Indo / Pakistan Air War Campaign

[lazboy]

I have recently been reading a great deal about the airwars between India and Palistan and have come to the conclusion that they have all the ingredients for a great campaign.

 

In the early airbattles you had Gnats, sabres and hunters amoungst others facing off against each others along with Canberras, some of the greats.

 

In later conflicts there were Migs galore and in any future airbattles we are likely to see some of the worlds most sophisticated aircraft go head to head, F-16's, Fulcrums, Flankers and if you extend the campaign to includes China there is the possibility of

J-10's etc.

 

So is anyone currently working on such a campaign, most of the necessary aircraft would already appear to be available?

 

lazboy

[kukulino]

I know nothing about WIP.

But there is fictional Fiza'ya Eagles campaign by melassal in the download section. Get campaign HERE!

If there is no WIP campaign, you can improve this exist with new squadrons and aircrafts, I think.

Edited October 27, 2007 by kukulino

[mppd]

I have sent out a few PMs trying to see if there is any interest in putting some life back into an accurate Ind-Pakistan campaign. Is anyone working on this and is looking for some help? The idea could use a new terrain - which I believe was started some time ago. Anyone want to share what they have so far?

 

This is a neat theater with great match-ups of 60s vintage fighters, playable from either side if one has no political ties to either country!

 

Thanks,

Mike Druzolowski

[mppd]

As I said, if everyone can hold their political views to themselves and just look at it as what it is intended to be - a clash of neat 60s vintage aircraft set in a historical setting - both 1971 and 1965, fly your favorite squadron (if you have one) and aircraft.

 

I have been researching squadrons and markings and am about 80% perhaps for the 71 match-up. Markings info on the 65 conflict is more difficult to come by. Tell me you wouldn't want to either be flying that tiger-striped Type 77 (Mig-21FL - cum PFM) or have it in your sights, as the case may be? Anyone know what sqdn it was assigned to? I remember an Air International artical long ago that I no longer have (after a flood destroyed much of my aviation collection in my cellar) which showed photos of it, plus lots of neat hasty camo applied to Indian Migs and SU-7s.

 

But how about a terrain? I saw screenies here some time (years?) ago which looked absolutely breathtaking! Somebody has it and is sitting on it. Will have to go thru back messages here or at SimHQ to find out who, and what it would take to shake it loose.

 

I have melassal's Fiza'ya Eagles campaign installed and it is a great package for starters, but limited as to historical IAF sqdns and the stock SFP1 desert terrain and targets.

 

Mike

[kukulino]

We have fictional conflict between India and Pakistan in the Download section:

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autom...p;showfile=3090

 

Specialist for this theatre is ghostrider883. Just wait for his post here

[+ghostrider883]

Tell me you wouldn't want to either be flying that tiger-striped Type 77 (Mig-21FL - cum PFM) or have it in your sights, as the case may be? Anyone know what sqdn it was assigned to? I remember an Air International artical long ago that I no longer have (after a flood destroyed much of my aviation collection in my cellar) which showed photos of it, plus lots of neat hasty camo applied to Indian Migs and SU-7s.

 

The Tiger striped MiG-21FL serial no. C-779 flew in the Eastern theater of operations and was assigned to No. 28 Sqdn "First Supersonics". For SF, Marcelo made this skin for the MiG-21PFM, I was able to convert it for use with howling1's MiG-21FL model(based on the MiG-21PF)

And yes, there were many different camos painted on Indian Su's and MiGs. No camo was applied on most of the aircraft that flew in the 1965 war.

[+allenjb42]

You should be able to add these to your order of battle soon if you need them:

 

 

[+ghostrider883]

No info on an Indo-Pakistan scenery forthcoming from anyone?

 

Mike

 

I made a IAF-PAF skin set(MiG-21FL, Vampire, Su-7, F-104,Canberra etc) made specifically for the terrain which were meant to be released with the terrain, campaign and a/c package( the Su-7 skin and MiG-21FL skin in my sig were for that package). I have that IAF-PAF 1965 and 1971 ORBATs somehwere on my HD. But without a proper terrain, all of this is useless.

Then there's IAF & PAF a/c specific mods like howling1's Type 77 Fishbed, MF's Type 74 MiG-21F-13, PAF Sabre Mk.6, PAF F-104A etc. With HF-24 being released, all fighters that took part in this theater are available, just needs a good terrain

Edited January 17, 2008 by ghostrider883

[mppd]

I'm still getting my feet wet with campaign files, but I shamelessly modified Melassal's Fiza'ya Eagles campaign into an Indian AF player side, just to try figure out how some of the campaign values work. I have poked thru all of the past messages for Campaign tutorial info. I currently have it flying over the stock desert terrain as Melassal did. I added the Marut with its two squadrons (just to play with my flight model). I finally figured out how to add the gunpod to the Mig-21FL (Type 77) and tweaked its flight model. Moving thru all of the different acft one by one now. Am playing with a new Sabre Mk.4 flight model now. Were these modified with AIM-9B rails/pylons?

 

Ghostrider, I'd love to see your markings pack. Could you release it for all of us to enjoy? I have downloaded EVERYTHING anyone has ever made which could apply to the 1971 war. Lots of schemes to enjoy. Perhaps with it out for everyone, someone with the ability I lack can come up with a terrain. I'm really looking for all of the Mig-21 markings now for starters.

 

Thanks,

Mike Druzolowski

[+ghostrider883]

I finally figured out how to add the gunpod to the Mig-21FL (Type 77) and tweaked its flight model. Moving thru all of the different acft one by one now. Am playing with a new Sabre Mk.4 flight model now. Were these modified with AIM-9B rails/pylons?

I though howling1's Type 77 hwas already rigged up for carrying a gunpod?? though it was set up for carrying an alternate soviet gunpod since we knew we did not have a GP-9 Gunpod model.

PAF Canadair Sabres were Mk.6s. No, these were not capable of carrying AIM-9s(or the ability was taken off). The lone PAF sqdn in East Pakistan(now B'desh) was flying these Mk.6s. These were supplied to supplement and replace PAF F-86F losses in the 1965 war. They were supplied to Pakistan in a clandestine deal between Iran, Germany and Pakistan(these airframes were ex-IIAF) and it had US backing, inspite of US embargo on weapon sales to Pakistan(and India) after the 65 war.

I take it that the attached tiger stripes screenie is of the MiG-21PFM skin by Marcelo on the MiG-21PF model....can make out that half black canopy frame . I do have a converted skin for it as well. witha proper canopy "covered up"

 

 

Ghostrider, I'd love to see your markings pack. Could you release it for all of us to enjoy? I have downloaded EVERYTHING anyone has ever made which could apply to the 1971 war. Lots of schemes to enjoy. Perhaps with it out for everyone, someone with the ability I lack can come up with a terrain. I'm really looking for all of the Mig-21 markings now for starters.

 

Thanks,

Mike Druzolowski

 

I can and will soon. Gues not much use of it anymore sitting idle on my HD. It will be one big package though .

Edited January 17, 2008 by ghostrider883

[mppd]

Thanks for the info. By all means, please, please release the package! The Type 77 I tried was the Eagles Campaign release, I only now see Howling's version had it installed already!

 

Any chance I could get the fixed canopy bitmap? I was going to find it myself tomorrow on my day off, but if already done...!

 

Thanks again,

Mike D.

[+ghostrider883]

Any chance I could get the fixed canopy bitmap? I was going to find it myself tomorrow on my day off, but if already done...!

 

 

Sure, will include that tiger sripes skin the package as well. Some of the skins that I did:

No. 1 Sqdn "Tigers"

F-104 killer - C750, mount of Flt Lt. B B Soni of No. 47 "Black Archers" Sqdn:

 

C1111 with bomb & missile markings

 

No. 29 Sqdn "Scorpions" with 3 F-104 kills to their credit

 

No. 30 Sqdn "Rhinos"

 

Tiger Stripes of No. 28 Sqdn:

 

There were also a couple of skins that were based on pictures...

Edited January 18, 2008 by ghostrider883

[+Wrench]

Mike, I've updated ALL of howling1's InAF Fishbeds ... they're all here (someplace!), check either in the 'cold war aircraft' section under MiG-21 or somewhere in that general vicinity!

 

There should be some pretty good hangar screens floating around for Indo-Pak stuff, if I do say so myself (execpting the Marut, which I forgot to do!!!) Right, Ghostrider???

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+ghostrider883]

There should be some pretty good hangar screens floating around for Indo-Pak stuff, if I do say so myself (execpting the Marut, which I forgot to do!!!) Right, Ghostrider???

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

Yup, your IAF & PAF specific hangar screens area great addition are a great addition to the mods itself . Those PAF F-86, F-104 screens rock!!!!

A Marut hangar screen.. IIRC there is only one Marut painting on BR.

[mppd]

Thanks for the replies you guys. As I said, I've downloaded literally EVERYTHING to do with the theater, just have not poked thru it all yet. Found the ACIG site long ago, they list lots of serial number assignments for both sides as well during the 71 war.

 

Ghostrider, can't wait for the release of your package! It will sure save me hours of work doing skins! I don't mind flying over the stock desert terrain for a while till something better comes along. Can I do anything to help you?

 

Anyone have a copy of the Air Enthusiast articals on the Indian AF Mig-21s and the 1971 war? It had several good photos and , my copy was destroyed. I'd pay for a scanned copy of the articals by anyone who could share it!

 

Mike D.

[+Gepard]

The problem of a India Pakistan terrain are the mountains. The AI planes could have the tendency to run against the hills. It could be also difficult to use Alt +N because of the danger of hitting the hills.

To build this terrain would require the terrain data for the heigh profile,( what is not the problem), then it would need a completly new texture set (who would make it) and finaly the order of battle, the knowledge, where to place the airfields, SAM sites and other target areas.

Would be a very big work. And then the problem with AI fly into the hills.

[+ghostrider883]

finaly the order of battle, the knowledge, where to place the airfields, SAM sites and other target areas.

 

I am fairly confident I can take care of the above points accurately as I have the books, resources and contacts. But building the terrain or the textures for it, can't help with it.

[+ghostrider883]

Let me first make my Street of Formosa terrain and then i will make the first steps for a India Pak terrain.

First steps means: i create the height data for you and make a first terraintiling with one of the standard tilesets. For the rest someone else should take over.

gepard,

as you may know, india's victory in the 1971 war lead to the creation of Bangladesh(formerly east pakistan). So, how about this? Instead of creating a indo-pak map concentrating on the western (kashmir regiön), how about a map of east pakistan and surrounding indian airbases. It should be a relatively smaller map to build? Agreed it would be a mismatch 1 PAF Sabre Mk.6 sqdn against Iaf's eastern air command.The INS vikrant & her escorts can be added to this theater. Lots of fictional...well almost... themes possible. USN 6TH fleet & PLAAF coming to pakistan's aid, Russia coming to india's aid.

[mppd]

It's been a year since the last post on this thread - has anyone been working on an India -Pakistan campaign? There are a few new planes out now - the Gnat and Marut, plus several Mig-21 mods. I still would have loved a campaign to play either side for both the 65 and 71 conflicts, plus terrains for both East and West theaters.

 

I'd still love to fly that tiger striped Mig-21 in some missions or a campaign. Same for PAF F-86s, F-104s, and Marut. All these planes are just calling out for a campaign! Would love to fly both sides.

 

Thanks,

Mike D.

Edited March 16, 2009 by mppd

[mppd]

I too am very sorry that any time this conflict is brought up, harsh words are spoken. I simply find these two aerial battles fascinating in that it brought some interesting 60s-vintage fighters into conflict.

 

I am an aviation enthusiast, and a bit of a historian and rivet counter. Having no political leanings, I would gladly play both sides. Sorry this is so upsetting to some. If I have to - I'll do my best to develop this alone, and when I'm done, I'll be sure to share it with no one because it might cause hurt feelings...

 

Go figure.

[mppd]

I'm really interested in the two conflicts mentioned (1965 and 1971) and Ghostrider883 already has a lot of the great Mig-21 color schemes and decals that I have already downloaded from here and AVSIM, and I need to poke thru them all. Is there a hi-rez Mig-21 skin that has been made by someone - the old 512 pixel skins are a bit aged now.

 

Is there a suitable terrain yet that would work for east and west theaters?

 

I'm a bit involved right now with Crab_02 on the F-4 mods, but the India-Pakistan campaign keeps popping into my head.

 

Anyone made an updated version of that Tiger striped Mig-21?

 

Thanks,

Mike

[+KnightWolf45]

hi im ofering help to bluid this a india pakistan campaing if some need help just send mi a PM i can bluid the campaing or do outer stuff that might be needed

 

hope to help in this great project.

 

cocas

[+Dave]

This is just like any other mod we make, covering every conflict. Keep the politics out of it from here on out. Mod the sim, discuss the other crap elsewhere.

[santro]

I think the west side of the terrain exists in some form.. albiet without detailed height maps and installations.

How ever the east can be done a lot quicker if we simply reuse the vietnam tile sets.

a lot of similar geograpy in the reigon.. wetlands. .rice paddys..similar huts..

so the 1971 eastern campaign should be easy. considering one side only had one squadron out there.

The western side is another story..

At the end of the war a lot of arab contries supplied equipment.. some of which was put into action directly.. although Im not sure whether any of it was used after the cease fire or before.

Im currently working on PAF skins for the MF mirage IIIE and BA..

[mppd]

I would welcome your help. Ghostrider883 and cocas have volunteered to pitch in also. I have a quick campaign for the 71 war that I stuck together using the fiza'ya eagles Campaign by melassal, reverse-engineered so that it's flyable from the Indian side.

 

I am going to need some help, as I'm not so concerned with the actual course of the campaign or ground war, my intent is just to pit the various airplanes in the air with mostly historical skins, decals, and squadron numbers. And I definately need that tiger striped Mig-21!!

 

Can someone fill me in on what would be needed for a realistic Mig-21 that was flying in the 1971 campaign? How far off is the visual model of the Mig-21 in the game?