Bombers VS Fighters

[Lt. James Cater 62]

This is something i've been wondering about for some time.

 

In damn near every sim you can imagine for years everyone is always glowing about the fighter role. In WOV i am strickly speaking, a fighter pilot. My ride is a F-105D. However, i follow the notion that "fighter pilots write books, attack pilots make history".

Shooting down the enemy is all fine and dandy but getting the bombs on target is what really counts. The Thud comes with a nice 20mm gun but the only time i've ever used it was was for strafing ground targets. At the moment i'm not doing any missions, but you can bet that if i survive this tour, my next will probaly be in A-7s for the Linebacker period.

 

Opinions?

[tank03 1]

This is something i've been wondering about for some time.

 

In damn near every sim you can imagine for years everyone is always glowing about the fighter role. In WOV i am strickly speaking, a fighter pilot. My ride is a F-105D. However, i follow the notion that "fighter pilots write books, attack pilots make history".

Shooting down the enemy is all fine and dandy but getting the bombs on target is what really counts. The Thud comes with a nice 20mm gun but the only time i've ever used it was was for strafing ground targets. At the moment i'm not doing any missions, but you can bet that if i survive this tour, my next will probaly be in A-7s for the Linebacker period.

 

Opinions?

 

I'm guessing the reason sims generally reflect fighter aircraft is because it's instantly exciting and engaging. You get to play the prey vs. predator game and usually get instant gratification when you shoot down your enemy.

 

By comparison, a bombing run (though no less difficult or important) doesn't TYPICALLY offer the same sense of instant satisfaction or rush when you put the bombs on the target. Now, I've qualified this with "typically", because in WOV (especially with the YAP missions) I've struck targets and come out of it with the same sweaty hands and heavy breathing as a successful A2A mission. The intensity of the ground fire and the nearly overwhelming amount of "stuff" going on, all while trying to hit the target and get out alive is exceptionally enthralling. Of course a dive bombing run (which is really what the Thud did) is much more intense (I would imagine) than dropping a load from 30,000' in a Buff.

 

I do think though, that comparing fighters to bombers is a bit of apples and oranges as they have very different objectives. Though, each is somewhat dependent on the other for overall success of a given conflict, and each is, at one time or another, indispensable.

Edited April 28, 2007 by tank03

[xrearl 27]

The A-6 is my favorite strike Aircraft.My love is the F-4.It can fly just about any mission.

[TeTeT 0]

I enjoy the strike role quite a lot, not only in the Wings series but in other flight sims I played before as well. If I have the time, one of my favorites is to play a complete strike from take-off to landing. While approaching the target I enjoy watching the airbattle unfold and read a forum post or three :)

[Hawk MMS 0]

The other day i was usiing the B-66 for a strike and was coming in on the target when an Su-9 jumped me from the rear. Great thing was as I looked at an rearward external view all i saw was the tail gun dismantling the fishpot. I didn't expect that. well i went back to the front view and took out the target. I am going with strike aircraft over fighter aircraft.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I'm guessing the reason sims generally reflect fighter aircraft is because it's instantly exciting and engaging. You get to play the prey vs. predator game and usually get instant gratification when you shoot down your enemy.

 

By comparison, a bombing run (though no less difficult or important) doesn't TYPICALLY offer the same sense of instant satisfaction or rush when you put the bombs on the target. Now, I've qualified this with "typically", because in WOV (especially with the YAP missions) I've struck targets and come out of it with the same sweaty hands and heavy breathing as a successful A2A mission. The intensity of the ground fire and the nearly overwhelming amount of "stuff" going on, all while trying to hit the target and get out alive is exceptionally enthralling. Of course a dive bombing run (which is really what the Thud did) is much more intense (I would imagine) than dropping a load from 30,000' in a Buff.

 

I do think though, that comparing fighters to bombers is a bit of apples and oranges as they have very different objectives. Though, each is somewhat dependent on the other for overall success of a given conflict, and each is, at one time or another, indispensable.

 

The one thing i can always get froma hairy target is a racing pulse.

 

Let's face it, no CAP is going to equal the stress and intensity of having a strike mission up in Pack-6. Once you cross the Red river you know that it's on and it's going to being nonstop until you get back to the hills (or feet wet for you Navy pukes) . For me at least, swinging wide of Ben Yai and making for the north end of Thud ridge really gives you something to think about. You can look out over North Vietnam for quite a ways and see exactly what kind of jam you are getting yourself into. That's my usual approach for Thai Nguyen and Hanoi and you can best believe that my heart is racing when i go full throttle and head for the deck knowing what kind of defenses are ready and waiting.

 

Doing CAP? Not quite the same rush.

[C46thVA 0]

Im addicted to strike missions in my beloved F-4S and the F-4G Wild Weasel V, next for me is the A-7 series. I really love a mission that calls for the destruction of a runway. In that case I load up on SnakeEyes and scream in low, frying chickens in the barnyard as they say. I like to unload my bombs down the centerline of the runway, cratering the hell out of it. Then its full AB, chaff,flares, and climb for the clouds. I tried to attach some screenshots to illustrate this, but the file was too large. As soon as my dumba** figures out how to make the file smaller I attach some screenies.

 

C46th out

[+Dave 2,319]

Fighter pukes make movies, bomber pukes make history.

[Heck 496]

Got to agree with you about the Thud. One of my all time favorites. My favorite part of a mission is cranking into a climbing turn in full burner coming off the target, and looking back over my shoulder to see how many spans of the Dragon's jaw my team and I have dropped into the river. Especially if there's ZU-23 tracers chasing my tailpipe. Great sim, great stuff. I do find I often have to break the old rule, "one pass, haul ***," quite often though, because my bombing accuracy still sucks. If this were real life, my call sign would be "Go Round."

[Caveman 1]

I have to say mud pounding is my favorite hobby as well.... when i'm in a F-4 on a fighter mission i still load up some bombs just to have a lil' fun

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Got to agree with you about the Thud. One of my all time favorites. My favorite part of a mission is cranking into a climbing turn in full burner coming off the target, and looking back over my shoulder to see how many spans of the Dragon's jaw my team and I have dropped into the river. Especially if there's ZU-23 tracers chasing my tailpipe. Great sim, great stuff. I do find I often have to break the old rule, "one pass, haul ***," quite often though, because my bombing accuracy still sucks. If this were real life, my call sign would be "Go Round."

 

I just wish i'd be able to find away to get my whole force dropping bombs other than just me and my wingman. It would save a lot of headaches on certain targets.

 

Anyone know of any patches for that?

[TeTeT 0]

I just wish i'd be able to find away to get my whole force dropping bombs other than just me and my wingman. It would save a lot of headaches on certain targets.

 

Anyone know of any patches for that?

 

I think there's none. Loading the #3 and #4 aircraft for SEAD and sending them in either over the target or en route seems to work best. Ah, and remove their ammo to 0, otherwise they'll get most likely shredded when strafing.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I think there's none. Loading the #3 and #4 aircraft for SEAD and sending them in either over the target or en route seems to work best. Ah, and remove their ammo to 0, otherwise they'll get most likely shredded when strafing.

Aaah!

 

Thanks for the tip.

 

Perhaps this might work...Me and my wingman using a standard load while everyone else is loaded up with CBUs or Napalm and have no 20mm ammo. That just might be able to get them to attack ground targets without strafing.

[Sgt.KAR98 0]

WEird that in WOV the F-105 isn´t used as a fighter (not used in MiG-CAP).

BTW,what means MIG-CAP anyway?

[tank03 1]

WEird that in WOV the F-105 isn´t used as a fighter (not used in MiG-CAP).

BTW,what means MIG-CAP anyway?

 

MiG: as in MiG17, MiG21, etc and CAP as in Combat Air Patrol

 

The F-105 was never designed, nor meant, to be an air superiority fighter. It's not very manuverable and was designed for speed to deliver nukes to the soviets. During the early years of Vietnam, it was put into use as a dive bomber becuase the US had nothing else that fit the role until the F-4 came along.

Edited April 30, 2007 by tank03

[+ST0RM 145]

I'm an attack guy also. Especially if it's dual role capable. Being able to run in at low level and take out a target, then pop back up and mix it up with some fighters is a great mission. F-105s in any Vietnam campaign, F/A-18s or the A-10 for modern. Maybe even the Tornado over on the Euro side.

 

Storm

[eraser_tr 29]

Thats odd, flying the F-105 in WOE I wind up with tons of CAP and escort missions.

 

I guess I'm the only one here for fighters then. Fighters can bomb strategic targets, provide close air support and recon and shoot down other aircraft whether its a CAP, interception, escort or on any of the A2G missions. Most bombers are exclusively for ground attack with very little ability to shoot down another aircraft.

Edited April 30, 2007 by eraser_tr

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Thats odd, flying the F-105 in WOE I wind up with tons of CAP and escort missions.

 

I guess I'm the only one here for fighters then. Fighters can bomb strategic targets, provide close air support and recon and shoot down other aircraft whether its a CAP, interception, escort or on any of the A2G missions. Most bombers are exclusively for ground attack with very little ability to shoot down another aircraft.

In 2 1/2 tours of WOV, i've never seen a Thud do CAP or escort. It wasn't designed nor deployed for those tasks. They did kill Migs, but that was more or less a case of self protection. Using them as dedicated air superiority aircraft will ensure a rather swift demise if the Mig driver is past the "new guy" stage.

 

Take an aircraft rigged for air to air over Pack 6 and what will it do if no Migs come up? Attract AAA and SAMs that's all. You have to get the bombs on the target, full stop! So far in my experiences, Migs have been pretty much harmless. It's the SAMS and triple A that have done me in a few times as well as my fellow squadron mates. Not to be too harsh on "shoot down the foe" types, they have their role. It's just that everyone in existence seemingly wants to roam around looking for the kill while someone else makes their way into the teeth of enemy defenses to blow something up.

 

If you really want to raise the hairs on your head, try reading "When Thunder Rolled" by Ed Rasmius and "Thud Ridge" by Jack Broughton. You can also try Tom Wilsons' trilogy.

Edited April 30, 2007 by Lt. James Cater

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Thats odd, flying the F-105 in WOE I wind up with tons of CAP and escort missions.

 

I guess I'm the only one here for fighters then. Fighters can bomb strategic targets, provide close air support and recon and shoot down other aircraft whether its a CAP, interception, escort or on any of the A2G missions. Most bombers are exclusively for ground attack with very little ability to shoot down another aircraft.

 

P-51Doras and P-47Doras made prime air superiority fighters despite, nay, because of their almost bomber~esque mass. If the Ussian Air Force needed an air superiority fighter in 1960, particularly one with unmatched speed and range, they would have turned to the existing F-105 and field it with...heaven forbid...Hysterical Incorrect Loadout including racks packed full of dependable and reliable AIM-9B Sidewinders as demonstrated high over China in 1958.

 

One of the most effective combat tactical support aircraft was the Su-7B and beyond, although the original Su-7 was designed as pure guns/rocket only frontline tactical air superiority fighter. T'was very popular, and maybe about 60 of these were fielded before the basic design was molded into the tactical strike role in response to the F-105, and MiG-21 chosen as tac fighter instead, a somewhat wrong choice in my opinion.

[tank03 1]

In 2 1/2 tours of WOV, i've never seen a Thud do CAP or escort. It wasn't designed nor deployed for those tasks. They did kill Migs, but that was more or less a case of self protection. Using them as dedicated air superiority aircraft will ensure a rather swift demise if the Mig driver is past the "new guy" stage.

 

Take an aircraft rigged for air to air over Pack 6 and what will it do if no Migs come up? Attract AAA and SAMs that's all. You have to get the bombs on the target, full stop! So far in my experiences, Migs have been pretty much harmless. It's the SAMS and triple A that have done me in a few times as well as my fellow squadron mates. Not to be too harsh on "shoot down the foe" types, they have their role. It's just that everyone in existence seemingly wants to roam around looking for the kill while someone else makes their way into the teeth of enemy defenses to blow something up.

 

If you really want to raise the hairs on your head, try reading "When Thunder Rolled" by Ed Rasmius and "Thud Ridge" by Jack Broughton. You can also try Tom Wilsons' trilogy.

 

The few times I've taken the Thud against a MiG I've always come up short. I try to avoid those types of encounters by relying on that kick ass engine to get me the hell out of there ASAP.

 

I've just read Broughton's book for the first time and was thoroughly impressed; moving and informative.

[Sky Captain 0]

I have to say that in any sim, ground-pounding is probably the most fun/intense type of mission. Booming and zooming, or lobbing sparrows, becomes somewhat boring after a bit, but flying into a flak-infested kill zone (Especially in a prop plane) is really fun. (In game... In real life, it was probably the scariest thing to do)

 

I'm more of a tactical fighter guy... Pure fighters or bombers is kinda dull, but being able to mix it up both in the air and on the ground is what I like.

[eraser_tr 29]

Again, my thud experience is unusual. Migs weren't that big of a deal, probably because of the engine.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

The few times I've taken the Thud against a MiG I've always come up short. I try to avoid those types of encounters by relying on that kick ass engine to get me the hell out of there ASAP.

 

I've just read Broughton's book for the first time and was thoroughly impressed; moving and informative.

 

Speed is life as far as Thuds are concerned.

 

Mig threat? If at all possible go full throttle and drop the nose. No fighter on earth is going to catch a high speed Thud at low level. Now that i think of it, my own personal speed record is 705 knots at about 500ft whilest getting the hell out of the Hanoi area. Yep, there were a whole lot of disappointed Gomers way behind us that day!

[MigBuster 2,875]

hmmm I have even shot down a Mig-17 while flying an A1 Skyraider - however just when you think they are pointless one will fly up behind you - and you wont know hes there until its too late.

 

ps - I prefer Fighter-Bombers

[gokumalo 0]

It would be cool for someone to make a Bomber game but i'm sure they worry about sales because being a bomber requires time and patience..Not alot of people would fly a minimum 3 hr bomb run and turn back to base I wouldn't mind if the game had treats along with it but bombers are taken for granted these days...