Siemens-Schuckert D.I uploaded

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

I have uploaded a new plane - the Siemens-Schuckert D.I. It was a copy of the Nieuport 17, with a different engine and  a few other minor differences. Production was delayed so it wasn't used very much on the Western Front. It saw more service on the Eastern Front.

My upload includes a 3 color camo skin, a full set of number decals, and a fully functional cockpit. My skinning templates are included. Ojcar has made a new FM for this plane, it flies a little heavier than the Nieuport, but has a slightly more powerful engine.

I have also included a sound file recorded by Nixou.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Stephen1918

[Wilches 1,172]

Nice move! Another excelent subject. I love your models. They're solid and trouble free. Thanks!

[extremeone 13]

Very Nice. Thanks.

[Eugene2 327]

Very beautiful model. Thanks.

Maybe I ask a stupid question. Exscellent Nieuport XVII (like Nieuport XXIV etc.) have a "flat" 2D- propellor. Your Nieupors and SS DI have 3-D propellors. Is it possible to "trasplantate" 3-D propellors into another Nieupors - XVII or XXIV ?

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

4 hours ago, Eugene2 said:

Very beautiful model. Thanks.

Maybe I ask a stupid question. Exscellent Nieuport XVII (like Nieuport XXIV etc.) have a "flat" 2D- propellor. Your Nieupors and SS DI have 3-D propellors. Is it possible to "trasplantate" 3-D propellors into another Nieupors - XVII or XXIV ?

I'm afraid not. The props and spinners are part of the model built by the modder. In fairness, my props and spinners use about twice as many polygons than the flat ones do and probably slow the game down a tiny bit.

[Crawford 570]

Thank you, Stephen. A very nice airplane turned out. 

These airplanes were built quite a lot (250 planes were ordered, how many are completed - it is for certain unknown, presumably under two hundred) and they enjoyed a good reputation among pilots. But by the spring of 1917, when mass deliveries began (the earliest - in February 1917 in Jasta 7), the aircraft, of course, is already out of date. Although they were absolutely accurate in combat units, most were sent to flight schools.
Four variants of color can be seen on the photo. But first you need to know whether this is an early or late airplane? If with a spinner (which also had two kinds) - then green-brown.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Crawford

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

I don't know if this is the early or late version. there were also two different kinds of tail skids. When I come across conflicting reference material, I just make the version I like best.

The Siemens-Schuckert D.I was well liked by the pilots who flew them, but there are reports that they were often mistaken for French planes (since they were virtually identical) and sometimes took damage from friendly fire.

When the Fokker DR1 came out, the SSW-D1s in the flight schools were used to train German pilots for flying rotary engine planes.

[+VonS 1,424]

A beautiful plane indeed, many thanks for this one Stephen. A few other colors for the D.1 that our gentlemen-flyers might be interested in if they enjoy skinning.

Von S

 

[Crawford 570]

On 24.07.2018 at 6:28 AM, VonS said:

A beautiful plane indeed, many thanks for this one Stephen. A few other colors for the D.1 that our gentlemen-flyers might be interested in if they enjoy skinning.

This is a very romantic paint scheme!

[Crawford 570]

On 29.06.2018 at 10:07 PM, Stephen1918 said:

I have uploaded a new plane - the Siemens-Schuckert D.I. It was a copy of the Nieuport 17, with a different engine and  a few other minor differences.

This is not quite true. We cannot call a SSW D.I a direct copy of the Nieuport 17, both aircraft differed quite strongly not only in detail, but also in geometry. The Germans retained the scheme, but the design was changed noticeably. First of all - a large diameter propeller for a low-revolution bi-rotary engine. This forced to increase the length of the landing gear struts, as you correctly point out. In fact, there were much more differences from Nie.17. To save the centering (CG) had to shorten the cabane struts, so the upper wing on the SSW is set much lower than on the French aircraft. The wing/stabilizer surfaces is also slightly reduced according to the new weight distribution. And "other minor differences" (such as steel interplane Vee struts instead of wooden, another tail skid, etc.). ))

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

You'll notice that my SSW D.I incorporates all the changes you mentioned, as well as a different shape to the rudder, and different cross-section in the fuselage. You can even see the steel tubing framework in the cockpit view. The V-struts were steel tubing, but they had a wooden fairing attached to reduce drag, so they didn't have to tape the struts like the French did.

I still call it a copy because the Germans started by studying the Nieuport 17, but as you say, there were many differences in the German version.

[Crawford 570]

The further, the more I love this plane!

In the photo - a small SSW D.I (early) against the background of a giant DFW R.I aircraft, which was also used on the Eastern Front in summer 1917.

[Silberpfeil 363]

Great historical photo (almost looks Photoshopped!), Crawford - never saw that one!  Any idea where it was originally taken?

And I've been remiss to not add my appreciation to Stephen1918 for his model of this interesting aircraft.  Thank you!  

[Crawford 570]

3 hours ago, Silberpfeil said:

Great historical photo (almost looks Photoshopped!), Crawford - never saw that one!  Any idea where it was originally taken?

No, this is not a Photoshop. Such an aircraft actually existed. True, it made only one combat flight and crashed during the second. Details and more pictures - here:

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww1/dfwr1.html

https://vikond65.livejournal.com/636081.html#cutid1

 

[Crawford 570]

Here you can see the work principle of the Siemens-Halske Sh.III bi-rotary engine - the further development of the Sh.I engine. I wanted to post this image here, but the site does not skip files more than 3 MB:

https://vikond65.livejournal.com/732908.html#cutid1

We see that the propeller rotates to the right of the pilot (a propeller of right rotation). This means that during the flight the plane turns left (this is what we see in the model by Stephen). A powerful engine with a considerable mass of rotating parts gave a rather sensitive gyroscopic effect, not only with maneuvering, but also with changes in speed. In rotary engines, this effect was very significant, because to the reactive torque of the propeller was added the inertia of the heavy engine (it rotated like a huge flywheel!).

In this case, the reactive propeller torque was compensated to some extent by the opposite rotation of the engine. Obviously, the SSW D.I unfolding moment was not as strong as the Nieuport-17 with a conventional rotary engine, that is, the German plane was easier to pilot.

But my question is not about this. Now the SSW D.I propeller (and some other planes, like a Sikorsky S-16) stops dead when the engine is damaged or the "stop engine" keys are pressed, . How can we make that the propeller doesn't stop immediately, but does a few more rotations before stopping? By manipulating the DATA.ini, I did not succeed. So, we need to make changes to the LOD-file of the model?

[+VonS 1,424]

4 hours ago, Crawford said:

But my question is not about this. Now the SSW D.I propeller (and some other planes, like a Sikorsky S-16) stops dead when the engine is damaged or the "stop engine" keys are pressed, . How can we make that the propeller doesn't stop immediately, but does a few more rotations before stopping? By manipulating the DATA.ini, I did not succeed. So, we need to make changes to the LOD-file of the model?

This is most likely LOD-related. Rpms at idle can be manipulated to some extent using the slow and idle settings, but I doubt this will cure the problem.

For example, numbers in my tweaked FM for the SSW D.1 are:

SlowPropRPM=200
FastPropRPM=750
MaxPropRPM=1000
IdlePropRPM=300

I often like to have the idle number slightly higher than the slow entry, for better prop rotation animation (more realistic). You can try switching the values to see if it will solve the problem, 300 for slow, and 200 for idle. Fast and max prop entries should be left alone or they will upset the realistic top speeds and climb qualities of the aircraft, among other things.

Happy flying,

Von S

Edit: further info. on the Halske engines (link to a post by the venerable Dan-San Abbott on differences between the Sh.I and Sh.III/IIIa series of engines):

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13891&postcount=5

Edited August 14, 2018 by VonS
Added info.

[Crawford 570]

20 hours ago, VonS said:

This is most likely LOD-related.

Yes, I came to the same conclusion. When the engine stops dead, this is completely unrealistic, especially when it comes to a rotary engine. For example, choose Geezer's Nie.24 and in the flight press the "CTRL+I" keys. You will immediately see the difference.

[Crawford 570]

P.S. The most interesting thing is that the propeller does not stop short at other planes made by Stephen. We can recall his Nie.12, SPAD-11/16, Roland D.II, for example. Apparently, in the case of SSW D.I , S-16 and the SPAD A.2 )) , Steven simply "forgot" to fasten to them this effect.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Crawford

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

There is nothing in the 3D model that controls the speed of the engine animations. The speed is controlled by the game engine.

The model maker creates several versions of the prop (static prop, slow prop, fast prop, damaged prop) and attaches them to the prop shaft. The game engine spins the prop shaft and calculates the RPM of the engine based on the throttle setting (controlled by the user) and the settings in the [Engine] portion of the plane's data.ini. Then the game switches the version of the prop based on the RPM settings in the [Engine] settings.

I didn't notice the problem until after I read the postings by Crawford and VonS. I don't know what settings in the engine data control how fast the engine speeds up/slows down. You could probably get some change by playing with the RPM settings that VonS mentioned.

[Gatling20 753]

I am not sure, but the [Engine] variable ThrottleRate= might have an effect on this.

I love this little aircraft and its prop doesn't trouble me, but for people who want to explore this issue, try some different numbers like ThrottleRate=0.1 and ThrottleRate=0.9, and see if there is a difference.

[Crawford 570]

On 16.08.2018 at 12:08 PM, Stephen1918 said:

There is nothing in the 3D model that controls the speed of the engine animations. The speed is controlled by the game engine.

The model maker creates several versions of the prop (static prop, slow prop, fast prop, damaged prop) and attaches them to the prop shaft. The game engine spins the prop shaft and calculates the RPM of the engine based on the throttle setting (controlled by the user) and the settings in the [Engine] portion of the plane's data.ini. Then the game switches the version of the prop based on the RPM settings in the [Engine] settings.

I didn't notice the problem until after I read the postings by Crawford and VonS. I don't know what settings in the engine data control how fast the engine speeds up/slows down. You could probably get some change by playing with the RPM settings that VonS mentioned.

It looks like you're right. I was playing with Geezer's Junkers J.I (also known as a "tin donkey") - I tried to get its control surfaces, landing gear and propeller to work correctly. And I noticed that initially the effect of propeller untwist was absent, but then it appeared.

[+VonS 1,424]

On 8/16/2018 at 3:08 AM, Stephen1918 said:

There is nothing in the 3D model that controls the speed of the engine animations. The speed is controlled by the game engine.

The model maker creates several versions of the prop (static prop, slow prop, fast prop, damaged prop) and attaches them to the prop shaft. The game engine spins the prop shaft and calculates the RPM of the engine based on the throttle setting (controlled by the user) and the settings in the [Engine] portion of the plane's data.ini. Then the game switches the version of the prop based on the RPM settings in the [Engine] settings.

I didn't notice the problem until after I read the postings by Crawford and VonS. I don't know what settings in the engine data control how fast the engine speeds up/slows down. You could probably get some change by playing with the RPM settings that VonS mentioned.

Have now double-checked my tweaked data ini for the SSW D.1 and it is indeed possible to solve the problem with correct rpm tweaks for slow and idle prop...the tweaks of 200 and 300 for slow and idle that are included in the modded FM don't display the static prop problem. Reversing the values, however, to 300 and 200 for slow and idle recreates the problem when the engine is throttled down to zero. For most other aircraft it's fine to have a slow number lower than idle, for better representation of prop spinning.

Von S

P.S. Results may vary across FE1 and FEgold (my comments apply to FE2).

Edited August 18, 2018 by VonS
Added info.