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ramimz

First pics of India's IL-76 In Israel.

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For a transport. :grin:

 

converted transports for AEW work certainly make a much more comfortable plane for that than that carrier based tube!!

 

:wink:

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converted transports for AEW work certainly make a much more comfortable plane for that than that carrier based tube!!

 

:wink:

 

Hey Typhoid,

 

Flew with a guy 2 months ago all month who used to fly those things (E-2). Said it had some strange handling characteristics, esp single engine.

 

FastCargo

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Hey Typhoid,

 

Flew with a guy 2 months ago all month who used to fly those things (E-2). Said it had some strange handling characteristics, esp single engine.

 

FastCargo

 

 

"some strange handling characteristics"

 

HA! That's putting it mildly!! The really short fuselauge compared to the wingspan gives it some real fun rudder characteristics in certain circumstances. Coming over the ramp it catches the "burble" which makes the final real "colorful" at times.

 

 

"esp single engine"

 

fortuneatly it does fly pretty well on single engine - else I'd not now be here!!

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The first picture of the India's IL-76 PHALCON in Israel.

 

IL-76 Reg. as KW-3551

 

Look like like india get most attention to modernize radar patrol aircraft, first tey buy OUR IL-38SD with 30 ground targets autotracking on 400 KM range, then this plane, GOOD solution!

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The E-2 has more tail fins than a classic car convention for a reason. :wink:

 

we have always maintained that we could handle more tail.......

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I don't know...the 8 blades per engine plus the 4 rudders...makes an excellent cheese grater.... :biggrin: .

 

As far as single engine goes, I think what he was specific about was if you were on one particular engine (the left?), that the high P-factor (I think that's correct) meant that if you had to do a go-around, you actually had to step on RIGHT rudder...which is totally counter intuitive to multi-engine operations.

 

I could be wrong...it was 4 AM and we were talking about anything just trying to stay awake...

 

FastCargo

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I don't know...the 8 blades per engine plus the 4 rudders...makes an excellent cheese grater.... :biggrin: .

 

As far as single engine goes, I think what he was specific about was if you were on one particular engine (the left?), that the high P-factor (I think that's correct) meant that if you had to do a go-around, you actually had to step on RIGHT rudder...which is totally counter intuitive to multi-engine operations.

 

I could be wrong...it was 4 AM and we were talking about anything just trying to stay awake...

 

FastCargo

 

I know from my own multi-engine qualification that the critical engine can vary from the aerodynamic one to the one that is driving critical systems. since I was only co-pilot qualed up front in the E-2, I didn't do any single-engine flying in that aircraft.

 

hmmm. Left engine out - YES, you would stomp on the right rudder and bank slightly right to maintain directional correctional if I recall correctly. The good engine is the leg you are standing on in an engine out. Right? (I know you guys with dual centerline blowers don't have to worry about that!)

 

I did have a couple of interesting times coming back single engine, including one nail-biter in the middle of the night over some very, very cold Sea of Japan water a very, very long way (at least it seemed that way at the time.....!)

 

two of the squadrons I was in had a plane loose two (the advanced math majors may deduce that those were some REAL interesting events!!) one of which was a trap aboard!

 

:blink:

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hmmm. Left engine out - YES, you would stomp on the right rudder and bank slightly right to maintain directional correctional if I recall correctly. The good engine is the leg you are standing on in an engine out. Right? (I know you guys with dual centerline blowers don't have to worry about that!)

 

Actually, the situation I meant was if the RIGHT engine was out. You're right, normally (as normal as single engine ops get) you 'step on the good engine'...real important for non-centerline thrust A/C as you know.

 

What he was telling me was totally opposite....using right rudder with a dead right engine. It had something to do with the torque of a full thrust left engine (prop rotating right, causing the engine-and thereby the aircraft, to try to bank left) overcoming the thrust vector (which would normally cause the aircraft to yaw right). It wasn't a problem if the left engine was out, because both props rotated the same way (not contra rotating)...so the torque would add to the thrust vector, therefore 'stepping on the good engine' works like you think it would.

 

The non-natural input would only be necessary at full power on the left engine from what I understand. So single engine, while coming down the wire, you could be using left rudder as you think you should, but then would have to put in RIGHT rudder if you had to do a wave off.... Freaky man!

 

FastCargo

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Actually, the situation I meant was if the RIGHT engine was out. You're right, normally (as normal as single engine ops get) you 'step on the good engine'...real important for non-centerline thrust A/C as you know.

 

What he was telling me was totally opposite....using right rudder with a dead right engine. It had something to do with the torque of a full thrust left engine (prop rotating right, causing the engine-and thereby the aircraft, to try to bank left) overcoming the thrust vector (which would normally cause the aircraft to yaw right). It wasn't a problem if the left engine was out, because both props rotated the same way (not contra rotating)...so the torque would add to the thrust vector, therefore 'stepping on the good engine' works like you think it would.

 

The non-natural input would only be necessary at full power on the left engine from what I understand. So single engine, while coming down the wire, you could be using left rudder as you think you should, but then would have to put in RIGHT rudder if you had to do a wave off.... Freaky man!

 

FastCargo

 

 

ahh. That may be so. I recall something to that effect. I know that directional control was such that a carrier recovery when single engine was a last ditch emergency measure to be attempted only if there were no divert fields in range. I came back single engine twice but to ashore diverts. And me obviously riding along in the back working radars, nav and comm, not trying to fly the beast.

 

We did have a single engine recovery at sea one day in the North Pacific with no alternates. On the approach the pilots later related that they were having trouble controlling the aircraft and maintaining the approach angle - the remaining engine was struggling and they were close to full power to make the deck. They were already sweating whether they had enough margin to either wave off or bolter and thought maybe that engine wasn't doing as well as it was supposed to. They were right. At touchdown and (luckily) the trap the shock finished that engine off, all the turbine blades $h!t out the back, the aircraft came to a stop with BOTH engines stopped and silent, and for about 5 seconds everything was dead silence as all watching and riding comprehended that we had just survived a NO ENGINE landing on a carrier deck (I was watching on the PLAT from the Ready Room). Then All H$$# broke loose.......!!

 

In all of that fun, I don't recall what he said about directional control.......

Edited by Typhoid

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And this is from yesterday.

 

Dammmmnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!! :ok::good:

Can't wait to see it with IAF roundels ,finflash & "Bharatiya Vayu Sena" painted on the fuselage.

Edited by ghostrider883

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Actually, the situation I meant was if the RIGHT engine was out. You're right, normally (as normal as single engine ops get) you 'step on the good engine'...real important for non-centerline thrust A/C as you know.

 

What he was telling me was totally opposite....using right rudder with a dead right engine. It had something to do with the torque of a full thrust left engine (prop rotating right, causing the engine-and thereby the aircraft, to try to bank left) overcoming the thrust vector (which would normally cause the aircraft to yaw right). It wasn't a problem if the left engine was out, because both props rotated the same way (not contra rotating)...so the torque would add to the thrust vector, therefore 'stepping on the good engine' works like you think it would.

 

The non-natural input would only be necessary at full power on the left engine from what I understand. So single engine, while coming down the wire, you could be using left rudder as you think you should, but then would have to put in RIGHT rudder if you had to do a wave off.... Freaky man!

 

FastCargo

 

A very wise instructor told me once that you could think the various engine-out thing to death. Look at the far end of the runway or at a point off in the distance off the nose and do what you have to do with the rudders to keep the nose on that point. You automatically overcome the engine out, what rudder to use, how much thrust can I use, etc., etc. If rudder alone will not keep your nose on the point then use a little bank. Rule number one in an emergency, FLY THE JET! Keep the pointy end pointed where you want to go and use the controls as necessary to make it do so. I know of, at least, two aero majors that ended up in smoking holes, because they augered in thinking out the deal and not remembering rule number one.

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