that the Soviet weapon I want exists and is in service for the correct years.

I use the correct name for the missile in the loadout file on the correct pylon.

I go into the game, select a mission for the correct year, check the loadout and find the weapon I wanted isn't on the pylon, because it's not in the list of available weapons.

Is the list of available weapons determined by the region in which you fly? So that if I'm flying Desert, year 2000, my aircraft won't carry an AA-12 (Full Name: R-77 AA-12 Adder), because the country doesn't have any?

[UllyB]

If it's not in the loadout list , it could mean the followings:

 

- you FORGOT to add them into plane's wing where you want them.

 

- on that specific wing(s) where you want them, there are RESTRICTIONS of some kind (length/diameter/weight of the missile etc).

 

- attachment type is wrong declared on the wing

 

- all is alright but the syntax is wrong (you misspelled a word or the word YOU thing is good , is...not accepted by game's syntax processor thing)

 

- the weapon wasn't exported to the country your plane belongs, so you can't have it.

 

Weapon won't have anything to do with the region you fly. They are just in connection to their service years, attachment types, wings syntax declarations etc

Edited July 12, 2017 by UllyB

[alexis99]

Export. I think that's it.

I'll be back

[alexis99]

MiG-29 Syria version downloaded from here.

When I select a mission to fly it, in Libya or Desert or Desert Storm, I am allowed years 1986-1991

I choose 1991

But look at MiG-29 Data entry:

 

[MissionData]

NationName=Syria

ServiceStartYear=1986

ServiceEndYear=2019

 

It should let me fly 2000, but doesn't

 

 

This is weapon loadout entry, important bits

 

// Station 04 = LeftInnerWing2 - AA10 serie (IRM, SAHM, AHM)

// Station 05 = RightInnerWing2 - AA10 serie (IRM, SAHM, AHM)

 

[AirToAir]

Loadout[04].WeaponType=AA-10E

Loadout[04].Quantity=1

Loadout[05].WeaponType=AA-10E

Loadout[05].Quantity=1

 

This is weapon entry important bits:

 

[WeaponData237]

TypeName=AA-10E

FullName=R-27AE  AA-10 Alamo-E

ModelName=R-27RE

AttachmentType=WP,SOVIET,CHINA

SpecificStationCode=AA10

NationName=SOVIET

StartYear=1991

EndYear=2015

Availability=2

BaseQuantity=4

Exported=TRUE

ExportStartYear=1995

ExportEndYear=2025

ExportAvailability=1

WeaponDataType=1

 

Yep sure enough, I'm flying 1991 so I can have it.

 

I go into Mission, check loadout and everything's there. Hurrah.

 

Looks like export doesn't matter, because that starts in 1995, and the weapon is there.

 

 

Now I go to do what I really wanted.

I choose F-35A, desert, year 2000, intercept.

Among the hardware they send against me are some MiG-29s, Syrian ones.

Guess what, they have no weapons!

Year 2000, check

MiG-29 Syria 1986-2019, includes 2000, check.

AA-10E weapon available 1991- 2015, includes 2000, check.

Exported 1995-2025, includes 2000, check.

No weapons. Easy kill.

 

Thanks for suggestions, UllyB.

[UllyB]

First thing first...it DOESN'T matter which MAP you fly, but WHICH GAME you use. So which one is it ? Let's presume you use SF1 WOI. If you do that, then look in options.ini file (which is in the main WOI folder) for the section:

 

[singleMission]
AircraftType=A-6A
MissionMap=PERSISCHER GOLF
MissionType=RECON
MissionTime=NOON
MissionWeather=SCATTERED
AirActivity=RANDOM
AirDefenseActivity=RANDOM
LoadMission=FALSE
LoadMissionFilename=F-15A_vs_MiG-23MF_(1v1).MSN
MissionYear=1975
StartYear=1950
EndYear=2050
Service=ISRAEL

 

 

Make sure those BOLD dates are related to the years you want, on that map, to  your years your plane is allowed to fly (it's in its data.ini file). I presumed you use a SINGLE PLAYER mission and NOT a campaign mission or a stand-alone built mission. If the end year and start year are these in my example and your plane is allowed, by the entry in its data.ini file, to fly in those limit, you should have no problem doing exactly that. If you can't something is wrong with one of those two files I pointed out.

If you expect some enemy planes to show up, then, in their data.ini files, the time interval must be BETWEEN the bold ones I pointed out in above post. Also make sure you have the MODEL of the missiles you want them to be loaded with. If you don't have the model of the missiles, they won't show up on the aircraft wing.(this was another reason for things going wrong, I forgot about it in previous posts). The missile models (and its files) are in the weapon folder stored. Also the weaponsdata.ini file must be saved in order to make them available.

[alexis99]

Thank you. I'm glad to know it has nothing to do with the map.

All weapon models exist, because when I fly the MiG-29 myself, I can see them on the aircraft and launching.

I'm using WOE: WINGS OVER EUROPE for Strike Fighters 1. Single player mission.

 

Anyway your point about the options file is the answer

Only one aircraft shows under [singleMission], and that's the one I last flew. Fortunately it was the MiG-29.

I changed the MissionYear from 1991 to 2000.

That fixed it.

Thank you.

 

Funnily enough, the Service was down as USAF, so I changed it to SOVIET.

 

Then, after flying the F-35 and encountering the MiG-29, look what happened in the options:

 

[singleMission]

AircraftType=F-35A

MissionMap=LIBYA

MissionType=SWEEP

MissionTime=DUSK

MissionWeather=SCATTERED

AirActivity=HEAVY

AirDefenseActivity=NORMAL

LoadMission=FALSE

LoadMissionFilename=MK101 F35 MiGCAP.MSN

MissionYear=2000

StartYear=1955

EndYear=2015

Service=SOVIET

 

SOVIET?

It obviously keeps whatever you last chose, so I changed it to USAF. It probably has no bearing on anything.

Also look what the start year is:1955. That's not the F-35 start year, I think it retained that from some other aircraft.

 

So clearly what you have to do is give Start Year and EndYear parameters that will encompass the enemy aircraft you wish to encounter.

That's worth remembering.

[UllyB]

DON'T tamper with start and end date !! Those dates are for ALL aircraft and objects in the game! If you change it to 2000 (end year) aircraft made AFTER year 2000 won't be available to fly ! The same if you change the start date, if you have a aircraft that flew BEFORE 1991, you won't be able to fly it. Keep in mind that the larger the limits between start and end date, the more probable you will be able to fly ALL your planes, if their "life" is between that period.

The nation of the aircraft is in its data.ini file. Don't TAMPER with that, too. Do it only if you know what you do. It's hard to understand why someone will play in a game a F-35 belonging to SOVIET nation (except testing and for some fun), or a MIG-35 belonging to USA etc

In SINGLE MISSION section you will find the LAST plane you flew with so keep in mind that is just a temporary way to know what plane you flew the last time and that is all. It doesn't mean anything else or permanent.

Edited July 13, 2017 by UllyB

[yubba]

No, Yubba, I need the Russian planes to have some weapons, so they stand a fighting chance when I creep up on them in my F-35.

 

 

How about leaving the lights on,, and trail some smoke,, creeping with a F-35 you might as well give them shields,and a rear turbo cannon,, you have to excuse me,, watching too much star wars, have a good one.

Edited July 13, 2017 by yubba

[alexis99]

UllyB: I did not fly in a game with an F-35 belonging to a Soviet nation, The game put the Soviet marker in the option file for me. I was asking you why it would do that.

 

"If you change it to 2000 (end year) aircraft made AFTER year 2000 won't be available to fly !" That's obvious. I didn't do that. I left the end year at 2015.

Clearly you can create start and end parameters for any scenario you want, but I did not. The important value is "MissionYear=2000" It defaulted to that after I'd flown an F-35 that year. All I did was select a MiG-29 that wouldn't fly later than 1991 (despite its service year being beyond 2000), then went into options and selected "MissionYear=2000". This allowed the MiG-29 to fly at the same time as an F-35. I did not change anything in the aircraft data files. Not a thing.

 

 

I didn't change the StartDate to 1955, that happened because I tried out a MiG 23, and the option file wrote it in for me. The only figure I manually entered in the option file was "MissionYear=2000". Everything else was written in for me according to what the last aircraft was that I flew in Single Mission.

Try this: Fly a USAF aircraft in Single mission, then fly a Soviet one. In the option file, the Soviet one will now register as "Service=USAF". So I did change that to "Service=SOVIET". Then I flew an F-35 and checked the option file, and the F-35 was now "Service=SOVIET". Presumably I'm supposed to have a pilot for USAF aircraft and one for SOVIET, I'll experiment with that. Do you now understand what I'm saying here? The option file writes some things in for you. 

Yubba: Is the game sophisticated enough to tell the difference between an internal weapon carriage only (Full stealth, low RCS), and an external weapon carriage (Less Stealth, higher RCS)? In reality, once you drop your external weapons, your RCS should plummet. But I note that you only have one RCS entry, which must cover all weapon carriage situations.

Anyway, let me assure you, my F-35 has a low RCS. 

[alexis99]

Having followed all the above information, I now thought it would be fun to see if I could get an AA-12 Adder onto the SU-37 Terminator.

Currently, the only available AIR-AIR weapons in Single Mission are the R-3R (AA-2 ATOLL-C) and the R-60m AA-8 Aphid-B

According to the Option file, I'm doing this:

 

[singleMission]

AircraftType=Su-37 Terminator

MissionMap=LIBYA

MissionType=INTERCEPT

MissionTime=DUSK

MissionWeather=SCATTERED

AirActivity=NORMAL

AirDefenseActivity=NORMAL

LoadMission=FALSE

LoadMissionFilename=MK101 F35 MiGCAP.MSN

MissionYear=2000

StartYear=1990

EndYear=2015

Service=SOVIET

 

Remember key year is 2000.

 

 

So lets look in the Weapon File

Main entries as follows

 

[WeaponData241]

TypeName=AA-12

FullName=R-77 AA-12 Adder

ModelName=R-77

AttachmentType=WP,SOVIET,CHINA

SpecificStationCode=AA12

NationName=Soviet

StartYear=1994

EndYear=2020

Availability=1

BaseQuantity=4

Exported=TRUE

ExportStartYear=2000

ExportEndYear=2020

ExportAvailability=1

 

Yes, year 2000 covered for export.

I changed that using Weapon editor and saved.

 

There's also a folder with the weapon LODs in.

I made sure and used the weapon editor to lock in that information too.

 

Let's look at the aircraft

 

SU-37 TERMINATOR

 

 

[MissionData] 

NationName=SOVIET

ServiceStartYear=2000

ServiceEndYear=2030 

AircraftRole=FIGHTER 

AircraftCapability=DAY_AND_NIGHT 

Availability=RARE

Exported=TRUE 

ExportStartYear=2000

ExportEndYear=2030 

ExportAvailability=RARE

PrimaryRoles=SWEEP,CAP,SEAD,STRIKE 

SecondaryRoles=ESCORT,INTERCEPT,RECON,ANTI_SHIP,ARMED_RECON

NormalMissionRadius=1860 

MaxMissionRadius=4570

Ceiling=18500 

MinBaseSize=SMALL 

 

Yes, active 2000, and in export too.

 

Can it carry an A-12?

Here's a sample weapon station:

 

[LeftStation] 

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION 

StationID=3 

StationGroupID=2

StationType=EXTERNAL 

AttachmentPosition=-6.879,-4.275,-0.24

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0 

EjectVelocity=0.0,0.0,-1.0 

LoadLimit=200 

AllowedWeaponClass=IRM,AHM,ARM,SAHM,2AR,2IR,RCKT 

AttachmentType=WP,SOVIET 

ModelNodeName=L2

PylonMass=86.18 

PylonDragArea=0.02 

 

Looks like it.

 

What does the  Weapon Loadout file think?

 

 

[AirToAirLongRange]

Loadout[01].WeaponType=AA-8B

Loadout[01].Quantity=1

Loadout[02].WeaponType=AA-8B

Loadout[02].Quantity=1

Loadout[03].WeaponType=AA-11EM

Loadout[03].Quantity=1

Loadout[04].WeaponType=AA-11EM

Loadout[04].Quantity=1

Loadout[05].WeaponType=AA-12

Loadout[05].Quantity=1

Loadout[06].WeaponType=AA-12

Loadout[06].Quantity=1

Loadout[07].WeaponType=AA-12

Loadout[07].Quantity=1

Loadout[08].WeaponType=AA-12

Loadout[08].Quantity=1

Loadout[09].WeaponType=AA-12

Loadout[09].Quantity=1

Loadout[10].WeaponType=AA-12

Loadout[10].Quantity=1

Loadout[11].WeaponType=AA-2R

Loadout[11].Quantity=1

Loadout[12].WeaponType=AA-2R

Loadout[12].Quantity=1

 

Seems like there are entries for it.

 

So aircraft single mission 2000, aircraft available 2000, weapon available 2000, weapon folder exists, loadout would like to use it, hardpoints will take it.

So how come it isn't available in an intercept mission, even if I hand-load it myself?

The only AIR-AIR weapons I have a choice of loading are the R-3R (AA-2 ATOLL-C) and the R-60m AA-8 Aphid-B, and the Aphids are already loaded.

What happened to the AA-12?

[yubba]

 

Yubba: Is the game sophisticated enough to tell the difference between an internal weapon carriage only (Full stealth, low RCS), and an external weapon carriage (Less Stealth, higher RCS)? In reality, once you drop your external weapons, your RCS should plummet. But I note that you only have one RCS entry, which must cover all weapon carriage situations.

Anyway, let me assure you, my F-35 has a low RCS. 

That , I couldn't tell you,, but there is a way to test it,, what I learned with the F-117 you could go into a heavily defended area and wouldn't be lit up,, so load up and go into a hot area and see what you can get away with it's to bad we never really did anything with multi player over at hyperlobby then we could see what really is going on with that

[alexis99]

Yubba: I flew the F-117 in FreeFalcon. In terms of visual recognition, there was no difference between day and night. If you created a mission which tasked MiGs to target you, they would find you, because the Sim knew where you were, and told them to attack you. If you just told the MiGs to patrol the area you were flying through, you were stealthy enough to avoid them. I mention this because these Sims are never as sophisticated as you would like. FreeFalcon started out as a fan update on the Falcon Sim, which was never originally designed for you to fly other than the F-16. In the same way, Strike Fighters was never designed with an F-117 in mind, but being open architecture, somebody finally made one. In SF/WOE, you can actually drop into formation with MiGs and they don't see you because of your low RCS. You can drop low over a SAM site and they haven't a clue you are there. The only way to make the F-117 less invisible and hence make the missions more tricky is to raise its RCS. Then you would have to thread the needle around SAM sites to get to your target. Just thought of that, so I may try it

The F-35 has a pretty low RCS, and I may have shifted it lower, but I can see no difference in the enemy's ability to spot you whether you carry weapons External or Internal.

I gave the B-1 Lancer a lower RCS too, because it has an electronic warfare crew to keep you protected, so the only way to emulate that is to lower your RCS. The trouble is we always want to push these sims further than they were intended.

[yubba]

Yubba: I flew the F-117 in FreeFalcon. In terms of visual recognition, there was no difference between day and night

I gave the B-1 Lancer a lower RCS too, because it has an electronic warfare crew to keep you protected, so the only way to emulate that is to lower your RCS. The trouble is we always want to push these sims further than they were intended.

Would you mind explaining how you lowered the B-1's RCS since we can't get the B-2,, I'd like a stealthier bomber,,Please and Thank you should be in order. Do you do any online flying,,if so what and where I'm being nosey to day.

[UllyB]

 

So how come it isn't available in an intercept mission, even if I hand-load it myself?

 

I'll tell you how. You don't have a SpecificStationCode declaration on YOUR wings of the plane where you try to load (manual or via loadout.ini file) an AA-12 missile. So practically, first, the "game" is looking if it is allowed to exist such weapon on your plane's wings. And all this is BECAUSE in the weapon files is specified that AA-12 goes ONLY for a wing where is specificated that AA-12 as..."SpecificStationCode". To make it work you have twoo way, the hard way and the easy way:

- the easy way, delete that line in the weapon's data

- the hard way, specify for EACH wing where you want to have an AA-12 that ONLY that missile goes there.

 

Actually there's a third way...lol, CREATE AA-12 specific stations the wings you want that weapon for your plane.

Edited July 17, 2017 by UllyB

[logan4]

There could be one more thing:

 

LoadLimit=200  <---- basic aa12 varinats have around 175kg weights in the weaponsdata.ini extended range versions have 225.3+kg, check if your aa12ae actually within the limits both in your su37 and your mig29-s.

 

And as UllyB already wrote.. SpecificStationCode is set, actually for all AA12 variant so that has to be there in the data.ini for each station that use it. As he advice create new stations just for the aa12 otherwise would mess up other missile loads as well.

[alexis99]

Yubba. It's in the data file of the aircraft, in the [DetectSystem]

 

So, F-117 (Important entries only)

[DetectSystem]

MaxVisibleDistance=1000.0 //At Night

BaseRCSModifier=-1.0

HeatSignatureModifier=0.002

 

The BaseRCSModifier started out as something like -0.001. You could fly at 20 feet past an AA gun and it wouldn't see you. I tried a plus figure (2.0) and suddenly SAMs could see me, and even enemy aircraft. I wound it back to -1.0, and then the game was more challenging without being suicidal. If I fly below 10,000 ft, SAMs will lock on, but to lose them I just fly up to above 10,000. The only problem is that the AI pilots don't know how to release Paveways, so they dive at the target, get easily spotted and are shot down. Giving them an RTB order is the best bet.

 

This is the B-1B. It's actually stealthier than my new setting for the F-115

[DetectSystem]

MaxVisibleDistance=3000.0

BaseRCSModifier=-0.100000

 

 

And the F-35A

F-35A

[DetectSystem]

MaxVisibleDistance=16500.0

BaseRCSModifier=0.1

HeatSignature=0.002

 

F-35 has a positive RCS, so it is more detectable.

Also note the MaxVisibleDistance. I presume it works like FreeFalcon in that each object has a specific-sized bubble. Once an enemy aircraft enters that bubble, it "sees" the aircraft and can attack. Perhaps the RCS modifies the MaxVisibleDistance.

 

Incidentally, note that the F-117 and F-35 have different terms for Heat Signature (HeatSignatureModifier / HeatSignature). One of them must be wrong.

 

[alexis99]

UllyB, Logan: Thanks that's interesting.

So even though I have this entry in the data file:

 

AllowedWeaponClass=SAHM,AHM,BOMB,EOGB,EOGR,ARM,ASM

 

One would imagine the AA-12 would fit

But because the weapon demands a specific station code for attachment, but can't find one, it won't let me have it in the list.

 

The right thing to do would be to fix the Su37 with a weapon specific entry so the AA-12 goes where it should.

I need to do something like that for ground attack missions too, because although the FAB bomb series is always available, they are never loaded for you if you choose a strike mission. Your Weapon Loadout file asks for them under , but you always have to load them yourself. This means that when you have an intercept mission and you're tasked with stopping some MiG-23s, they aren't carrying bombs, because bombs don't auto-load.

 

Okay, thank you, this is all good information to play with.

I tell you what, though, if I had the talent to build an add-on aircraft like the Su-37, the first thing I would do is hang some AA-12s onto it and go massacre the USAF. And that way, this problemette would have been already noticed, flagged-up  and sorted. Perhaps I should check the support file. It probably has been sorted.

[alexis99]

UllyB, Logan: Yes, thank you. Success. Sorted.

The AA-12 in the Weapon folder says StationSpecificCode=AA12

So I copied the entry and added it into the SU37 data file for weapon stations 5 to 8. i.e:StationSpecificCode=AA12

I checked that the loadout file had AA-12 marked for stations 5 to 8.

I went into the Sim, chose the SU-37 and there in the Loadout the AA-12 was now available.

In an intercept mission the AA-12 is autoloaded for you; in a strike mission, the weapon is available should you choose to load it on those stations.

Brilliant.

 

I shall make full use of this knowledge.

Thank you.

[yubba]

 

Yubba. It's in the data file of the aircraft, in the [DetectSystem]

 

So, F-117 (Important entries only)

[DetectSystem]

MaxVisibleDistance=1000.0 //At Night

BaseRCSModifier=-1.0

HeatSignatureModifier=0.002

 

The BaseRCSModifier started out as something like -0.001. You could fly at 20 feet past an AA gun and it wouldn't see you. I tried a plus figure (2.0) and suddenly SAMs could see me, and even enemy aircraft. I wound it back to -1.0, and then the game was more challenging without being suicidal. If I fly below 10,000 ft, SAMs will lock on, but to lose them I just fly up to above 10,000. The only problem is that the AI pilots don't know how to release Paveways, so they dive at the target, get easily spotted and are shot down. 

 

 

I got a fix for the diving bombers it's in the B-52 campaign thread I got up,, sorry I'm lazy to quote it here, I forgot what I did but the B-52s don't dive bomb any more,, and thank you for the info. well that was a little vague,, go to data of your aircraft look for Ai level bombing and you can set the altitude you want your wingmen to drop it will be in meters. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by yubba

[alexis99]

Thanks, Yubba. I'll go seek the dive-bomb fix. Sorry for late reply, but I've been away.