MiG-23 "Flogger" fighter series-new replacement .ini files

[+nele 0]

This is an "ultimate" tweak of .ini fileset for entire "Flogger" series (M, MS, MF, ML, MLD) made to bring them closer to real-life performance in SFP1/WOE. It solves the main problem of too low sea-level speed (and many AI landings, but not all :))

 

Installation: copy files in the archive instead those currently installed in Objects/Aircraft directories of WOE or SFP1 installation on tyour hard-disk. Backup first! These files were not tested with WoV, but should(?) work. Usual disclaimer apply.

 

Tweaks are:

 

-SL speed about like the real-life one (cca. 1.400kph IAS, 870mph, 756kts); Will go over M2 above 12,000m (it takes some time, though :)

 

-Landing speed(s) close to those of real-life Floggers (240-270kph/149-167mph/130-145kts IAS);

 

-Linear acceleration (based on ML model) close to original (reduced overall drag);

 

-Turning performance brought to "feeling" level (buffeting at cca.20 deg, departure on harsh pull on hard level in SFP1/WOE). Catching true seconds in turn would be unfair to Flogger, as many Western types are over-modelled.

 

-Control decrease due to velocity, simulating "mech work" of lifting surfaces&artificial feel system);

 

-Engine thrust/altitude performance from manual, except altitude/Mach correction necessary in SFP1/WOE;

 

-Only MLD has AoA-sensitive slats; The rest of models have those retractable with flaps, as in reality earlier models use them only on takeoff/landings (i.e. 16deg);

 

-Integrated AI for wingies/adversaries (keeps the speed up, more suitable for Flogger due to swing-wing behaviour).

 

-Attempt to ephasize differences between versions (as there were quite huge in real life!).

 

-Landing gear is made much less "bumpy" on all models. The wrong on-ground attitude of ML/MLD is NOT fixed, as it would require changing of 3-d model (real ML/MLD have ZERO deg ground attitude, others have 2deg 19'attitude).

 

-Fuel has been locally distributed according to the manual information (ML/MLD have different wing tanks than initial series). Number of tanks is not correct, but location/qty is;

 

-Radar(s) have been improved. It was quite a performer in 70's and 80's. Ranges for ML and MLD are adjusted accordingly.

 

- Mach needle will go over M1 and now does full circle. This might look awkward, but will give you a better velocity feeling.

 

-Weapon load brought to -practice- load and nominal masses; Prevented loading of unsuitable AA missiles on glove and under-lerx pylons (R-40 lerx, R-23 under glove); Also, pilot's words is that MLD, and -only- MLD was to carry increased bombload on underglove racks (in Afghanistan). The same "Bomb-truck driver" in Afghanistan (MLD pilot) said that maximum was 4X500kg, single salvo release. If you disagree with him, either adjust this as you see fit ;).

 

As for slat "design"... well, it seems that those slats act like leading-edge "drop" flaps in reality more than "true" slats. Pilot's words about aircraft behavior at low-speed point to that direction, too. I made them looking to those from "stock" F-4C. Yes, that is tweaking, but at least has some "cover" :) No way to make normal AI landing with the wing that is designed to work best at 45deg and to make it look like 16deg wengsweep landing. In addition, WOE and SFP1 have a little different landings and FE, so SFP1 "drops" the nose a bit more.

 

It was an unpleasant surprise, but, in my defense I have to say that secondary reason of stretching main struts on real "ML" was that some pilots were dropping the nose on M to better see the runway which would lead to harder touchdown with nose-gear first!).

 

 

Note: this is not a new mathematical model, but tweaked original Rafael's model modified by "feeling" (many test-flights!), so I beg ini-gurus not to check it mathematically :) I collected enough information (and experience!) to build a totally new "true" flogger, but it would protract it indefinitely. For example, original Rafael's model has a lift for almost 1/3 too large, but is now well compensated by drag. I roughly made a "true" model, close to manual charts, and the largest "behavior" difference is that current "tweaked" one is a bit too speed-sensitive in pitch/drag, which is hardly noticeable in "hard" mode and a little more in "normal" mode (on MLD). I made a quick remedy on my computer by extending joystick deadzone and some (bad) flying habits of not unloading aircraft completely after the major turn (stick unload). Not all bad is for worse...

 

 

Model(s) simulated:

 

MiG-23M (model 1972)MiG_23M.zip. First major production model. Without SOS/SOUA (AoA limiter) and quite heavy (due to use of No.4 tank). There might be a problem in SFP1 with weapon load, since Weapon's pack shows R-23R missile appeared later. On this version, "nominal" would be 2xR-23R and 2xK-13M or 4xK-13M (due to shortage of then-new R-23R missiles in 1972).

 

It is not a dog (at least not after some fuel depletion!), but AoA behavior was/is tricky. Destabilizators added in ini file to simulate this. FM can get too twitchy after stall (hard level), but fixing this would demand much stall/spin practice "flights", and I already have nausea of those ;)

 

MiG-23M (model 1975/76) this is the same model like above, but with basic SOUA (AoA limiter) and with less fuel (in reality, troublesome No.4 tank not refueled/empty). More "lively" and easier to handle. Nominal armament in 1975- 2xR-23R, 4XR60T missiles. Use this instead if you find '72 model too tricky (inside M file with .1976 extension).

 

MiG-23MF Mig_23MF.zipThis is the same like later "M" version (SOUA, fuel), but with export radar components and IFF. It is simulated by making it a little "weaker" in search/track.

 

MiG-23MS Mig_23MS.zip(model 1973) earliest export model, also called MiG-23M(E). This would be an initial batch for Egypt, Syria and Libya. It has much weaker R-27 engine, weapons/radar combo of MiG-21, plus all bad things from early M. It did not have -any- RWR when delivered. Truly a dog!

 

MiG-23MS (later) Obviously after customers screamed in dissatisfaction, MS got "normal" R-29 engine and basically is a later M/MF with R-3 or 13M/Sapphire-21 (basically, a MiG-21 radar) weapon combination. It seems that it was in sporadic use of Soviet Union (as pictures do exist), probably for combat training and maybe in Far East. data.ini has 1976 extension, rename to use instead.

 

MiG-23ML Mig_23ML.zip(1976-1977) this is first major updated version. Lighter and with more powerful R-35 engine, it also has better radar and SOUA. Version simulated has earlier R-23R missiles and quad R-60TM (actually R-60M mod 62 or 62M), although it is the first in series that can really carry R-24R/T missiles.

 

Version simulated also has small SPS-141A onboard jammer and small MiG-27-style chaff/flare "add-on", although this was rare installation. But, in this form, it can "cover" performance of many mis-designated (by West) export models , as many of War Pac ML's are actually MLA's (Izdelitye 23-12A, with newer Sapphire radar, sometimes dubbed "Amethyst") as well as what was known as "MLD" but is actually mongrel "MLS" common in Middle East. It includes MLD-style updated avionics ML's /MLA's for export (Izdelitye 23-22A for War Pac and 23-19 for Syria), but without MLD aerodynamic modifications. "True" trademark of MLD version are vortex-generators and „cut" lerxes.

 

MiG-23MLD izdelitye 23-18 (1984) Mig_23MLD.zip this is a major upgrade of ML/MLA. This version has 33 deg instead 45 deg wingsweep in the sim, but there was actually a fourth "33 deg notch" in the cockpit lever. Vortex generators and "cuts" in the base of lerxes are lifting AoA to cca. 28 deg, which is noticeable as more "carefree" handling. "Active" slats (only model that uses slats to raise AoA/lift for maneuvering-also simulated). The new SOS 3-4 AoA limiter is simulated as greater pitch response and more pull at medium speed. The radar has been improved in search/track strength simulating N008. Nominal load is 2xR-24R and 4xR-60TM (actually R-60M mod 62M). Soviet versions in mid/late 90's were carrying 2x R-73 instead quad of R-60M's.

 

A drawback-greater static drag (due to lerx and vortex generators) is simulated. I wanted to make an "airbrake" effect of drop-slats, but "flight" testing showed a little difference and impact on landings. Unfortunately, 3d-model cannot visually simulate 33deg wingsweep.

 

It also has updated SPS-141 ECM (although this was very rare installation!) and common chaff/flare dispensers (although chaff were in container /below/ the fuselage). Also is "cleared" to 4x500kg-bombload after Afghan experience. Note that existence of this small ECM will not help you against newer Western models like F-15!

 

I couldn't find pictures of "Gardenia" ECM when mounted onto MLD to make "true" MLDG version (by simple use of some outside-similar Western model). MLDG was a peak upgrade of MLD, but it was rare. Therefore, I have put somewhat more powerful SPS-141. Its power is low enough not to make too much conflict with reality ("Gardenia", actually simplified "Sorbytsia" on MLDG was another story).

 

By words of former pilots, it seems the equipment was more crucial than 33-deg wing to make this version truly liked! Certainly, 33-deg wing was extremely useful-in Afghanistan, hi-alt airstrips, MiG pilots were carrying their nominal 4xFAB-500 (although cleared to single-salvo only), while Su-17M4 was struggling to leap into the air with 1T bombload. However, in mock-dogfights, some pilots missed ML-style acceleration and were using vortex and new SOS 3-4 AoA combination to make "custom" wingsweep(s), as wingsweep lever is continuous and has no locks, just "notches" for per-manual-allowed wingsweep. For example, there is a pilot that preferred "custom" 60-deg(!!!) wingsweep for energy-combat and 33 only when out of airspeed.

 

Tactics: keep the speed up! M/MS have swing-wing tweaked a bit, so it will swing to 72 deg little earlier. This will help in acceleration, but will affect turn rate. Be gentle on these babies-no harsh pulls in hard mode! The key is flying on the "saw-tooth blade", to keep the speed up and stay away from critical AoA's by just "touching" it. Later M and MF are much better for a close combat If you switch to basic MS, it will look it forever to accelerate (as you have 2.5 tonnes less thrust than basic "M" and same weight).

 

If you were patient to read all this :), there is -another- Flogger .ini here- MiG-23PMiG_23P.zip. It is a ML spinoff, and is different by having no ECM/decoys, but I have put radar of more search range (additional range scale) and more power in track. A true MiG-23P has a digital datalink to the ground radars (which cannot just automatically steer it, but give target information outside onboard radar range) and a digital computer onboard for giving best firing solution. Representing a newer version, it has all bombing capabilities deleted (only CAP and Intercept) and has a mixed combo of R-24R/T missiles. For home use, I modified R-24T to be all-aspect (as it -was- all-aspect) and could be fired with shut radar and/or fed by data from datalink and IRST. This has much sense for interceptor. There is also an .ini file, so you can see which files have to be copied&renamed from MiG-23ML to the new MiG-23P directory.

 

For private use, I have also made various low-res schematic for the main series, as they were too similar to each other in original (booring!!! :D). "Tankgreen" for "M", representing 35IAP "M" floggers, "Afghan" for MLD (a sun-worn scheme, by bleaching original :)), "interceptor grey" for -23P (a "polished" "M" grey scheme) and, also by replacing colors, something that resembles a 28GIAP scheme for -23P. I would have tried harder (i.e. decent enough for publishing), but I don't have hi-res (or any!) templates :(

 

As for the engine-I have put altitude-thrust data from the MiG-23 manual, but if Mach-thrust data from the manual is used, it gets short of breath above cca. 10,000m. Using "stock" WetMachTableData is a common use by FM modelers, but I explored this a little further in practice (read: much hi-alt Mach-busting and altitude holding). By my opinion, this is vital and frequently neglected parameter! Workable multiplier (but not necessary accurate) correction is visible in data.ini of MiG-23P-roughly 0.012 for each 0.2Mach from M06-1.2, like MtrueMachThrust*(1+0.012) for M0.6, MtMT*(1.012+0.012) for M0.8 etc (rather flat) and much sharper above M1.2 to M2.4 (cca. 0.37, like MtMT*(1+0.37) for M1.4, MtMT*(1.37+0.37) for M1.6, MtMT*(1.74+0.37) for M1.8 etc. You got the picture.

 

There is also a FE problem with too much "thrust-pitchdown", which makes huge problems to Aircraft like Foxbat (whose engines act similar to ramjets above M1.4!), and "trim" drag (due to necessary stick backpressure to hold the aircraft) annuls thrust. Thrust vector goes awry (i.e. down) at high Mach. "Engineers", please note, this is from test flights! I gave you a hint which MiG will be next ;)

 

Cheers,

 

Nele

[+Dave 2,322]

Hey Nele

 

Why don't you just upload them to you main downloads section? Great work by the way!

[Fubar512 1,350]

Nele,

 

Thanks for your contribution, that represents a ton of work.

 

USAFMTL is rught, though, you should assemble them in one package along with the text of your post, and add simple instructions that those new to the game could follow.

[+Crusader 2,082]

thanks man, really a big chunk of serious work done on those kites

 

edited to add a smilie ... LOL

Edited April 18, 2007 by Crusader

[Nicholas Bell 117]

Wow... You are a fount of knowledge on this bird! Thanks - going to see how the old bird flies now

[+nele 0]

I wish you guys test it first, and if you find it satisfactory, then I shall upload it there. The only main drawback I found is that joystick pitch sensitivity most notable in normal mode (which I "cured" locally by extending joystick deadzone).

 

I made AI best fit for ML/MLD/P (aggressive in AB and roll), so weaker models might "suffer" a bit. MS (early) was the biggest "troublemaker" with AI landings, because the AI could not cope with such a weak engine and high wing loading :)

 

Please continue to report. I also have some ideas for engines to overcome FE drawback for "speeders" like "Foxbat", but I will make some test flights on Fishbeds with that "propulsion" first :D

 

Nele

[Bullseye 0]

You have said it yourself-

''This is an "ultimate" tweak of .ini fileset for entire "Flogger" series''

and you are damn right, these FM updates totally rock!

Thanks for your work Nele!

[EasyE 0]

Sorry How do I install I can't seem to make them work.

[+kreelin 2]

I took the ML in a spin and I like the result ;). Great job Doc. I will test her in combat session now...

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

Great news, we tweak the FM of teh F-1c mirage series and now the Flogger is repaired!! great news for sure!!! Will post the ini tweaks for the F-1 the next day still looking for errors!!!

Edited April 19, 2007 by 76.IAP-Blackbird

[gerald14 0]

The Floggers Fly great!! Thanks

[+nele 0]

Well, if you like it, then I shall upload them to downoad section. I don't feel like typing readme.txt now, I will do it over the weekend I also have some "quickie" low-res addon schemes, modded from the original... But slow link kills me and it is frustrating sending preview pictures over the modem.

 

BTW, a question for Blackbird-spoilers on Flogger remain shut at 72 wingsweep on real bird. Can it be done simply via some speed comand .ini file? (I know that Mirage F1 has those, so...). "Blowbackspeed" doesn't work-it is roll control.

 

Nele

[BattlerBritain 1]

Nele,

 

Great work Dood

 

Top notch tweek to these birds. And really great info on the differences between the sub-types. Just include your original post as the Readme - it's great.

 

Cheers,

 

Battler

[Canadair 16]

Thanks for the humongous work and for teaching me something in the jungle of russian planes versions;

thoguh could someone please cross check for me that the mig-23M works? with the new ini I alway get ctd; but it might be my plane other files corrupted,

[+nele 0]

Atrdriver,

 

it works fine here, but it really might be my mistake because I am lazy and I am using Notepad for editing :blush2: . It seems that notepad can sometimes insert "invisible" characters that may confuse FE when loading. It is intermittent occurence known in the community.

 

It can be easily fixed-select all text from .ini file (but not with select all, use mouse or scroll) and copy into other blank text file (use some other text editor) and save as text-only DOS-ASCII. This worked for me.

 

Alternatively, Try 1976 version (rename MiG-23M_data.ini), and see if it works.

 

Nele

[Canadair 16]

Still no joy on the mig-23 M which I tired with the data 1976; but most likely it is my model corrupted; I'll download it again; another question: why in the loadout screen, for the mig-23M and MF it shows one missile R-23 under wing gloves station; althoguh both the black dots are black if you get what I mean; in flight then both missiles are available and visable;

[Canadair 16]

ok; as for the mig-23m my model was corrupted;

gloves station; in betwwen right and left the lengthlimit is different that's why the little problem with missiles; very easy to fix; I guess they both should read 4.9

Typos; I hate them!

[+nele 0]

Reading ini file that has been sent;

[LeftGloveStation]

**

LengthLimit=4.90

 

[RightGloveStation]

***

LengthLimit=4.90

 

If you have been editing something, that's why the disclaimer is for Do what you wish, but try to use other text-editor.

 

Those two lines prevent incorrect loading of R-40 missiles onto MiG-23M early in 70's. Other two on glove pylons prevent incorrect loading of R-23/24 and other larger missiles (pylon is only cleared for R-3/13M/60 and later, R-73), but I checked the length to the largest -Western- analogue. That is, if somebody wish to defect with his Flogger

 

Nele

[Canadair 16]

[LeftGloveStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=1

StationGroupID=1

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=-1.330,0.50,-0.105

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=560.0

LengthLimit=2.99 <-------------------------------------------

AllowedWeaponClass=SAHM,IRM,BOMB,RP,RCKT

AttachmentType=SOVIET,WP

ModelNodeName=AAM_GlovePylon_Left

PylonMass=108.9

PylonDragArea=0.02

LaunchRailNodeName=LeftRail

 

[RightGloveStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=2

StationGroupID=1

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=1.330,0.50,-0.105

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=560.0

LengthLimit=4.90<---------------------------------------------------

AllowedWeaponClass=SAHM,IRM,BOMB,RP,RCKT

AttachmentType=SOVIET,WP

ModelNodeName=AAM_GlovePylon_Right

PylonMass=108.9

PylonDragArea=0.02

LaunchRailNodeName=RightRail

 

 

This is MIG-23MF data; the Mig-23M is ok

[+NeverEnough 78]

Also from the MiG-23MF_Data.ini:

 

[LeftFuselageStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=3

StationGroupID=2

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=-0.40,0.55,-1.16

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=225.0

LengthLimit=4.90<------------------------

AllowedWeaponClass=IRM,2IR,BOMB,RP

AttachmentType=SOVIET,WP

ModelNodeName=AAM_Pylon_Left

PylonMass=108.9

PylonDragArea=0.02

LaunchRailNodeName=LeftRail01

 

[RightFuselageStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=4

StationGroupID=2

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=0.40,0.55,-1.16

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=225.0

LengthLimit=2.99<-----------------------

AllowedWeaponClass=IRM,2IR,BOMB,RP

AttachmentType=SOVIET,WP

ModelNodeName=AAM_Pylon_Right

PylonMass=108.9

PylonDragArea=0.02

LaunchRailNodeName=RightRail01

[Canadair 16]

Oh well it is just alittle edit!

 

Thanks nele for the great job!

[+nele 0]

Aaaah, THAT Flogger! :blush2: A typo, I used MF backwards for a newer M and MS (those are "1976" versions). Just fixed in download section (M.1976, MF and MS.1976).

 

Please note I made wing stall AoA -intentionally- a little different (left-right wing). In "hard" level, that creates a pseudo-airflow separation (and wing rocking at critical angles that increases by pilot continuous stick backpressure&bank correction input).

 

Crude, but I could not think of anything else to simulate high-AoA instability. Forgot to tell you that, too.

 

Nele

[MechaStalin 10]

Great work, nice to have proper inis for my favourite plane. All we need now is a proper cockpit.