talon

[Darrin 3]

first filight loaded with jdams but no way to lock them on target any help

[+EricJ 3,994]

If there's an extra spot, you have to put a target designator (i.e. Lightning Pod or Sniper XR or anything under that category)

[+Typhoid 231]

If there's an extra spot, you have to put a target designator (i.e. Lightning Pod or Sniper XR or anything under that category)

 

no. The JDAM is a gps guided bomb.

 

All you have to do in the sim is to select your ground target and then drop it within reasonable aerodynamic parameters for the bomb to self guide.

 

it does work.

[+EricJ 3,994]

Hrm, the word from USAFMTL was that it required a designator pod, and flights have confirmed this, but is it the (v)4 or (v)1?

[Caesar 305]

I don't need any pods to drop any variant of the JDAM from my Tomcat (GBU-31v1-4, or GBU-38.) Usu. fly 2 JDAM, 2 AIM-7 or -54 and 2 AIM-9 on the glove pylons with the rear fuselage Phoenix pylons empty. So long as the target is selected, and they are dropped from the right parameters, they'll release and guide to target. The GBU-10/-12/-16/-24, however, need the LANTIRN or they won't even release.

[+EricJ 3,994]

Yeah I just came back from a test flight. Yes the target (main primary target) can be engaged, but not "opportunity" targets. So okay the verdict is it works for the primary target but not for any other targets.

[Caesar 305]

Try flying closer to the TOO's; you should be able to target them, albeit you've gotta get damn close. For example, the Z-15L trucks on bases or the 23mm AAA tank-things can be targeted if you get close enough and hit "T" (but good luck if it's cloudy; you'll loose the target damn quick.) Sometimes targeting radio-given targets (usually SAM or AAA sites) works better. If someone calls SAM launch, and I get the target by selecting radio target, I can put a JDAM on it, then after destroying the SAM launcher or Straight Flush Radar or whatever, hit "E" to reselect the primary target and hit it with my second JDAM (or vice-versa, hit primary first, then if I get a radio target, hit that second.)

[+Dave 2,319]

So GPS guidance works?

[+EricJ 3,994]

Apparently so, I just like hitting them with Paveways..

[Caesar 305]

I'll try to capture it on FRAPS later tonight.

[+Typhoid 231]

So GPS guidance works?

 

yes, but as noted above for the primary "pre-briefed" targets. I've noticed the same limitation that "pop-up" targets can't be engaged.

 

in the real world of course, the crew can select emerging targets linked up to them and drop. The B-1 for example will go out with 84 JDAMS and just "hang out" on call for targets linked up from the troops on the ground. So the squad lead can deliver "500lb grenades" precisely wherever he wants them.

 

I saw a cool photo the other day of a patrol out in Afghanistan with the CAS B-1 contrail above. Gives a whole new meaning to "Close Air Support".

 

[+EricJ 3,994]

Well if I do go over there again, I'll see about that one

[FastCargo 412]

in the real world of course, the crew can select emerging targets linked up to them and drop. The B-1 for example will go out with 84 JDAMS and just "hang out" on call for targets linked up from the troops on the ground. So the squad lead can deliver "500lb grenades" precisely wherever he wants them.

 

I didn't know Bones had been cleared to drop 500 lb JDAMs.

 

But I just did a little research, and the wiki:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-1_Lancer

 

Says it's only capable of carrying 17 of the 500lb JDAMs (referencing the MX loading document in a 6 6 5 config).

 

Now, I'm not trying to be a 'rivet counter'...I looked it up because I was curious. When I flew Bones 10 years ago, we had 3 types of racks. 1 rack could carry 28 Mk82 500lb bombs, 1 rack could carry 10 CBUs, 1 rack was a rotary rack, and was used to carry 'specials' and SRAMs, later adapted to Mk84 2000lb bombs and JDAMs. 1 rack fits in 1 bay...a Bone has 3 bays...you get the idea.

 

17 is an odd number...you would think you could at least carry the 500lb JDAMs on the same rotary rack as the 2000lb ones...giving you 24. Or if the tail kits were just a little too long compared to a standard 500lb 'slick' or ballute, that would explain only 6...but why only 5 in the last bay.

 

81 standard Mk82s is a little odd too. The configuration we flew with was a 24 24 24 setup...why was there one taken out in the new doc? Maybe there is a new box in the aft bay that precludes carrying one weapon...which might also explain the odd 17 500lb JDAM setup.

 

I also read a B-2 recently did a test with the 500lb JDAMs, dropping 80 inert warhead 500lb JDAMs in a single sortie. Oh man, to have that capability in an aircraft. You could take out an ENTIRE airfield in one pass (buildings, aircraft, runway, trucks)...

 

Anyway, I just thought 17 was an odd number, I like 82 JDAMs much better!

 

FastCargo

[+Typhoid 231]

I didn't know Bones had been cleared to drop 500 lb JDAMs.

 

But I just did a little research, and the wiki:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-1_Lancer

 

Says it's only capable of carrying 17 of the 500lb JDAMs (referencing the MX loading document in a 6 6 5 config).

 

Now, I'm not trying to be a 'rivet counter'...I looked it up because I was curious. When I flew Bones 10 years ago, we had 3 types of racks. 1 rack could carry 28 Mk82 500lb bombs, 1 rack could carry 10 CBUs, 1 rack was a rotary rack, and was used to carry 'specials' and SRAMs, later adapted to Mk84 2000lb bombs and JDAMs. 1 rack fits in 1 bay...a Bone has 3 bays...you get the idea.

 

17 is an odd number...you would think you could at least carry the 500lb JDAMs on the same rotary rack as the 2000lb ones...giving you 24. Or if the tail kits were just a little too long compared to a standard 500lb 'slick' or ballute, that would explain only 6...but why only 5 in the last bay.

 

81 standard Mk82s is a little odd too. The configuration we flew with was a 24 24 24 setup...why was there one taken out in the new doc? Maybe there is a new box in the aft bay that precludes carrying one weapon...which might also explain the odd 17 500lb JDAM setup.

 

I also read a B-2 recently did a test with the 500lb JDAMs, dropping 80 inert warhead 500lb JDAMs in a single sortie. Oh man, to have that capability in an aircraft. You could take out an ENTIRE airfield in one pass (buildings, aircraft, runway, trucks)...

 

Anyway, I just thought 17 was an odd number, I like 82 JDAMs much better!

 

FastCargo

 

you would know better than I if you flew them, but the account I was referring to primarily was from OIF during the major combat in and around Baghdad when a B-1 dropped 4 on a possible location for Saddam. Turned out they missed (him) that time but the account refrenced 84 JDAMs. Of course, that being a newspaper.........

[Caesar 305]

Okay, I got a video rendering on the way (15% done right now, prolly be done in about 15-20 mins). What seems to work are any TOO's that can be targeted via radio, and more randomly ones that can be targeted with "T," but don't ask me why, not consistantly. The video documents me hitting 2 of 3 shots on SAM sites, targeted with radio commands, then going to the primary target and hitting it with my last JDAM, then the "T" key working, which would have allowed me to hit the Z-157L truck with a JDAM had I not wasted it out of launch parameters on the SAM sites. Buildings, fuel tanks and runways, unless they're the primaries, I think is completely impossible. But, TOO's that are military targets, usually trucks or equipment, can be targeted and struck with JDAM or LGBs.

[Caesar 305]

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autom...si&img=2702

[Shin_kazama 1]

you know i tried to use the jdam on my talon far from my target.

 

at almost 70 miles out!

 

i was flying @ 45,000 feet and @ 1290 kts, then released two of my jdams.

 

after that i fought the 10 flankers that was ent to intercept me and my wing.

 

and after the last flanker was put awat with, i just heard red crown say that mission complete RTB.

 

and guess what, Taget Hit! twice.

[+drdoyo 2]

you know i tried to use the jdam on my talon far from my target.

 

at almost 70 miles out!

 

i was flying @ 45,000 feet and @ 1290 kts, then released two of my jdams.

 

after that i fought the 10 flankers that was ent to intercept me and my wing.

 

and after the last flanker was put awat with, i just heard red crown say that mission complete RTB.

 

and guess what, Taget Hit! twice.

 

 

The rule of thumb that I use when dropping JDAM or GBUs is (Release Altitude/1000)/2=Release Point

or (20,000ft/1000)/2=20/2=10 miles. So at 2000 ft you would release at 1 mile.

 

Obviously speed does play some part in how far the bomb will guide to target. I wouldn't try that with a slower jet.

[FastCargo 412]

I didn't know Bones had been cleared to drop 500 lb JDAMs.

 

But I just did a little research, and the wiki:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-1_Lancer

 

Says it's only capable of carrying 17 of the 500lb JDAMs (referencing the MX loading document in a 6 6 5 config).

 

Now, I'm not trying to be a 'rivet counter'...I looked it up because I was curious. When I flew Bones 10 years ago, we had 3 types of racks. 1 rack could carry 28 Mk82 500lb bombs, 1 rack could carry 10 CBUs, 1 rack was a rotary rack, and was used to carry 'specials' and SRAMs, later adapted to Mk84 2000lb bombs and JDAMs. 1 rack fits in 1 bay...a Bone has 3 bays...you get the idea.

 

17 is an odd number...you would think you could at least carry the 500lb JDAMs on the same rotary rack as the 2000lb ones...giving you 24. Or if the tail kits were just a little too long compared to a standard 500lb 'slick' or ballute, that would explain only 6...but why only 5 in the last bay.

 

81 standard Mk82s is a little odd too. The configuration we flew with was a 24 24 24 setup...why was there one taken out in the new doc? Maybe there is a new box in the aft bay that precludes carrying one weapon...which might also explain the odd 17 500lb JDAM setup.

 

I also read a B-2 recently did a test with the 500lb JDAMs, dropping 80 inert warhead 500lb JDAMs in a single sortie. Oh man, to have that capability in an aircraft. You could take out an ENTIRE airfield in one pass (buildings, aircraft, runway, trucks)...

 

Anyway, I just thought 17 was an odd number, I like 82 JDAMs much better!

 

FastCargo

 

Okay, so I HAD to know. Today in the squadron, I accosted a recent Bone driver (I'm old, he wasn't even in college when I last flew Bones...sheesh) and asked about current weapons loads. What he told me is going on with the Bone is even more astonishing than I figured.

 

Appearently, Bones have become the CAS darling in Afganistan. The combination of loiter time, response time, and precision has become a big deal. The loadout document is correct though, Bones can only carry a max of 17 500lb JDAMs...apparently the tail kits are in fact just a bit too long. And the old conventional racks just didn't have the extra room to take the standard amount.

 

However, I found out that the rotary racks don't just take 2000lb JDAMs. They also fit JSOW and JSSAM...on the same rack! You can carry 3 types of weapons on one rack at the same time...amazing. Also, the computers are smart enough that even with a mixed load, you just tell what type of weapon you want on the target, and it will automatically cycle the racks to drop the right weapon at the right time.

 

Also, they are going to the FOL mounting Lightning targeting pods on the wing glove just outside of the engine nacelle. It seems CENTCOM wants that capability RIGHT NOW...so they're totally bypassing the normal flight test route and going straight to operation. The only reason they aren't being mounted on the external hardpoints (yes, the Bone has external hardpoints) is because the START treaty required those to be faired over.

 

Finally, and this is just a proposal...but the B-1Bs primary radar is a derivative of the F-16s radar...but with WAY more power. Testing has been finding out that it isn't THAT hard to reintergrate the A2A capability back into the B-1B radar...but with lots of range. Combine that with adapting a Bone to carry Slammers...24 on 3 rotary racks...

 

I like it!

 

It's funny, 10 years ago, when I left, the Bone community was not a happy place. Funding was iffy at best, we hadn't participated in DS, had several teething problems and high profile accidents. It's amazing how the system (and the attitudes) have changed in a decade...

 

FastCargo

[+EricJ 3,994]

LOL Dale Brown would go cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs over this one...

[JediMaster 451]

In the book "The Sixth Battle" they do indeed retrofit Bones with Slammer capability and use a flight of them to take out a massive Russian force. The Russians are dumbstruck because F-16s couldn't have reached them where they were, yet that's what their RWRs are telling them are attacking them!

[+EricJ 3,994]

I think I remember that book, but any Bone driver would be loony to try and mix it up with even a Piper Cub with an R-60 on each wing. But if the claims for the -120D are true, then it'd be a little better.