The Balance of Power in the Southern Hemisphere

[Stick 773]

I was simply looking up the latest developments from Sukhoi and came across an interesting site. It even has a black n white picture of an F-14 in Soviet hands.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker.html

Check it out.

[Caesar 305]

This pic was discussed before. It's an edited photo of an F-14 ferrying to Iran with watercolor US markings. The editor changed the front star n' bar with the numbers, which if you notice do not conform to the fuselage, and tacked a Soviet star onto the tail. Then, they changed the photo from color to black and white.

 

http://www.tomcat-sunset.org/forums/index.php?topic=2475.15

 

Page 2, Tom Cooper responds to pic with real pic.

 

"It shows the F-14A BuAerNo. 160327, later IIAF/IRIAF "3-6029" - a Tomcat still very much in Iranian service."

Edited March 13, 2008 by Caesar

[+Dave 2,322]

This pic was discussed before. It's an edited photo of an F-14 ferrying to Iran with watercolor US markings. The editor changed the front star n' bar with the numbers, which if you notice do not conform to the fuselage, and tacked a Soviet star onto the tail. Then, they changed the photo from color to black and white.

 

http://www.tomcat-sunset.org/forums/index.php?topic=2475.15

 

Page 2, Tom Cooper responds to pic with real pic.

 

"It shows the F-14A BuAerNo. 160327, later IIAF/IRIAF "3-6029" - a Tomcat still very much in Iranian service."

 

After seeing that edited pic (again) , I think this really brings to light the ignorance of the author of that article. I wonder how much he got paid by Sukoi for that piece?

[Stick 773]

I am suitably enlightened. Truth to tell I didnt really bother with the credibility of the Author or veracity of the F-14 picture. He was discussing the Flanker and the consternation that defence adminsistrations around the world have been thrown into. You cannot deny it is one of the most superlative examples of flying machinery ever to come out of Russia, perhaps the only aircraft that lived up to the hype that the West would create every time something new was heard of from behind the Iron curtain.The subject was the Flanker,the picture was only of peripheral interest.

On the same subject the Russians have played a good game by selling such a capable aircraft to nearly everybody who wanted one.

[+Dave 2,322]

No doubt the SU-27 series and beyond are excellent fighters. It just makes my head hurt when I see a lack of attention to detail on a well known photograph.

[+Jug 99]

I am suitably enlightened. Truth to tell I didnt really bother with the credibility of the Author or veracity of the F-14 picture. He was discussing the Flanker and the consternation that defence adminsistrations around the world have been thrown into. You cannot deny it is one of the most superlative examples of flying machinery ever to come out of Russia, perhaps the only aircraft that lived up to the hype that the West would create every time something new was heard of from behind the Iron curtain.The subject was the Flanker,the picture was only of peripheral interest.

On the same subject the Russians have played a good game by selling such a capable aircraft to nearly everybody who wanted one.

 

At the dollars per unit level, I am of the opinion we should buy some too. Replace our aging F-15 fleet.

[JediMaster 451]

We could just as easily replace them with new F-15s (which are still in production) and be better off. To alter those Flankers to work with our weapons and logistics would negate any perceived savings.

[Stick 773]

Indeed the fire control system is far below what one would expect to be a threat or counter to Western fighters. Having actually appraised both versions of the SU-30 I can confidently say this- the first version that came in and was used for training our pilots (Hawks)was of a standard comparable to the F-15 A/B. Those were rather crude in build and finish and I was loathe to believe they were the vaunted Flankers. Even my father who is a commercial pilot(on an A-330)and the consumate judge of aircraft was very dissapointed. Despite the jaw dropping acrobatics and incredible maneouvres that had become the standard course of things until recently here at Lohegaon, I was of the opinion that yet again we Indians had gotten the bad end of the bargain especially since our neighbours had procured the same aircraft.

However when the Lightnings inducted the MkI version I shook myself like a spaniel coming out of a stupour. Now that bird is a lean mean fighting machine. Maybe our defence department and fat politicians didnt strike such a bad bargain. Max load maybe 4 tons less than that of the F-15E but its got the Strike Eagle by the feathers on other counts. And the other thing that really matters is that the pilots in this particular squadron are really good.

[PigDriver 0]

Ah yes, Carlo Kopp. His name is mud with a capital 'M' in Australian military circles. His insistance that a "Super F-111" retrofitted with F-22 engines coupled with the F-22 is the only choice for Australia's air power future, mainly because he and his engineering buddy Peter Goon came up with the idea and stand to gain financially if it were selected and any other alternative would see the Chinese flag being hoisted over Parliament House.

Basically, the guy has a major right-wing paranoia over China and can't stand the thought of an RAAF without the F-111. If you read some of his stuff, his whole argument for an F-22/F-111 force mix seems to be pinned on a strategy whereby the PLAAF attacks our off-shore oil installations and every RAAF base north of Amberley with the TU-22s they don't have. Then of course there's those pesky SU-30s flooding into the region.

For one, the only country with SU-30s who inconceivably may use them against us -- and it's a very big "may" -- Indonesia, only has four and can't afford to arm them. The rest: Malaysia, we have a long standing mutual defence agreement with and have an RAAF attachment at RMAF Butterworth, and China and India, apart from the fact that our mineral resources are powering their energy industries for the conceivable future, would need excessive tanker and ISR assets to carry out such an attack.

The fact is that yes, the SU-30 is a capable aircraft, but it is in such insufficient numbers and questionable reliability with our near neighbours, that it will be easily countered by Aussie Super Hornets and F-35s, especially when supported by Wedgetails, KC-30Bs and the Jindalee Over the Horizon Radar Network, not to mention the superior training recieved by RAAF pilots.

Edited March 18, 2008 by PigDriver

[JediMaster 451]

Retrofit F-111's with the F-22's engines??! Hardly. Talk about expensive for little practical gain.

[PigDriver 0]

For one, the only country with SU-30s who inconceivably may use them against us

Of course, I meant conceivably.

[Panjilucu 0]

The fact is that yes, the SU-30 is a capable aircraft, but it is in such insufficient numbers and questionable reliability with our near neighbours, that it will be easily countered by Aussie Super Hornets and F-35s, especially when supported by Wedgetails, KC-30Bs and the Jindalee Over the Horizon Radar Network, not to mention the superior training recieved by RAAF pilots.

 

 

Yup! you're right only gun-armed 2 Su-27SK and 2 Su-30(or is it Su-27UB), our government trying to add AA-10 Alamo, some dumb FAB bombs and another 6 Flanker around 2008/2009, Not sure about ECM capability. Frankly, i think all those thing won't do much, whereas military budget cuttted and relocated to settle natural/man-made disaster (read: porong sidoarjo mud flood). And... a lot lot lot of economic corruption

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Ah yes, Carlo Kopp. His name is mud with a capital 'M' in Australian military circles.

 

You know... I remember a time when he knew his s**t and it wasn't that long ago. He and Peter Goon do have a vast knowledge on the subjects of the F-111, long range strike but when it comes to the subject of 'regional threats', best to plug in your ipod. I've sat in on a couple of lectures/presentations when I used to work in Canberra, but hearing him talk in private, I realised that this man has his head up his arse, and I mean that with all due respect.

The anti china stance I can deal with because China does have that polarising effect on people, but it's completely irrelevant to the situation here in Oz. And his opinion of Indonesia doesn't seem to be very high or justified. From what I saw, he has an almost fanatical faith in the pig which I think is unfounded iven it's age and it's operational usage. He firmly believes (at least he did at one point) that having the F-22/F-111 combination is the best OCA/DCA/Strike mix for the RAAF and if you disagree with that, then "you're just plain wrong". Now, it'd be a good combination but it's very much out of context with what we can afford, what we are able to purchase, what could ably meet future threats etc. I dunno, i got the impression of a trainspotter overall. Much like I'm sounding now!