Mig-23 HUD

[+Brain32]

I tried to just move the radar cap/cover/what' it called and that thing right of the gunsight to try to get modern mig-21 cockpit but...I didn't know how

[kukulino]

I have not idea how can I do it too

 

Sooo, gents, take a look on post number 19 from ArtuR (in this topic). We have very nice photos.

Anybody know something about this HUD?

[+Wrench]

We also don't have the 'symbology' used for Soviet HUDs...but that should be a relatively easy fix, by just creating new tgas for them, and assinging them in the avionics ini (just like the stock F-15, or MF' Hornet, or etc)

 

As the the moves...again, I must reccomend Lexx's superb thread over at the 3rd Wire Forums,

 

Basically, what the 'move' does, is well, move the item in question. In our discussion for the the F4U-2 Corsair NF, Lexx has told me you can only move items up/down or left/right (x or z axis). -edit: actaullly, you can also 'rotate' an item to make it invivible...this was done on the Phantom pit for the original realease 2+ years ago for the F-16. To know exacty what node or 3d mesh your moving requires

1) a hex editor to open the cockpit lod to search for the suspected node or

2) the cockpit OUT file, which is generated by 3dMax. It lists the nodes in a family-tree orientation, just like Windows Explorer does ie:

 

Panel

gauge1

gauge2

needle 1

needle 2

 

Unfortunatley, the Fishbed pits didn't come with their OUT files in the zip (nor for that matter, do we have acsess to any of the stock 3rdW pit OUTs), which means a lot of work on someone's part to figure out the exact node/mesh name.

Just like doing decals on an aircraft...you need to mesh name to apply the decal

 

What makes is more difficult, is naming conventions....not everyone uses the obvious.

Below is from AD's Fitter pit OUT:

 

Box11 (20 polys, 60 verts) '21 - Default'

Line14 (16 polys, 48 verts) '4 - Default'

Line08 (28 polys, 84 verts) '4 - Default'

Cylinder07 (24 polys, 72 verts) '4 - Default'

GearHandle (104 polys, 312 verts) '4 - Default'

Plane07 (2 polys, 6 verts) '14 - Default'

lights_gear_left (28 polys, 84 verts) '11 - Default'

lights_gear_front (28 polys, 84 verts) '11 - Default'

lights_gear_right (28 polys, 84 verts) '11 - Default'

Cylinder67 (8 polys, 24 verts) '6 - Default'

Cylinder54 (8 polys, 24 verts) '6 - Default'

Cylinder72 (8 polys, 24 verts) '6 - Default'

Cylinder71 (8 polys, 24 verts) '6 - Default'

Cylinder70 (8 polys, 24 verts) '6 - Default'

Cylinder69 (8 polys, 24 verts) '6 - Default'

 

How is one supposed to know what gauge 'cylinder67' is?

 

In another example, this one is from the Yak-3:

 

Mainpanel (232 polys, 696 verts) '01 - Default'

Centerpanel (44 polys, 132 verts) '02 - Default'

DrehKnopf (36 polys, 108 verts) '04 - Default'

needle_alt10000 (96 polys, 288 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_alt1000 (96 polys, 288 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_alt100 (96 polys, 288 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_Speed (96 polys, 288 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_Pitch (96 polys, 288 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_Hour (70 polys, 210 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_Minute (70 polys, 210 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_Second (70 polys, 210 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_VASI (70 polys, 210 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_Fuel (30 polys, 90 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_OILPress (70 polys, 210 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_Oxi1 (30 polys, 90 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_Oxi2 (96 polys, 288 verts) '09 - Default'

SlipBall (36 polys, 108 verts) '09 - Default'

Needle_turn (6 polys, 18 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_AMP (30 polys, 90 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_AMP01 (30 polys, 90 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_OilTemp (30 polys, 90 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_OilQant (30 polys, 90 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_Fuel_temp (30 polys, 90 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_RPM100 (96 polys, 288 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_Manifold (96 polys, 288 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_OilBack (96 polys, 288 verts) '09 - Default'

needle_RPM1000 (96 polys, 288 verts) '09 - Default'

 

You can see, these are pretty clearly marked, mind you, these are just the instrument needles, but you get the idea.

 

A LOT of guesswork is still involved. The cockpit ini also of great help, as it usially list what insturment is what node; again this if from the Yak-3:

 

[PitchSolid]

Type=PITCH_INDICATOR

NodeName=needle_Pitch <- note 'NodeName'

MovementType=ROTATION_Z

ValueUnit=DEG

Set[01].Position=-175

Set[01].Value=-90

Set[02].Position=175

Set[02].Value=90

 

[VerticalAirSpeed]

Type=VERTICAL_VELOCITY_INDICATOR

NodeName=needle_VASI

MovementType=ROTATION_Z

ValueUnit=Feet

Set[01].Position=-175

Set[01].Value=-80

Set[02].Position=175

Set[02].Value=80

 

[TurnIndicator]

Type=TURN_INDICATOR

NodeName=needle_turn

MovementType=ROTATION_Z

ValueUnit=DEG

Set[01].Position=30.0

Set[01].Value=-10.0

Set[02].Position=0.0

Set[02].Value=0.0

Set[03].Position=-30.0

Set[03].Value=10.0

 

And there's STILL going to be a lot of trial and error.......

 

It's something I'd love to duplicate....recreate as close as possible that Flogger D pit in the screenie, by somehow using the Phantom pit, removing all the 2nd engines gauges, moving the radar display over and up, and so forth.

 

We can only hope Paladrain, or some other 3d modeler takes up the challenge.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[gerald14]

We also don't have the 'symbology' used for Soviet HUDs...but that should be a relatively easy fix, by just creating new tgas for them, and assinging them in the avionics ini (just like the stock F-15, or MF' Hornet, or etc)

 

As the the moves...again, I must reccomend Lexx's superb thread over at the 3rd Wire Forums,

 

Basically, what the 'move' does, is well, move the item in question. In our discussion for the the F4U-2 Corsair NF, Lexx has told me you can only move items up/down or left/right (x or z axis). -edit: actaullly, you can also 'rotate' an item to make it invivible...this was done on the Phantom pit for the original realease 2+ years ago for the F-16. To know exacty what node or 3d mesh your moving requires

1) a hex editor to open the cockpit lod to search for the suspected node or

2) the cockpit OUT file, which is generated by 3dMax. It lists the nodes in a family-tree orientation, just like Windows Explorer does ie:

 

Panel

gauge1

gauge2

needle 1

needle 2

 

Unfortunatley, the Fishbed pits didn't come with their OUT files in the zip (nor for that matter, do we have acsess to any of the stock 3rdW pit OUTs), which means a lot of work on someone's part to figure out the exact node/mesh name.

Just like doing decals on an aircraft...you need to mesh name to apply the decal

 

What makes is more difficult, is naming conventions....not everyone uses the obvious.

Below is from AD's Fitter pit OUT:

How is one supposed to know what gauge 'cylinder67' is?

 

In another example, this one is from the Yak-3:

You can see, these are pretty clearly marked, mind you, these are just the instrument needles, but you get the idea.

 

A LOT of guesswork is still involved. The cockpit ini also of great help, as it usially list what insturment is what node; again this if from the Yak-3:

And there's STILL going to be a lot of trial and error.......

 

It's something I'd love to duplicate....recreate as close as possible that Flogger D pit in the screenie, by somehow using the Phantom pit, removing all the 2nd engines gauges, moving the radar display over and up, and so forth.

 

We can only hope Paladrain, or some other 3d modeler takes up the challenge.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

I tried to do that with the Mig-21MF pit for the Mig-21bis but I had some success. Like wrench said it is very hard! Thats why I used the F-104 pit with Wrench's HUD data for the F-104 and repainted.

[kukulino]

Paladrian, HEEEELP PLEASEEEEEE!!!

 

Well, we can not have everything

Paladrian is working on Mig-17 (or 15?) cocpit and this is BIG THING TOO :spartak: :fans:

Edited November 13, 2007 by kukulino

[+Gepard]

Fubar, thanks for the hint. Avionics70.dll was my mistake. Now i try to make a working HUD for the MiG-23

[kukulino]

Now i try to make a working HUD for the MiG-23

WOW, ANOTHER BIG THING!!! THANX Gepard

We have here many BIG MIG THINGS in last few days

[ArturR]

Artur-M/MF/MS/ME all have "classical" cockpits, with CRT tubes only the radar is different (and engine in some ME/MS). That is, similar to MiG-21BIS.

 

Look this

 

 

This is cockpit of Polish MiG-23 MF version, there is no crt tube all infos are displayed on ASP-23DE gunsight. I have some drawings of this sight, but I must find them in my archive ;-))

 

p.s. I don't known about ME version, what is this type?!

Edited November 13, 2007 by ArturR

[+Paladrian]

To delete the recording camera in MiG-21MF cockpit, or the "that thing to the right of the gunsight" follow these steps: Open Cabina_MiG-21MF and find this line:

 

Instrument[119]=MNM02

 

Below the previous line add the following lines:

 

Instrument[120]=DeleteCamera

 

[DeleteCamera]

Type=ACCELEROMETER

NodeName=Camara

MovementType=Light

Set[01].Position=0.0

Set[01].Value=-20.0

Set[02].Position=0.0

Set[02].Value=20.0

 

And that's it. The radar screen is another matter, even if you do remove the radar you would be left with a big hole where the radar was. I suggest you use Su-17 cockpit for later versions, or wait for Florian's MiG-21UM with radarless cockpit

 

Artur, I was going to post the same observation :yes:

[kukulino]

Many Mig-23 avionics info. It is forum. Helpfull, maybe :yes:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/inde...topic,25.0.html

 

To Paladrian: Amokfloo is working on UM, but I am not sure that he has new pit for his mig (he posted external views of his mig only). But I hope

 

THANX for help. I am going to delete "that thing to the right of the gunsight"

Edited November 14, 2007 by kukulino

[+Crusader]

ArturR is right, only the MS (of full production planes) has a radar scope. And MiG-21bis avionics/radar .

The walkaround pictures in the link above are of a MiG-23S Flogger-A , which is an early variant which wasnt full production, it has 21bis avionics too due to a delay in Sapfir-23 radar production/get-it-ready-for-service thingo.

All full production M/MF/ML/MLA/MLD/P ( all variants with Sapfir-23 and derivatives ) have NO scope. All data is displayed on the HUD, including IRST output.

 

The "HUD" is not like a western-style HUD, its not a primary flight instrument. The Flogger HUD ("SEI" which means something like Data Display/Indicator) is for weapon/radar/attack info displays, and has few indicators for own plane status.

[Jarhead1]

I will be happy when a good MiG-23/27 Flogger pit comes out

[+nele]

ArtuR and Crusader are right, and I was wrong-they have NO display :

 

 

MiG-23M

 

MiG-23MF

 

 

MLD

 

However, sights of M/MF are "Soviet" manner of HUD, since they are servoed analogue reflected systems (Like AWG-10 on F-4J). You can see that the sight "head" is different.

 

Now I am reading!

 

MiG-23M(E). Soviet designation for R-27 engined models of MS.

[+Crusader]

I hear you nele LOL

its hard work to get reliable info on soviet kites, and to many pics on the net are labeld wrong... its a night mare ...

the sights.. yes... its a whole series for itself

your info is always appreciated !

[+Gepard]

 

 

 

 

This is the HUD which i made for my MiG-23MK carrierborne fighter. I used Magos excellent MiG-21MF cockpit and modified HUD files of MarcFighters Su-27.

 

What do you think about it?

[+Fubar512]

What do you think about it?

 

Very nice. I'd also follow Paladrian's (Mago's) directions for removing the camera housing and prism, as it would improve visibilty a bit.

[kukulino]

This is the HUD which i made for my MiG-23MK carrierborne fighter. I used Magos excellent MiG-21MF cockpit and modified HUD files of MarcFighters Su-27.

 

What do you think about it?

 

I need doctor, I think...

Edited November 14, 2007 by kukulino

[ArturR]

COOOL Gepard

I have found some drawings of sight

Gun mode

 

 

This when radar is jammed, on left pasive jaming, on right active jam

 

This is radar homing missile mode

 

I know that on left line is displayed "range" to target. Right bar is altitude information, but don't know whose -Our? Target? There is aim dot, and circle which determine where is target.

[+Fubar512]

Taking an intuative guess, I say that the sideways "V" (caret) on the altitude scale reprents the MiG-23's altitude, and the symbol marked "9", the target's altitude.

[Wolf65]

@Gepard

How did you make the hud go behing that metal thing to the right?

[+Julhelm]

How about making a semi-transparent .tga as a radar ppi image and stick that on the hud, setting it up like the usual radar?

[+Paladrian]

ArtuR and Crusader are right, and I was wrong-they have NO display :

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/mig23m/mig23m-10.jpg

MiG-23M

 

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/mig23mf/mig23mf-10.jpg

MiG-23MF

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/mig23mld/mig23mld-7.jpg

MLD

 

However, sights of M/MF are "Soviet" manner of HUD, since they are servoed analogue reflected systems (Like AWG-10 on F-4J). You can see that the sight "head" is different.

 

Now I am reading!

 

MiG-23M(E). Soviet designation for R-27 engined models of MS.

 

 

According to what I have (4+ MiG-23 book), the first photo in your post corresponds to MiG-23MF, and the second one to MiG-23ML. Still no photo of MiG-23M, but then again maybe M and MF are the same

 

 

That's looking great Gepard

[+Paladrian]

How about making a semi-transparent .tga as a radar ppi image and stick that on the hud, setting it up like the usual radar?

 

 

I tried that once, but the radar does not support any transparency whatsoever, but I think it would be easier for TK to allow transparent radar, less work I suppose

[+Crusader]

from an old Keypublishing forum thread, original posted there by "Overscan":

 

 

1 - Indicators of passive ("PP") and active ("AP") jamming;

2 - The "break away" ("OTV") command;

3 - Range to target scale;

4 - Maximum range value depending on the mode of the targeting system (it changes as the interceptor closes on target);

5 - Indicators of a lock on target by ("A") the radar or ("TP") the IRST;

6 - The maximum values of the set altitudes of flight, depending on the targeting system mode (1,5km for a low flying target, 15km for a medium to high flying target);

7 - Flight altitude scale;

8 - Artificial horizon line;

9 - Central crosshair of the display;

10 - Indicators of uncompromised indication of course ("K") and pitch ("G");

11 - A-A missile launch permission indicators;

12 - Indicators of the directional position of the axis of the antenna of the radar during launching of missiles (indicator of the exact aiming during firing of

rockets or guns);

13 - guidance indicator (the aiming circle only appears during the operation of the targeting system in the manual mode of airplane control);

14 - guidance indicator (the small aiming circle only appears during instrument

guidance of plane to target);

15 - actual (current) range to target;

16 - IRST gate indicator;

17 - actual (current) flight altitude;

18 - target identification indicator (friend or foe);

19 - target indicator;

20 - number of the scanning lane (the scanning zone is divided into few lanes), on which the movement of the antenna currently occurs; [i think this means current scan line or bar]

21 - the command "PR" - missile launch permitted;

22 - the max and min range of missile launch;

23 - the range of target interception (lockon) by the radar;

 

(Translation thanks to Leszek from acig.org forums)

__________________

Paul Martell-Mead / Overscan

 

and also by Overscan, translation of the russian text by SwingKid :

 

 

Off the top of my head (no dictionary):

 

Evidence of a night intercept of an aerial intruder by Sergey Talanov over Khost, winter of 1988 - film from gun camera PAU-473. After takeoff from Bagram the MiG-23MLD pilot detected a target at 27 km range with the help of the "Sapfir-23ML" radar, and locked it up. At left - range scale, at right - altitude; the "A" symbol indicates "lock", the circle marks the target to the right and above the fighter, glowing positions "2" and "4" [note: should be "3" and "4"?] indicates R-24R missiles are ready for launch (frame No. 3). During the approach to the target the target mark is aligned with the crosshairs, on the range scale is indicated minimum and maximum launch range R-24R and the command "back off" before switching to close combat mode [?] (frame No. 4). Target is located 3 km directly ahead, range scale switches to 20 km and then to 3 km more accurate display, at which time all missiles are ready for launch - glowing stations "1", "2", "3", "4" and "PR" - "Launch Authorized". The vertical "keel" in the center of the display indicates readiness to fire with the cannon (frame No. 6).

The attack was broken off by order from the ground control, fearing error in intercepting a target that was not visually identified, which could have been an Afghan or "neutral".

 

-SK

 

--------------------

 

Enjoy...

MJ

[+Gepard]

Wolf, i made the HUD in 2 parts. One is replacing the file mira.tga (The one, who is hide in the right side) and the rest is avionics.ini settings.

Edited November 15, 2007 by Gepard