Workaround for nuclear toss bombing

[Foug84 8]

I'm currently trying to make a workaround for nuclear toss bombing in absence of CCRP and other bombing computers (as far as i know) by turning unguided tactical nuclear bombs into "JDAMs" in order for them to be a bit more precise, by making them GPS guided, however i'm encountering problems. Instead of the bomb following a modified ballistic trajectory towards its target, it simply flies horizontally

 

(The target is the radio station, however the bomb flew horizontally until it exploded when encountering terrain)

I do not know if it's because of the era (the mission date is well before the introduction of GPS) or something wrong i did

 

Here's the Weapon editor page. I first tried to make a copy of a JDAM, but i then put max turn rate and max launch G to max (to allow toss bombing)

 

 

I also don't know if what i'm trying to do is even possible, but i guess that asking first won't harm

[+dtmdragon 2,693]

The SF2 game engine does not handle tossing LGB, EOGB or GPS bombs. These weapons need to be dropped in a reasonably accurate and stable trajectory for the guidance to take over. Try doing the trigonometry to work out the speed, pull up angle, and release point to toss the bomb dumb. A little bit of practice and you will be surprised how accurate you can get. Just like they did back in the 60's....

[Foug84 8]

3 hours ago, dtmdragon said:

Try doing the trigonometry to work out the speed, pull up angle, and release point to toss the bomb dumb. A little bit of practice and you will be surprised how accurate you can get. Just like they did back in the 60's....

I tried finding bomb tossing tables without success. Also, i'm pretty sure that back in the 60s, the bombs were released using (mechanical) computers. It's not really to the level of precision of newer CCRP computers, but the release point during the loop is left to the computer

[+daddyairplanes 10,118]

in game, pretty much you need to practice. i havent heard of methods for computer release on the player flown aircraft. you still have to pull the trigger

in the B-47E aircraft release there was a method shared to toss bomb the Mk15 nuke. pretty much involved "fly at specific speed and altitude, pull up hard at x distance, release at x altitude, complete loop and get the hell outta dodge".

another member and i worked this out to a cookie cutter procedure for that aircraft and weapon.  once we came to a rough agreement on how, it got written up and added as part of the mod

you would have to create your own methods for other aircraft/weapons combos. its not something youll write into a data.ini

if you do work out methods, please do share how you did it. reference what's in quotation marks above for what info others would need to have

[+Nightshade/PR 7,836]

8 hours ago, Foug84 said:

I tried finding bomb tossing tables without success. Also, i'm pretty sure that back in the 60s, the bombs were released using (mechanical) computers. It's not really to the level of precision of newer CCRP computers, but the release point during the loop is left to the computer

Toss Bombing without a computer???!!!??? What an interesting concept. Now, you all KNEW I wouldn't let the challenge go uncontested. I DO LOVE ME SOME NUKES!!!!!! So, here's the story.

Using a pair of Danish F-100F's (it IS Super Sunday after all), I went in search of a factory building 197 miles away. Low & fast, through the SAM traps, (they missed....somehow) and finally....

I'm in range. The only calculations made were done mentally on the fly (so to speak), until I hit TLAR (That Looks About Right) distance. I left the numbers in the shot so you can see what I was doing on the loop/roll up & away....

And just so you don't think my aim was off, or my methods unsound, check out the bomb in the upper right of the photo as it nears the target.

The results speak for themselves. You don't need a workaround for this....just a LOT of practice and patience. And it's SO satisfying when you get it right.

[+daddyairplanes 10,118]

5 hours ago, Nightshade/PR said:

Toss Bombing without a computer???!!!??? What an interesting concept. Now, you all KNEW I wouldn't let the challenge go uncontested.

ahem.....

werent you the very one that worked up the B-47 numbers a year or two back?

principles stand though and i dont see way a a stick of Mk82s or a LGB with in game, person on the ground designator wouldnt provide similar  (tho less glowing) results

NOTE: LGB wont work tossing if you load a laser designator on your bird. you gotta hold nice and still. and the in game on the ground designator will only work on the assigned target for that misson, not any side quests

[+Nightshade/PR 7,836]

Guilty as charged. And yeah, you can do it with conventional bombs (slicks), but they aren't nearly as much fun for killing the local air cover if they just happen to be in the blast zone.

Again, it's a lot of practice with different weapons until it becomes something you can do on the fly; remembering which airframe & weapon you are using. Smaller bombs, you can get closer. For the larger nukes, you need more altitude for a longer throw distance, more speed for the toss, and to immediately "get outta Dodge."

[Wrench 9,792]

as has been shown over the last 20 odd years of this game, you don't need anything special, just practice, practice and more practice. And 'slick' bombs

(I noticed the OP is showing a high drag para (balute?) so no wonder it don't work)

[Foug84 8]

4 hours ago, Wrench said:

as has been shown over the last 20 odd years of this game, you don't need anything special, just practice, practice and more practice. And 'slick' bombs

(I noticed the OP is showing a high drag para (balute?) so no wonder it don't work)

The model is an AN-52 whose original model was retarded, but i disabled the drogue in the options.

Given the fact the bomb flew horizontally for several miles without losing altitude until crashing into a hill, the drogue animation definitely didn't work into slowing the bomb.

Also, i get that yeah, practise is important, but it would be more easy with some tables

[+daddyairplanes 10,118]

13 hours ago, Foug84 said:

Given the fact the bomb flew horizontally for several miles without losing altitude until crashing into a hill, the drogue animation definitely didn't work into slowing the bomb.

the animation wont do a thing. you gotta put some more drag on it in the data.ini. too much and it flies backwards in a reverse version of what you experienced. too little and.....

also i would advise, work your own tables. share if you want. then leave it be

someone will come along, take your baby you worked hard on, and make their own little tweak to it that will totally throw your tables off. then yell at you in forum for the table being off.

thats just part of this show, all the modders here have seen it to some extent or another. the tweaking itself, well thats what modders do (or as is said i reject your reality and substitute my own)

[Foug84 8]

14 hours ago, daddyairplanes said:

the animation wont do a thing

That's what i meant. I wanted to disable drag in case JDAM-izing it could work with toss bombing. I didn't mess with the animations setting however.

Guess there's still the possibility of "JDAMizing" a Yellow Sun or an AN-11/21 for high altitude delivery for a V-bomber or Mirage IVA to make it work like it was released with the computer system and the bombardier-navigator. Guess it can still be nerfed by having a poor accuracy with a zip-code sized CEP (which might not be a problem for the Yellow Sun Mark 2, but might be for the smaller yield of the AN 11)

(Yeah, i really want an easy fix for 1960s nuclear bombing, sue me if you want )

[UllyB 1,206]

hmmm, so you are the one who's been tossing nukes here around. I was wondering why lately my food tastes funny. On the bright side, the color of it is nicer now.

Edited September 12, 2023 by UllyB

[Foug84 8]

7 minutes ago, UllyB said:

hmmm, so you are the one who's been tossing nukes here around. I was wondering why lately my food tastes funny. On the bright side, the color of it is nicer now.

Well, i was playing with ASMPs for some time, and i did want to go vintage lol

Sorry for the salty taste of the air