Used FM units of measure ?

[+Coupi 4,379]

Hello, 

Please, 

Could you tell me that they are the units of measurement used in the data.ini file of the aircraft ? Mainly I think about the flight characteristic data !

Identifying them is not obvious...

Thank you,  

Coupi.

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Coupi

[+acesfakia 1,198]

Be more specific....!!  One photo is like 1000...word's.....  

What they    are   or where    they are   ?   

Why they are  used in the data.ini file     of the aircraft       ?      or where is the line..with them    ? 

Is the real measurement  ....or ...1/72   scale...?       The Game fly/uses     the plane  like ''real'....or.....simulate ...close to them...so need the meter's ? 

Or where are they ..and   why .......? ?  For each part from the Model ...Nose,Tail,...etc  in the data.ini is diferent .Is the dimension from that part  like this   Fuselage ....above         !      I think you are looking ...this  dimension's....

Edited March 3, 2019 by acesfakia

[+Coupi 4,379]

37 minutes ago, acesfakia said:

Be more specific....!!  One photo is like 1000...word's.....  

What they    are   or where    they are   ?   

Why they are  used in the data.ini file     of the aircraft       ?      or where is the line..with them    ? 

Is the real measurement  ....or ...1/72   scale...?       The Game fly/uses     the plane  like ''real'....or.....simulate ...close to them...so need the meter's ? 

Or where are they ..and   why .......? ?  For each part from the Model ...Nose,Tail,...etc  in the data.ini is diferent .Is the dimension from that part  like this   Fuselage ....above         !      I think you are looking ...this  dimension's....

Hello,

Many thanks !!! 

Ok for the dimensions : the meter is used.

This morning I had a look and I think that the kilo is used for the weights. For speeds and ranges, this should be the kilometer.

And about the performance data ? CLa, Cmq, Cmad, data tables, etc... difficult for me to imagine their purpose ! 

Best regards,

Coupi.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Coupi

[+acesfakia 1,198]

The Game use Feet and Meter....etc...!  The 3d max..also ...use both so you can built your model.   etc...

Speed also both.

 

CLa and Cmq .....   I think   is   for  aerodynamic   Mach tables  ...   !!     Example  if you change the ...CLa and Cmq Mach tables for the stabilazer...you will...turn ..like ..UFO...if you want...or something like that.

I think ...Caesar   here   was make something..like ..that change's ... CLa and Cmq    !!!!

 

RCS and IR entry           =        presume reduces the radar and heat signatures of the plane    stealth...    FastCargo   explained it in this

BaseRCSModifier=0.0000005
HeatSignatureModifier=0.0010

===================================CLa, Cmq, Cmad, data tables, etc..=================================================

and    from    .......      Fubar512        ..................

CL0            Lift coefficient at zero angle of attack (AOA)

CLa            Lift coefficient due to AOA  

CD0            Zero-lift drag coefficient

CDL            Drag coefficient due to lift

(induced drag effect)

Cmq              Pitching moment due to pitch rate

(pitch damping)

Cmad           Pitching moment due to AOA rate

(aero interaction between wings and horiz tail)

Cyb              Side force due to sideslip

Cyp               Side force due to roll rate

Cyr                 Side force due to yaw rate

Clb                     Roll moment due to sideslip

Clp                      Roll moment due to roll rate

(roll damping)

Clr                         Roll moment due to yaw rate

Cnb                      Yaw moment due to sideslip

Cnp                     Yaw moment due to roll rate

Cnr                       Yaw moment due to yaw rate

(yaw damping)

CLiftdc                 Lift due to control surface deflection

CDdc                   Drag due to control surface deflection

Cydc               Side force due to control surface deflection

Cldc                 Roll moment due to control surface deflection

Cmdc              Pitch moment due to control surface deflection

Cndc                   Yaw moment due to control surface deflection

DeltaStallAlpha Increase in max angle-of-attack before stall

Xac X-location of aerodynamic center

Ymac=Mean Area Chord at "Y" axis

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by acesfakia

[Wrench 9,800]

iirc, jet thrust is in Newton Meters; not sure about prop planes --?. also, iirc, fuel weights are kg, for internal tanks.

all other physical measurements are Metric. have been since day one.

some speed statements MAY be in Meters/Sec (MPS). I think those are the ones in the -FlightData- section at the top.

Quote

Or where are they ..and   why .......? ?  For each part from the Model ...Nose,Tail,...etc  in the data.ini is diferent .Is the dimension from that part  like this   Fuselage ....above         !      I think you are looking ...this  dimension's....

you're taking about individual meshes, and how the interact with each other.

In the image below, for the Harrier 1, you can see the blue bounding box, with IS the actual mesh X/Y/Z parameters, and the green Hit box (and the fact they don't even match!! Seen this plenty of time of stock aircraft, too)

IIRC this correctly, the Min/Max describes the extents of the bounding box, the actual size of the component. Obviously, the Hit Box (green) is where damage is taken (collision points)

From the fuselage section of the 3W Harrier 1:

MinExtentPosition=-0.74,-6.68,-1.00
MaxExtentPosition= 0.74, 1.26, 0.97
CollisionPoint[001]= 0.00,-6.67,-0.20
CollisionPoint[002]= 0.00,-2.61,-0.93
CollisionPoint[003]= 0.00, 1.25, 1.00
CollisionPoint[004]= 0.00,-6.68, 0.70
CollisionPoint[005]= 0.54,-4.98,-0.40
CollisionPoint[006]=-0.54,-4.98,-0.40

as you can see, there IS a tail mesh, but the Fuselage HB has been extended to cover it. Kinda weak, imho.

 

[+Cliff7600 1,148]

11 hours ago, Coupi said:

For speeds and ranges, this should be the kilometer.

 

As Wrench said, speed are in meters per second (Km/h divided by 3,6 = m/s)
Not only in the flightdata, but also in deploy and retract values (flaps, landing gear, airbrakes)
unless it's Mach values (variable geometry wings, and other stuff)

Ceiling is in meters, and range in kilometers (I think...)

Fuel in kilograms
1 kg -> 2,2 lbs
1 liter of fuel -> 0.78 kg ("Thirdwire game fuel" density)
1 US gal -> 3.78541 L
1 Imp gal -> 4.546 L 
and what I like the most is to calculate the hitbox of the fuel tank to keep it within the 3D model while having the right amount of fuel ^^ (MinMaxExtent in meters -> Liters)

In fact, metric units all the way in the data.ini files.

In the cockpit.ini file it's different, there's both (feet, lbs, knots, nautical miles / meters, kilo, liters, kmph...) and it needs to be specified.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Cliff7600

[+Cliff7600 1,148]

Hey, we didn't talk about "massfraction" !

As it is a fraction, there's no unit of measure. It uses the EmptyMass= entry in kilogram.
I noticed that the TW model data.ini don't have massfraction value for ONE component, the fuselage.
So I guess that each component has its massfraction value and what's left goes to the fuselage.

Then, there could be 2 issues :
- The total of all massfraction values is not equal to 1
The aircraft will weight more (or less) than the given EmptyMass value.

And that's why only ONE component shouldn't have massfraction value, the fuselage.
But, the fuselage should also have the right weight, so you have to do the maths and check ALL component weight values (EmptyMass * massfraction = weight in KG).
It's easy to find the weight of a J79 jet engine, it's more difficult to guess some other parts (propellers, horizontal stabs...)

- There's more than one component that didn't have a massfraction value
Then, the fuselage will share its weight with the pitot tube or the pylons deleted from the 3D model... and it will affect the flight model.

exemple :

Component[010]=RefuelProbe

[RefuelProbe]
ParentComponentName=Nose
ModelNodeName=Refuel_Probe
ShowFromCockpit=TRUE
MassFraction=0.0
I want to see the refuel probe from the cockpit view, but I don't want the refuel probe to weight 1700 lbs !

or

Component[010]=Remove

[Remove]
ParentComponentName=Fuselage
ModelNodeName=boîte01
DestroyedNodeName=Boîte01
HasAeroCoefficients=FALSE
I wanted to have the antenna deleted from the 3D model, but the game will give the mesh "boîte01" the weight of +6000 lbs 
luckily, the mesh is on the fuselage, and not at the end of the nose, or worse at a wingtip...

My thoughts :
Each component must have a mass fraction value, unless there's only ONE left that will take the all the rest of the weight, the fuselage.
If you do some editing to make meshes shown or not, be sure the massfraction value is realistic.

---------------------------------------

If you change the EmptyMass value, because the C version is heavier than the A, then all massfraction values must be checked.
Maybe the stronger airframe will weight more, but if the vertical tail is the same its massfraction value must be adapted.
 

exemple :

F-101A
EmptyMass=11420.00

[VertTail]
...
MassFraction=0.0365
-> 416.83 kg

F-101C
EmptyMass=11920.00 (+500 kg)

[VertTail]
...
MassFraction=0.035
-> 417.2 kg

If the F-101A and F-101C share the exact same vertical tail, it's Ok (370 grams error)
If the F-101C vertical tail is heavier than the F-101A one, then it's wrong.

Thanks for reading !

[+Coupi 4,379]

9 hours ago, Cliff7600 said:

Hey, we didn't talk about "massfraction" !

As it is a fraction, there's no unit of measure. It uses the EmptyMass= entry in kilogram.
I noticed that the TW model data.ini don't have massfraction value for ONE component, the fuselage.
So I guess that each component has its massfraction value and what's left goes to the fuselage.

Then, there could be 2 issues :
- The total of all massfraction values is not equal to 1
The aircraft will weight more (or less) than the given EmptyMass value.

And that's why only ONE component shouldn't have massfraction value, the fuselage.
But, the fuselage should also have the right weight, so you have to do the maths and check ALL component weight values (EmptyMass * massfraction = weight in KG).
It's easy to find the weight of a J79 jet engine, it's more difficult to guess some other parts (propellers, horizontal stabs...)

- There's more than one component that didn't have a massfraction value
Then, the fuselage will share its weight with the pitot tube or the pylons deleted from the 3D model... and it will affect the flight model.

exemple :

Component[010]=RefuelProbe

[RefuelProbe]
ParentComponentName=Nose
ModelNodeName=Refuel_Probe
ShowFromCockpit=TRUE
MassFraction=0.0
I want to see the refuel probe from the cockpit view, but I don't want the refuel probe to weight 1700 lbs !

or

Component[010]=Remove

[Remove]
ParentComponentName=Fuselage
ModelNodeName=boîte01
DestroyedNodeName=Boîte01
HasAeroCoefficients=FALSE
I wanted to have the antenna deleted from the 3D model, but the game will give the mesh "boîte01" the weight of +6000 lbs 
luckily, the mesh is on the fuselage, and not at the end of the nose, or worse at a wingtip...

My thoughts :
Each component must have a mass fraction value, unless there's only ONE left that will take the all the rest of the weight, the fuselage.
If you do some editing to make meshes shown or not, be sure the massfraction value is realistic.

---------------------------------------

If you change the EmptyMass value, because the C version is heavier than the A, then all massfraction values must be checked.
Maybe the stronger airframe will weight more, but if the vertical tail is the same its massfraction value must be adapted.
 

exemple :

F-101A
EmptyMass=11420.00

[VertTail]
...
MassFraction=0.0365
-> 416.83 kg

F-101C
EmptyMass=11920.00 (+500 kg)

[VertTail]
...
MassFraction=0.035
-> 417.2 kg

If the F-101A and F-101C share the exact same vertical tail, it's Ok (370 grams error)
If the F-101C vertical tail is heavier than the F-101A one, then it's wrong.

Thanks for reading !

Ok ! I didn't know this... many thanks ! 

[+acesfakia 1,198]

...οκ ...!!!  All....of you , ...you are Great  !!!       Is somewhere....a ..text document...or something like that.....for person like me...to learn ?  How about with photo's/ pic's   Like  Wrench  did it    .......  here ?     If not...is easy ...someone...expert to make it  so we will have it in the DL section      ?  ?   WILL BE GREAT. Thank you.

[Wrench 9,800]

The image is just a screen cap of Mue's Lod Viewer. One of the best tools EVER invented for this game.

and now to muddy the waters further....two words..

EmptyInertia

how is THAT figured out, and what does it mean?

 

 

[+mue 715]

There is a document for sf1, but I think most also applies to sf2:

https://combatace.com/forums/topic/92182-requested-strike-fighter-editing-info-document/

[+acesfakia 1,198]

EmptyInertia=

measures the extent       to which an object resists rotational acceleration                  about a particular axis,             and is the rotational analogue to mass    ? 

https://books.google.gr/books?id=6gnO9XoeT5cC&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=Empty+Inertia&source=bl&ots=i_GsxY3Fvp&sig=ACfU3U3XqYKhCKZ2UUHqeOg2Lk4PXX31NA&hl=el&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwji0v6IlungAhXFCewKHdbyB40Q6AEwDXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Empty Inertia&f=false

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by acesfakia
EmptyInertia=