A lot to ask

[hurricane3 2]

I even hate to ask this question, because I think it goes against the way Thirdwire works, but is there the slighest chance that for us who are not really modder's at heart but would just like to fly ,that a patch could be made to make addon weapons and new markings for addon planes show up?

I know FE is designed for modder's and maybe I have no right to ask this as the game engine won't allow it,but I'd love to be able to easliy(read user friendly) be able to get back my rockets and get new skins and markings to show up,with out a lot of hassle.

I don't even know how the weapos editor works and really have no desire to learn .

I'am afraid to download any further patches or EP's as I might lose what I have.I still run the old pre EP FM's on the older pre EP planes and am happy with them.They may not be the most accurate but they work for me.

I know I'am in the minority here ,but it doesn't look like there's going to be any other WWI sims around for a while except OFF and I'am darned if I'am going to do a six hour download of a whole list of files ,just for part one.Grenich is really dragging their feet and I doubt my computer would run it anyway.

So I've vented my frustrations and maybe because of the type of sim it is have no right to,but at 60 I just want to fly and not spend all my time screwing things up.

Please don't take this the wrong way,maybe if I don't want to mod I shouldn't be flying FE and I'am happy with what I've got,but was just hopeing for an easyier way to make things like they were pre EP other than install another copy of the sim.

Thanks for making a fine sim otherwise and if it has to stay the way it is ,thats ok and I really hope I didn't step on anyones toes as thats not my intention.

[BUFF 8]

it's really upto the addon authors to update their files (should they wish to) to work with the expansion.

It's more sensible to make addons work with the core engine than change the engine to fit the addons ...

[+Tailspin 3]

hurricane. Tk's sims all work right out of the box. He made it easy to mod but I don't think its reasonable to expect TK to adapt his sims to mods. It works the other way around. In lieu of someone making an all-inclusive mega mod pack (which even then it will likely only work with the current iteration of the sim and it will need updating to reflect updates in the sim), if you're going to use 3rd party mods, you're going to have to learn how to perform the basic tasks ie. how to edit .ini files (mostly just a cut or copy and paste) and how to use the basic tools, ie. the weapon editor, to install them in the first place and to keep up with the ever evolving nature of the sim and the necessary adjustments to your existing mods. Its not that difficult but it can get a bit tedious, for sure. There are so many different mods and so many people have different installs, IMHO there is not an easy "just drop this file in your game and go" way to do it and not lose your own personal version if the sim. This goes for the weapon.ini, object.ini, target.ini, types.ini, and so forth. This is exactly the situation you ran into with the weapon.data and the changes made for the EP. Someone just gave you what worked at the time, the sim changed, and you're back stuck where you were before. We have discussed the pros and cons of making a Mega Pack type package before but with things in flux, as the sim is still being improved by Thirdwire, its not likely to happen in the near future. So the way I see for now you have a few options. 1. Sticking with the stock Thirdwire game. 2. Using 3rd party mods as you can and accepting the compatibility issues. 3. Learning to updated your 3rd party mods to fix those compatibility issues. 4. Finding someone to give you the modded files you need to get what you want. The problem with that is there is no guarantee that won't mess up something else in your install that works now. IMHO (if you want to use 3rd party mods), the only really viable option for your continued enjoyment of the sim is #3.

 

 

BTW...I'm pushing 53 and they didn't have computers when I was a young'un either.

[hurricane3 2]

hurricane. Tk's sims all work right out of the box. He made it easy to mod but I don't think its reasonable to expect TK to adapt his sims to mods. It works the other way around. In lieu of someone making an all-inclusive mega mod pack (which even then it will likely only work with the current iteration of the sim and it will need updating to reflect updates in the sim), if you're going to use 3rd party mods, you're going to have to learn how to perform the basic tasks ie. how to edit .ini files (mostly just a cut or copy and paste) and how to use the basic tools, ie. the weapon editor, to install them in the first place and to keep up with the ever evolving nature of the sim and the necessary adjustments to your existing mods. Its not that difficult but it can get a bit tedious, for sure. There are so many different mods and so many people have different installs, IMHO there is not an easy "just drop this file in your game and go" way to do it and not lose your own personal version if the sim. This goes for the weapon.ini, object.ini, target.ini, types.ini, and so forth. This is exactly the situation you ran into with the weapon.data and the changes made for the EP. Someone just gave you what worked at the time, the sim changed, and you're back stuck where you were before. We have discussed the pros and cons of making a Mega Pack type package before but with things in flux, as the sim is still being improved by Thirdwire, its not likely to happen in the near future. So the way I see for now you have a few options. 1. Sticking with the stock Thirdwire game. 2. Using 3rd party mods as you can and accepting the compatibility issues. 3. Learning to updated your 3rd party mods to fix those compatibility issues. 4. Finding someone to give you the modded files you need to get what you want. The problem with that is there is no guarantee that won't mess up something else in your install that works now. IMHO (if you want to use 3rd party mods), the only really viable option for your continued enjoyment of the sim is #3.

 

 

BTW...I'm pushing 53 and they didn't have computers when I was a young'un either.

Thanks guys for the reply,I told you it was a lot to ask and didn't really expect any major changes to the sim just to accomadate those few of us who are not into modding,so I guess I'll go with whats behind door number two,using third party addons and accepting the compatability issues.

I think that sooner or later unless somthing drastic technology wise ,happens I'll give up flight sims and go back to reading books about my interests ,at least books don't go obsolete the day you buy them.(at least not yet)

[hurricane3 2]

Thanks guys for the reply,I told you it was a lot to ask and didn't really expect any major changes to the sim just to accomadate those few of us who are not into modding,so I guess I'll go with whats behind door number two,using third party addons and accepting the compatability issues.

I think that sooner or later unless somthing drastic technology wise ,happens I'll give up flight sims and go back to reading books about my interests ,at least books don't go obsolete the day you buy them.(at least not yet)

 

Just got to thinking , maybe I should explane where I'am coming from, and why I'am not a big modding fan.

I've had computer's for about 12 years (ya I even had an old Commador 64)and they had puter's back then in the stone ages.

I've had probley at least 8 or more complete computor crashes probley more (you lose count with old age.and ya I know Commador isn't spelled right)

Anyway I have eight flight sims and a whole bunch of various war stratagy and a few first person shooter and even two train sims.After the crashes(all for various reasons to numerious to mention) I've had to reinstall every thing

Since I save everything to disk now it makes it a little easier but since I've put so much into just the flight sims alone, hundereds of planes missions and scenery it would take me working at least five hours every evening for three to four months to get everything back.

Some sims I had to reinstall after some scenery or effects would screwup the whole sim.

I never wanted to be a computer programer ,just fly,because airplanes have been my life for as long as I remember(I took lessons in high school but the money ran out before I got my licence) and have flown with friends who flew.

So the thing is flight sims (just my opion) have lost sight of their real purpose which is to enable those of us with out the funds(though flight simming ain't cheap as you know) to experiance something of the thrill and history of flight.

I know at lot of people enjoy modding for the sake of modding but I've done it to make the experiance more real.

OK sorry to vent but it's just I'am tired of haveing months or even years of work ruined because I tried some new thing that screwed up the puter or sim.

I guess I'am just tied of what I thought would be enjoyable turn into a nightmare (like the time I put the new Hanriot in and all the assignments said unassigned and I took a chance and did a system restore and it worked ,that time,but that doesn't always work) Now with Vista and dual core prosser's when my computer dies,and I know it will ,I have not a clue as to what to get or what programes will work with what, so this is why I'am considering quiting flight sims and maybe even computer's

You guys are the best most friendly and go above and beyond to help,youve worked very hard to make these wonderful sims but I don't have the computer smarts or time to do all the things you have to do to make the sims as realistic as possible.

Oh I might decide to hang in there so you might hear from me again on some dumbohead question,but for now I'am giving it a rest.

Thanks for letting me get some things of my chest and the last thing I want is ti offend anyone.

So thanks again I got some sleep to catch up on,three more years and I can retire,yea.

[+peter01 2]

Its good you have the persistence, and hopefully you'll give FE and other games a try in the future. Its a new world, one I couldn't even imagine 15 years ago.

 

But theres two things. the first is software development (and also I guess mods done by people), can be very very complex...it takes time and/or money to get right, and in any case will never be perfect (ever). I work in a bank, its a guarantee when theres a change to a system (even critical systems eg Automatic Tellers, cheque processing, internet banking), its a certainty theres will be a problem. No two ways about it - sometimes a disaster. But they get fixed, or workarounds are established.

 

So, my advice with computer games is simple, one I followed for many years. If you are happy with a release, don't install any new mods, or patches, or upgrades, until you make a copy. Then try out the upgrade etc. Sometimes its a matter of actually running 2 or more different versions, eg, FE EP and FE pre-EP. This is because although a new release/patch etc may improve some aspects, others you may not like. Its a matter of picking your preference.

 

I had 4 versions of Il2 running at one time, simply because although each new release added new planes which was great,it would either reduce my frame rates or alternatively the AI would get worse.

 

Its how it is....so, backup before installing changes, and if possible keep a copy on your PC, and one on a external HD - these are cheap now, and are essential.

 

If you don't have the disk space on a PC or an external HD, basically you are living dangerously because time and money are the drivers in software development..

Edited April 2, 2008 by peter01

[Red Von Hammer 0]

Hi Hurricane!

 

I understand your sufferings.

 

This might sound stupid, but, there is a mod... To make.. Mods work.. :P

 

I personally have not used it for FE. But it`s apparently called "Jelly`s"

 

With it, apparently, you can toss Mods into a separate folder, without "TRALALA"`ing up the game itself. And actually choose what/which mod(s) you wish to play.

 

I have used something similar myself, for Silent Hunter series, and it did not take me long time to master.

 

I think there are people here that might help you with that, as I have not yet tried something like this for FE.

I hope there is a kind soul here which can help get u set up.

 

 

Have a good evening ladies and gents!

 

S!

 

RvH

[hurricane3 2]

I guess when I first started flight sims,wih the old comador64 then went to a Dell with CFS1 I had fun, now it's mostly frustration and a technology thats moving way too fast.

The games you played yesterday won't work on todays systems (some will but you have to do a lot of tweaking).

When you pay the kind of money I've put in computer's, flight sims,and other programs plus the control set up( I have all CH controllers) ,that it should last a lifetime, but your lucky to get five years from a system before it's so outdated that it's no good to anyone anymore.

Maybe I"am too old fashioned ,but to me the world of flight simming has all the fun taken out of it.

[+NeverEnough 78]

Hey Hurricane3, I'm only six years younger than you and I think maybe the passage of time has left you with only the fond memories of the early flight sims! I clearly remember having to screw around with DOS to try to sort out the pretty much guaranteed hardware incompatabilities, driver problems or program bugs. Do you remember having to move cards to different ISA slots to resolve the DMA and IRQ conflicts? Just as in any bygone relationship, the mind tends to remember most clearly the good times, and not the bad!

 

Trust me, we never had it so good as we have it now! Enjoy all the good works available to us here in the community.

 

P.S.

If you encounter something which might appear difficult, just ask for help. There is a ready and competent source of assistance available here, a really great bunch of fellow enthusiasts.

[FastCargo 412]

I kind of was thinking the same thing. I remember all the gyrations you had to do with upper memory management to get Falcon 3.0 plus it's spinoffs (Mig-29 and F-18) to work at maximum resolution. Or all the different tweaks you did to get MSFS to run at max speed with the various tradeoffs.

 

Or, jeez, with Win98, actually rebooting the computer each time I wanted to run a DOS based sim with max performance...

 

It really hasn't gotten any harder.

 

What's happened however, is that is has become easier to mod. The early sims were impossible to mod, so it was easy to play because there was no way to enhance the sim other than through official expansions. In other words, you didn't have to worry about choices, because there were no choices.

 

Not anymore.

 

There are now an infinite amount of choices...I think there is where your problem lies. It is now possible to customize your sim experience in almost an infinite amount of detail. Which can be overwelming if you want everything.

 

So you have a choice to make. You can be happy with what you have and leave it at that. You can choose to mod and take your chances (and get a backup external hard drive). Or you can decide that maybe it's time to do something else.

 

Flightsims haven't lost their way...it is your choice if you want to mod or not. If anything, flight sims have become more like the promise of flight itself...possibilities that streach to the horizon.

 

Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

FastCargo

[+Tailspin 3]

Good points. I had really forgotten about how difficult it was sometimes to even get a flightsim to run on your machine at all.

[MigBuster 2,884]

I guess when I first started flight sims,wih the old comador64 then went to a Dell with CFS1 I had fun, now it's mostly frustration and a technology thats moving way too fast.

The games you played yesterday won't work on todays systems (some will but you have to do a lot of tweaking).

When you pay the kind of money I've put in computer's, flight sims,and other programs plus the control set up( I have all CH controllers) ,that it should last a lifetime, but your lucky to get five years from a system before it's so outdated that it's no good to anyone anymore.

Maybe I"am too old fashioned ,but to me the world of flight simming has all the fun taken out of it.

 

 

Yes and today we have graphics that look a million times better than back then and an operating system thats 97% stable if looked after - something we didnt have 10 years ago even.

 

I cant ever imagine a game that would be as moddable as these sims back even then - Installing a program properly on Win95 was touch and go and often led to building the whole flippin PC.

 

Also most games - yes they were playable out of the box - but any bugs in them / or the plane was the wrong colour etc (or wrong amount of rivets :) ) you were as good as stuck with it in most cases.

 

There are some bugs we are still stuck with - but most of it can be changed relatively at least - and you will never please everyone anyway

[hurricane3 2]

Yes and today we have graphics that look a million times better than back then and an operating system thats 97% stable if looked after - something we didnt have 10 years ago even.

 

I cant ever imagine a game that would be as moddable as these sims back even then - Installing a program properly on Win95 was touch and go and often led to building the whole flippin PC.

 

Also most games - yes they were playable out of the box - but any bugs in them / or the plane was the wrong colour etc (or wrong amount of rivets :) ) you were as good as stuck with it in most cases.

 

There are some bugs we are still stuck with - but most of it can be changed relatively at least - and you will never please everyone anyway

 

You guys are absolutly right,I just guess the older I get the less complicated I want life to be.

And in todays world there are almost too many choice's and tecnology is moving at the speed of heat,and this is one thing I don't like .You buy a computer ,find the thing won't run a lot of sims because you have to disable one core of a two core system,or your vidio card turns the sim into an abstract painting and the computer is obsolete the moment you take it out of the store. Then to get the full flight expearance you have to learn about things like weapons paks and editors and ini files and all this good stuff.

Like you guys said it all comes down to what your willing to settle for and how much work you want to put in to the sim.

Speaking for myself I'am tired of adding this and trying to get something else to work right,all I want to do is fly as realisticly as I can with out working for weeks on a sim.

I'am not blameing anyone here it just my opinion and a matter of choice.

Guys like you have given us things not dreamed of just a few years ago, I guess I wish things could be simpler ,but thats the price of progress.Maybe I'am just too old .

[JediMaster 451]

Actually, one of my first flight sims was VERY moddable. I am speaking of the classic SWOTL!

You needed a hex editor to do it, of course, but once you DL'd one of those from a BBS (for free) you had all you needed. Granted adding more planes or altering plane shapes or whatever was more difficult, but I remember doing some great stuff.

It was extremely easy to turn an Me-262 into the A1U4 (I think) model with the massive 57mm cannon with only 15 rounds or whatever. Ballistics changes were just a matter of changing the values. I also found where in-game text was and altered the wing/external fuel switching lines to make it say "wing on fire", "engine on fire", etc so when my friend played it he totally freaked out.

We had people mailing out 3.5" disks to others to pass the mods around as 14.4/28.8 modems just weren't up to the task of DLing them!

[GreyCap 0]

The Expasion Pack made some changes in the graphic engine and those changes really killed my framerate.

 

Alligator you sure you can't get acceptable framerates with the EP? There's so many ways to improve performance. Tweaks in the nvidia control panel, like turning Antialiasing off, helps alot. Also simply lowering the resolution to 1024x768, and in set game settings to medium or low. Defrag your comp, turn off all background applications and you should be good to go!

(ok if you tried all those things already, pretend like I din't say anything )

[Gr.Viper 131]

Rule of thumb in latest TW engine version - turn shadows off first.

With the latest patch you can switch shadow settings to medium which will render shadows for planes close to camera and ignore everyone else.

 

I hope poopy releases his zeppelin before i get old (just kidding)

If you keep calling him "poopy" he might dump it