Century Series

[+hgbn 91]

Well, regardless of how they rate, they are some purposeful and mean looking aircraft. In sharp contrast to planes like the F-22, which are infinitely more capable but have a strange, almost cartoonish and unrealistic appearance.

 

I second that

 

But again complettly new designs regardless of whatever timeframe they emerged looks funny in most peoples mind, Just like the Century series when they appeared in the 50's, just look of some of the names Starfighter for an exsample. And the lines of the the Delta Dagger

[+Dave 2,322]

no, not in the beginning...

The Thud pilots in 1965/66 were the best, they all came from TAC squadrons....

the bombing got worse when the higher-ups decided that every USAF pilots has to make one 100 missions over the north tour in SEA ....or die trying...

then came all the transport and bomber pilots who got a quick, couple of weeks conversion course, + all the new pilots directly out of flying school...

the first team in 65/66 were all professionals ( well, ompared to what came later )

 

105 :ph34r:

 

But TAC in 1965/66 was not teaching conventional roles they taught nuclear delivery. They were the best at that, most had no clue on conventional delivery. TAC is the 60's was geared for a nuclear shootout, that was the only way they could get a piece of the budget that SAC was taking up.

[+Corktip_14 0]

A pretty good exemple about that is, IMHO, "Every Man a tiger" by Clancy and General Chuck Horner.

[+Crusader 2,101]

But TAC in 1965/66 was not teaching conventional roles they taught nuclear delivery. They were the best at that, most had no clue on conventional delivery. TAC is the 60's was geared for a nuclear shootout, that was the only way they could get a piece of the budget that SAC was taking up.

 

yep, but the "complete" TAC squadron pilots had far more hours in the 105, and so could concentrate on bombing... more experienced in the 105. the conversion guys coming from transport and tankers and who knows what... go figure.

[+Dave 2,322]

yep, but the "complete" TAC squadron pilots had far more hours in the 105, and so could concentrate on bombing... more experienced in the 105. the conversion guys coming from transport and tankers and who knows what... go figure.

 

Very true, those pilots had 100 and 100s of hours in the Thud. But well over 90% had never drop a conventional load.

[+Crusader 2,101]

yea.. but they got proficent super fast .. in 65/66

[TeTeT 0]

F-104 -- C+, the hardest to rate, very fast in a straight line, poor maneuverability, unbelievable that Lockheed has such export success while the USAF quickly dumped it

 

I guess that can be attributed to clever salesmen rather than on performance characteristics. In (West-)Germany at least the F-104 earned an awful reputation for falling out of the sky. But then, it was most likely not the worlds smartest idea to use a high altitude interceptor as a ground pounder.

[+Gocad 26]

I guess that can be attributed to clever salesmen rather than on performance characteristics.

 

Actually you don't even need clever salesmen when you're dealing with a customer who has no clue at all...

[JediMaster 451]

My vote for ugliest century plane -- the F-107!

 

My favorite is the one not built, the F-108.

[Toryu 156]

The "bad reputation" on the 104 only existed in the press and public mind.

No pilot ever expressed distrust in the 104. Any alumnus 104 driver I had the chance to talk to

loved his ole Zipper.

 

The problems, the Lw had with the 104 were man-made.

The a/c were rushed into service much faster than the MX circuit could acommodate.

 

There was no ground-support avaliable at first.

Aircraft were standing outside for weeks.

Rain/ snow made it's way into the electronics bay and caused many malfunctions.

 

Pilots didn't get enough flight-hours at first.

Many of them got overconfident or CFITed. (there was one pilot who pitched-up while trying to fly the quickest visual-pattern)

Crrash-reates peaked in '65 (fith year of operations).

After that, a newly established programme which called for more flight-hours per pilot

helped to drop the rash-ratio.

Furthermore, a 0/0 seat was put in.

In fact, the 104 was much safer than many contemporary fighters.

Take the F-100 or F-8 for comparison.

Bad wx was a serious issue - the Canadian Air Force operated in similar conditions as the Lw and Marine and had similar

accident-rates, whereas other air-forces in "nicer" places, did much better.

 

The original Lw fighter-programme seeked for a fighter that could deliver a single nuke at low alt as far as possible.

The 104 fit right in. Neither the Mirage III, nor the proposed "Super Tiger" could match the 104 in that regard.

The 104 was a better recce platform than both jets mentioned above and it had the best A-A performance.

 

When NATO changed it's policy to "flexible response" in '67 (?), the 104 quickly showed deficiencies.

It's recce-potential was considered unsatisfactory. Thus, all RF-104Gs were phased out and the Lw ordered RF-4Es

as successor. (AG 51, based at Leck and AG 52, based at Bremgarten)

At the same time, it got evident that the 104's A-A envelope was quite tight (it handled best above M 1.0).

Therefore, A-A could only be trained above the North Sea, as sonic-booms would annoy public life.

 

Therefore, the Lw was forced to search for a new, interim fighter (originally, the Panavia Tornado was planned

to fit the fighter-role as well). It quickly became obvious that only one fighter would meet the requirements:

The F-4 Phantom. What was initially planned to be a single-seater version came out as a "stripped-down"

F-4E, called F-4F. It was the first Rhino, to get the maneuvre-slats right from the start.

Two Fighter-wings transitioned from the Zipper to the Rhino (JG 71 at Wittmund and JG 72 at Neuburg).

 

As the 104's lack of payload-capability became obvious, it was clear that some pressure had to be taken off

the 104-community. Consequently, JaboG 36 (based at Hopsten) transitioned to the Rhino and one light

Fighter-Bomber Wing transitioned from the G.91 to the Rhino (JaboG 35 at Pferdsfeld).

 

The two fighter-wings had A-G missions as secondary role, while the two fighter-bomber wings trained A-A as secondary role.

 

JaboG 31 (at Nörvenich), JaboG 32 (at Lechfeld), JaboG 33 (at Büchel) and JaboG 34 (at Memmingen)

continued to use the F-104G in it's fighter-bomber role until it was taken over by the Tornado.

 

The german navy-wings (MFG 1 and MFG 2) used both, the RF-104G and F-104G all the time.

MFG 1 was the first NATO-unit to transition to Tornados and MFG 2, together with JaboG 34 was the last

Starfighter-flying active-unit.

Some pilots that were "too old" to transition to the Tornado, or that were simply quite far down the list for

conversion-courses, flew their required hours in a special F-104-wing at Erding during the

104 phaseout-days.

 

Out of the 916 F-104s the Lw and Marine had, 292 were written off, killing 116 pilots.

[BUFF 8]

I guess that can be attributed to clever salesmen rather than on performance characteristics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_bribery_scandals ...?

 

The Luftwaffe was very keen on a Saunders Roe design & suddenly did a complete about face to the Starfighter.