160 and Support?

[rotton50 19]

When members of the EAW community write misleading things like this we will remain silent.

" This sim is very daunting, to any newbie, and needlessly so. A well constructed, and well-written TUTORIAL, specifically written for NEWBIES might be of great benefit.

All you old-timers are familiar with this sim, and how to set it just the way you want it. That is NOT so easy for a Newbie, and I reckon they will blow-off the game if it is too hard for them to play. Yes, all the setting-up is second-nature to old-timers, but to newbies, it is a confusing, daunting process.

If you want this game to get wide-scale use, then write instructions intended for people that have ZERO familiarity with the game.
V1.60 is a great sim, but the instructions for menu choices MUST be better written, and included within every download.

Installing the game is sufficiently difficult to discourage most new users, sad to say. The fault is theirs, in that respect.

Setting up the game, once installed, is another matter, and that process desperately needs a well-written tutorial.

Submitted in all helpfulness."

Laughably NOT helpful.

When the misinformation related to the 1.6 development line ceases, we will be thrilled to help.

We need more modders to keep the game alive but we will not do so in the current environment.

Edited August 28, 2019 by rotton50

[VonBeerhofen 63]

What current environment? This guy is just asking for help and offering his for free !

VonBeerhofen

Edited August 28, 2019 by VonBeerhofen

[MarkEAW 63]

Aw man, Rotton's punishing me (everyone) from getting a proper and new help doc. Because he thinks there is mis information with something to do with 160, when in fact I am informing them (and others) of the issues at hand to help.
See, because you Rotton don't want to address them for what they are, doesn't mean its mis information, when in fact its helpful info for everyone.

Look, you haven't help me since I been here 5 years ago or whatever, but what is my mistake is I keep having hope for you. I put that on my self.
Its simple, I tried to show you your ways a few years ago and now even when the SimHQ moderator trys to help you understand things in recent times, you just don't get it either from him and consider it as an attack on you, when no one is attacking you really at all. lol

So you come over here, which is fine, but isn't this neighborhood a little out of your way.
I'd love to have a helpful you, but your not helpful in any fashion.

and you mucked up my thread too, I'm not happy with that. :D

 

 

 

[rotton50 19]

I have nothing to add to my comment.

I will let YOUR return comments speak for me.

[VonBeerhofen 63]

Huh? Nothing to add to my comment either, :)

VonBeerhofen

[MarkEAW 63]

okay, I love you to Rotton.

[Jel 37]

Mark I have a problem with some of the things you have written in my threads at SimHQ which are simply not true

You tell people that UAW160 is difficult to install for a newbie.

Well if that is the case lets us compare what an EAW newbie needs to do to install EAWPro, and UAW160

UAW160:

1. Download a self-installing file from a link and run it.
The user now has a working installation with an exe, an ETO theatre and a default planeset

EAWPro:

1. Obtain a 1.2 installation and run it.
2. Copy the EAW folder.
3. Download a zipfile from a link and put it in the copy of the EAW folder.
4.  Extract the files.
The user now has a working installation with an exe, an ETO theatre and a default planeset.

Neither installation process is difficult, so why do you keep telling people that installing 160 is difficult?

If the newbie wants to extend his UAW installation he downloads another self installer, runs it in his "UAW160" folder, and now has several theatres, several planesets and the "PlaneSetExeTheatreSwitchV3.exe" file-manager which is a simple to use utility which allows him to pick a theatre, a plane-set, the version of the eaw.exe of his choice, and then launch the game.

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Jel

[MarkEAW 63]

I understand Jel. But Did I say something about having to install it is difficult?
If I did the only thing I can think of is that adding all the 7z zips was a bit time consuming. I do remember That there was a problem with the first two 7z needing a third to get it to run, but the instructions didn't say so.

But as far as complaining that its hard to install, I just don't remember saying that. I know I mentioned the difficulty of the frontend for me returning to it over a period of time, and a friend didnt like it either.
Could you link the SimHQ or CombatACE thread where I mentioned the install process was difficult so I can properly respond?

[Jel 37]

Accepted. I posted from memory and on checking I had misinterpreted a couple of things that you wrote.

The third 7-zip that you referred to installs the visual basic runtimes. Many users' PCs have them already installed, so it is not needed, and if a user only wants the ETO set-up from the first 7-zip there is no need for them at all.

[RIBob 39]

On 8/28/2019 at 7:15 AM, rotton50 said:

When members of the EAW community write misleading things like this we will remain silent.

" This sim is very daunting, to any newbie, and needlessly so. A well constructed, and well-written TUTORIAL, specifically written for NEWBIES might be of great benefit.

All you old-timers are familiar with this sim, and how to set it just the way you want it. That is NOT so easy for a Newbie, and I reckon they will blow-off the game if it is too hard for them to play. Yes, all the setting-up is second-nature to old-timers, but to newbies, it is a confusing, daunting process.

If you want this game to get wide-scale use, then write instructions intended for people that have ZERO familiarity with the game.
V1.60 is a great sim, but the instructions for menu choices MUST be better written, and included within every download.

Installing the game is sufficiently difficult to discourage most new users, sad to say. The fault is theirs, in that respect.

Setting up the game, once installed, is another matter, and that process desperately needs a well-written tutorial.

Submitted in all helpfulness."

Laughably NOT helpful.

When the misinformation related to the 1.6 development line ceases, we will be thrilled to help.

We need more modders to keep the game alive but we will not do so in the current environment.

I stand by my opinions, and reject the inaccurate categorization of my remarks as "misinformation".  While v1.6 is a fine sim, it's also fair to say that it is more difficult to install than most other sims, particularly for someone with scant experience concerning installing sims--IOW, a Newbie.

Be that as it may, and there is obviously room for disagreement with the above, what is less disputable is the lack of a decent Tutorial concerning how to select scenarios, select aircraft, and so forth.  In other words, the user interface (Front End) could be modified slightly to make it more intuitive and user-friendly.  Along with slightly redesigned Front End, and a well-written tutorial for same, V1.60 would be, IMHO, vastly more attractive to most new users, and more easily played by even some experienced users.  Ideally, such a tutorial on how to best use the Front End of the game would NOT be a "README" tucked-away within the game folder, but something that the User cannot possibly ignore, as well as something that most users will understand.

Again, V1.6 is a fine sim, but there is no sim so wonderful that there is no room for improvement.  

Granted, the above is simply my personal opinion, and some will dispute it.  Fair enough.  Hopefully, the obviously helpful nature of my suggestions and proposed solution for some problems (as I perceive them) will be apparent to most fair-minded readers.

[Jel 37]

Quote

Be that as it may, and there is obviously room for disagreement with the above, what is less disputable is the lack of a decent Tutorial concerning how to select scenarios, select aircraft, and so forth.

Absolute garbage

There are three lists.
1. Clicking a planeset lists the planes and loads the paths to the skin files and the FM files for the exe to read.
2. Clicking the exe list selects and loads the exe you want to use.
3. Clicking a theatre selects the theatre you want to use

Clicking "Launch EAW" launches the game.

Four mouseclicks, but you want a tutorial?

Sorry Mark, but ill-informed posts like this require a response.
 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Jel

[MarkEAW 63]

I didn't write that quote, but I agree to it.

Usually for every feedback that you get you should count more people are having the same issues.
You guys must learn to take feedback as a good thing, even if you disagree with it.
Thats how you improve something, In the case your frontend needs improvement, it needs details descriptions and the images you also can't provide.

I said at least three times over the years I was having problems with it, to no avail, I try to help with feedback , but you codegroup fellas get all wound up for no reason.

My suggestion to RIBob and others if your having issues with the frontend is to forget 160 and the like and move onto the more effective in game frontends within EAWs. 1.2 or EAWPRO or any hexedited ones.
I have moved on myself, however if I feel I have enough energy in the end of the day, I may tackle the external frontend from time to time.
You see 140 was so so for difficulty, but the single line descriptions in each category just is not enough to keep me a happy flyer.

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by MarkEAW
spelling, clarify.

[MarkEAW 63]

I can also say, whom ever is happy with 160's external frontend, and have come a custom to it, and use it often and therefore remember the details you discover but not provided, then by all means I suggest you use and fly 160.

I personally think all the work done on EAW is fantastic, and should continue, I even attempted to help those interested in the CodeGroups packaged version with a help document decribing the features of that version. However I have only so much time and the support was nearly non existent for new users, and to me, so I moved on to supporting EAW and EAWPRO more often as I get feedback and support from those people involved.

Jel has an install tutorial at SimHQ for 160, I think it was revised to fix some errors in it, but the point is, installing it is not the real issue.

[Jel 37]

Just consider how 160 actually works

The 160 exe looks for three files.

1. A "Dir.set" file in the root folder which is a list of places where it will find the files it needs for the theatre. This came into play when 1.28c was released.
2. A "PDir.set" file in the "Gamedata" folder which is a list of places where it will find the files it needs for the aircraft skins.
3. A "FMDir.set" file in the "Gamedata" folder which is a list of places where it will find the files it needs for the aircraft flight models.

"PDir.set" and "FMDir.set" files were first used in 1.28E

So, since 1.28E we have used file-managers to put these three files in the appropriate places to allow users to select different theatres and planesets.

In my opinion the "PlaneSetExeTheatreSwitchV3.exe" is the easiest of all of them to use. Nobody is suggesting that any of the previous ones were easier, or that there are difficulties with them, so why are people raising ill-founded concerns about using the "PlaneSetExeTheatreSwitchV3.exe" ?

Can anyone suggest a better way to put these three files in the right places?

[Jel 37]

Here we have the 1.29 file-manager in operation:

It does exactly the same thing as the 160 version.

[MarkEAW 63]

Its the single line naming description I belive that is the problem. IDK I know if you had descriptions it would be better. But by how much is the question.

But I don't know what to do other than have a proper in game frontend,  personelly thats my belief. Which can't happen at this point, i know that.

You may have pushed away RIBob, he had more to say I'm sure, not sure he'll say anything new now, given the prevouse few post here and at SimHQ.

[RIBob 39]

5 hours ago, MarkEAW said:

Its the single line naming description I belive that is the problem. IDK I know if you had descriptions it would be better. But by how much is the question.

But I don't know what to do other than have a proper in game frontend,  personelly thats my belief. Which can't happen at this point, i know that.

You may have pushed away RIBob, he had more to say I'm sure, not sure he'll say anything new now, given the prevouse few post here and at SimHQ.

Oh, I will still make comments from time-to time.  Whether my comments are ill--received is not my problem.  Everything I say is intended for the betterment of the overall sim, regardless of how it is received.   I think most fair-minded people will perceive my comments as well-intentioned,  and constructive.  I don't really care how the others consider them.  

I may be right, I may be wrong, but I have NO bad intentions towards anyone, or any version of the Sim.

[Jel 37]

Two potential newbies are curious about UAW160,and they read threads that say it is difficult to install, and that the file-manager is difficult to use.

The first believes that and does not bother.
The second decides to carry on regardless, gets a successful installation and is able to select an exe, a planeset and a theatre and fly UAW160 with no problems.
He wonders why those posts were made.

However, because of those posts we lost a newbie who did not bother to try

[MarkEAW 63]

That is to be expected.

The sooner improvement (if any) are done, the less negative feedback you'll tend to get.
Newbie's will then see the postive feedback perhaps and carry on.

and those post are made because people have issues with the frontend, if its not clear to you now, I don't know what to say about the issue anymore.

But like I say, if theres no improvement then theres no reason for me or some others to use the frontend.
For me it was the intial use and then the returning to it after not using it awhile.

It has a learning curse, and you have to get the details fixed in your head, if you away from it those details vanish after awhile.
If the details where always present the newbies and the in frequentant users wouldnt have an issue.

Carry on Jel, I'd work with you if I could ,but I don't program and don't have the time to invest in it more than I have provided with my feedback posts above and in the past.

[Jel 37]

Quote

those post are made because people have issues with the frontend

Which posts, apart from yours and RIBobs?

[Jel 37]

As posted elsewhere

I will release it after a few more tests

Opening screen:

A planeset was selected:

[Jel 37]

The link is here:
 PSExe_for_Dummies

The file that you will download is named "PlaneSetExeTheatreSwitchV4.ex_" so it needs to be renamed as "PlaneSetExeTheatreSwitchV4.exe" before you put it in your UAW160 folder.

[RIBob 39]

Unfortunately, and this is SINCERELY said, my attempt to  D/L AND install V1.60 on my win 10 computer failed, despite my following instructions to the letter.  The initial download/install failed to work on  my computer, sad to say.

I VERY MUCH want to install V1.60 onto my modern win 10 computer, and need some help.  I did notice that the dreaded "Mouse pointer" made its' appearance before the game crashed. I'd hoped I'd seen the last of that. 

Oddly enough, a copy of Microsoft Combat Flight Sim 2, provided to me by a Member here, installed and worked perfectly on Win 10.  No telling how these old sims will work out.  Same person provided me with a GTG version of V1.60, and so the failure mentioned here.  I subsequently downloaded the 1.60 primary file from Jel's site, and had the identical failure to run.

In any event, been playing CFS 2 for a few hours, and enjoying the retro experience.  I modded the given CSF 2 game by adding in all the CSF 1 aircraft; took me all of 10 minutes to add a few dozen Aircraft into CSF 2. Unfortunately, CFS 2 does not seem to be TIR-friendly, at least at first inspection.  EAW, generally speaking, is also GTG with Track IR, but being unable to play v1.60 on my Win 10 computer, I cannot comment on the important issue of V1.60 vs. TIR.

Yes, I have an up-to-date version of v1.60 on my Win 7 computer. It runs well.  The point is that Win 7 computers are far behind the cutting edge, and wearing-out.  The future is in Win 10, and whatever new OS's might come along.  That's my reason for wanting to get EAW (all versions) running in Win 10  That, and vastly upgraded CPUs, and Graphics cards.

Meaning no disrespect to anyone, but if their version of the simis is inherently adverse to running on Win 10, then such should be PROMINENTLY stated prior to any downloading of files.

I will consult Mark's site on concerning my difficulties.  

[Jel 37]

I run 160 in Win10, and so do many other people.
Did you put your own "eaw.ini" file from your Win7 installation into your Win10  UAW160 folder?

When you tried to fly 160 did you get the main selection screen?
If you did, did you select a single mission or an instant mission?

Instant missions use data stored from single missions, and if no single missions have been flown then there can be problems.

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Jel

[MarkEAW 63]

On 9/2/2019 at 4:01 AM, Jel said:

Which posts, apart from yours and RIBobs?

There are no others willing to post, its normally the unknown users that has the problems and the users that try to help, Like RIBob and me are attacked out of fear or fragility.

 I hope people can enjoy the Dummy 160 frontend. I'll eventually get there myself after I figure out my other project for my eaw help site.

 

RIBob, The first thing I do is instant mission, 160 needs to include some, but probabaly can't depending on the selections made in the external frontend.

But anyways I delete all eaw.ini's and then run the game directly through the eaw.exe. then ill quite and go back to the frontend. Should work after that.

Edited September 3, 2019 by MarkEAW