Soldier Dies For Country Not Yet His Own

[+Dave 2,322]

http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/archive/20...02/1178526.aspx

 

Great article.

 

S!

[Silverbolt 104]

sadly,but it happens.....

some years ago was broadcasted here in one news program a history of latinos in US Forces in Iraq.....

i don't know now, but probably some of them should be dead.

 

but as he said "it was my decision" he wasnt forced to join in Army.

some peoples of countries that didn't aproved war are fighting in to it right now , in US conventional Forces or in Private mercenaries corporations.

 

i think it's a war with a lot of intrests, like money ,get fun with others suffering or international speculation....

 

btw can somewone answer me about this question?

"it's possible to a stanger(non-american) get a "oficial post" insede of US Forces?

and in case of it be "naturalizated" american?

[Outlaw7 0]

I think that any man or woman that is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice by joining our armed forces should be granted full citizenship upon assignment to their first duty station. America has always had people from all over the world in its military. I think its time we give them what they have earned by serving without all of the bureaucracy

[Silverbolt 104]

I think that any man or woman that is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice by joining our armed forces should be granted full citizenship upon assignment to their first duty station. America has always had people from all over the world in its military. I think its time we give them what they have earned by serving without all of the bureaucracy

 

at least there your soldiers are recognized.....

[+Dave 2,322]

I think that any man or woman that is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice by joining our armed forces should be granted full citizenship upon assignment to their first duty station. America has always had people from all over the world in its military. I think its time we give them what they have earned by serving without all of the bureaucracy

HERE HERE!!!!

[Longestpants 1]

<S>

 

He's a real American.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Great respect for him.

 

BTW, is there in the US something like the French (and Spanish too) Foreign Legion? A corps for foreigners where you get French if wounded/killed or after Duty? Actually, even french can enlist: foreign legion ask no question and do not check real names/nationality as to allow people to start new lifes.

[+Dave 2,322]

Great respect for him.

 

BTW, is there in the US something like the French (and Spanish too) Foreign Legion? A corps for foreigners where you get French if wounded/killed or after Duty? Actually, even french can enlist: foreign legion ask no question and do not check real names/nationality as to allow people to start new lifes.

 

No we do not have anything like that.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Ok then.

But what's the deal with these stories we are keeping told in Europe: migrants joining the army in order to get the nationality (the whole thing showed in the anti-war usual propaganda you might figure alone, blahblahblah foreign mercenaries... blahblahblah exploiting poor people)?

[+Dave 2,322]

Ok then.

But what's the deal with these stories we are keeping told in Europe: migrants joining the army in order to get the nationality (the whole thing showed in the anti-war usual propaganda you might figure alone, blahblahblah foreign mercenaries... blahblahblah exploiting poor people)?

 

I have no clue what you are talking about. It does help expedite the citizenship process if you join the US Military but its been like that for years and years and years.

[Nesher 628]

the article gave me chills..

sad to hear or read about a fine man dying while serving his country

but even sader to hear about one that fights for country not his own!

 

i agree with Outlaw, they should be granted citizenship as soon as they join the armed forces!

they deserve it

 

<S>

[+JonathanRL 974]

It is good to read that while the goverment has not adopted him as their citizen, the people has.

 

My greatest respect to him.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

I have no clue what you are talking about. It does help expedite the citizenship process if you join the US Military but its been like that for years and years and years.

Ok, so it will speed up the process.

The joining of strangers in the US is more often showed as a new bargain decided by a defeated US in european (all anti-war) papers: nationality in exchange of duty.

Thanks a lot for having clarified it to me.

[ONETINSOLDIER 2]

Ive seen articles like this many times, and for the most part these men have chosen to join our armed forces just for the fact that they value our ideals as we do. America doesnt activly recruit anyone from other nations, it is their own decision, and it is sad that they have died brfore they got the chance to enjoy freedom to the fullest.

Lately Ive taken a lot of crap in various chatrooms for being an american, and I hate to use any mans death as validation of my nationality or my country, but to all those who may talk crap about us, this man was willing to die for us,

IN YOUR FACE,,BEOTCH!!!!

[sparkomatic 7]

Eh...have to disagree with this line of reasoning...no one, seriously no one joins the military "willing to die for his country"...simply because that would be suicidal and they tend to kick you out for that...you are in far more danger driving to work (statistically speaking) than being in the military right now...have you forgotten the invulnerability of youth? No one thinks it is going to happen to them.

 

While the sacrifices are great indeed, they are well advertised as being sacrifices.

 

Citizenship is a matter which people are quite willing to die for (or take for granted completely, but that is Nature's whim) so why should he be any different than those that make across the border every day? Think that is not risky? Of course it is.

 

Blanket anything does not work...period...just joining the military should not grant citizenship either. No, I am not going all "Starship Troopers" here and I am intimately familiar with how expensive, time consuming, and difficult the naturalization process is as well (On more than one level, but that is a different story).

 

Yes, this man was sacrificed on the alter of freedom, and yes we should honor his memory. But he can join the ranks in Valhalla with all of our fallen comrades-in-arms.

 

All of our dead are deserving of remembrance...so why make this one a hero? This article is for political gain in a time when America has been grappling with the issue of so many illegal immigrants...no doubt someone will try to make a case of it during one of the endless political campaign speeches this year (not saying he was an illegal immigrant).

 

Ever here of this fellow: "Randy Matheny" ? Is it entirely necessary to place the names of not only the dead, but those tens of thousands wounded as well? What about their sacrifices? Where is their topic of debate and "here, here" 's?

 

And why do we still have POW/MIA on everything? I personally fully support the new banner of KIA/WIA...that is our generation, those our our brothers and sisters.

 

And while broaching that topic...I recently attended an NCO Academy graduation...what an intriguing spectacle...immediately after the POW/MIA remembrance they recited the newfangled Airman's Creed..."I will leave no one behind"...bit late for that, eh? Poor production timing...you just honored those left behind and then affirm that no one gets left behind...not a fan of that Airman's Creed as it must be a product of Moseley...every line nearly starts with "I"...werent we taught that is bad manners and something regards the spelling of "team"...why doesnt it start every line with "We"...rather like a document I am sworn to defend, against all enemies Foreign and Domestic (that last bit is my favorite..."and Domestic"). "We the People..."

 

I rather like the idea of an American Foreign Legion...but then I am also in favor of the reviving the Works Progress Administration as well...no job...hold on...we have roads to be paved and trash to be collected and it is time to instill some pride into American again; no, the pride of a job well done, not inherited.

 

Cheers

[ONETINSOLDIER 2]

sure wish I could express my thoughts on your opinion, but youd just delete it,

[sparkomatic 7]

- what, that all of our dead should be recognized? That is not an opinion, gwar...

[ONETINSOLDIER 2]

I guess I took it wrong,sounded like you thought it wasnt worth dieing for, no offense intended.

[JediMaster 451]

No, he's just lamenting that this particular death is getting more attention when in reality all should receive equal amounts. Of course there are unique circumstances of those going above and beyond that die in the process, but that's what the citation process is about. If you're unlucky enough to die in a manner that doesn't seem "heroic", the sacrifice is no less great. It's just perhaps all the more lamentable.

[sparkomatic 7]

JediMaster is exactly right

[GwynO 16]

Eh...have to disagree with this line of reasoning...no one, seriously no one joins the military "willing to die for his country"...simply because that would be suicidal and they tend to kick you out for that...you are in far more danger driving to work (statistically speaking) than being in the military right now...have you forgotten the invulnerability of youth? No one thinks it is going to happen to them.

 

While the sacrifices are great indeed, they are well advertised as being sacrifices.

 

Citizenship is a matter which people are quite willing to die for (or take for granted completely, but that is Nature's whim) so why should he be any different than those that make across the border every day? Think that is not risky? Of course it is.

 

Blanket anything does not work...period...just joining the military should not grant citizenship either. No, I am not going all "Starship Troopers" here and I am intimately familiar with how expensive, time consuming, and difficult the naturalization process is as well (On more than one level, but that is a different story).

 

Yes, this man was sacrificed on the alter of freedom, and yes we should honor his memory. But he can join the ranks in Valhalla with all of our fallen comrades-in-arms.

 

All of our dead are deserving of remembrance...so why make this one a hero? This article is for political gain in a time when America has been grappling with the issue of so many illegal immigrants...no doubt someone will try to make a case of it during one of the endless political campaign speeches this year (not saying he was an illegal immigrant).

 

Ever here of this fellow: "Randy Matheny" ? Is it entirely necessary to place the names of not only the dead, but those tens of thousands wounded as well? What about their sacrifices? Where is their topic of debate and "here, here" 's?

 

And why do we still have POW/MIA on everything? I personally fully support the new banner of KIA/WIA...that is our generation, those our our brothers and sisters.

 

And while broaching that topic...I recently attended an NCO Academy graduation...what an intriguing spectacle...immediately after the POW/MIA remembrance they recited the newfangled Airman's Creed..."I will leave no one behind"...bit late for that, eh? Poor production timing...you just honored those left behind and then affirm that no one gets left behind...not a fan of that Airman's Creed as it must be a product of Moseley...every line nearly starts with "I"...werent we taught that is bad manners and something regards the spelling of "team"...why doesnt it start every line with "We"...rather like a document I am sworn to defend, against all enemies Foreign and Domestic (that last bit is my favorite..."and Domestic"). "We the People..."

 

I rather like the idea of an American Foreign Legion...but then I am also in favor of the reviving the Works Progress Administration as well...no job...hold on...we have roads to be paved and trash to be collected and it is time to instill some pride into American again; no, the pride of a job well done, not inherited.

 

Cheers

 

I completely agree with your points Sparkomatic. What you say about roads need paving and garbage collected is exactly how I feel about the UK right now, I have been in more or less constant employment of some kind since leaving school, all through college and University I held down a variety of jobs including some real horrible ones, salting rawhide for one (even though am a veggie), cleaning toilets for another, throwing people out of pubs and trodding on sick after serving goths too drunk to stand beer because "thats what pays our wages" and stuck in security for 4 years. I have had enough up to my eyes of seeing the countless thousands or even millions of people in the UK who go cap in hand to the government and get given money for filling in paper. If they can complete the form then they have enough sense to realise that we have huge amounts of work in this country hence why foreign labour moves here. All too often we get the right wing moaning that "they take our jobs" or "they undercut us", well its illegal to pay under the minimum wage to UK nationals so "we" simply wont get less than that period no matter how many foreigners offer to work for less, besides the first and far more important issue is why are there jobs going spare in the first place, is it because we are just too lazy to work? I think it has to do with a lack of pride and the corresponding lack of shame, we in the UK have lost any sort of moral virtue as our grandparents had from things like family, community and or religion. Pride in traditional British things is widely equated with racisim or other such nonsense even amongst those educated enough to know that issue is not about white, black or blue but about values, ethics and actions, it is about how much pride you have for yourself as part of the community not just an community. "Respekt" is bandied about as justification for thuggish violence when what this street slang reduces down to is fear and smite.

 

I personally have a great deal of respect for British service men and women even if the politicians get it wrong, a lot of them are pure of intent and honourable soldiers unlike the cowards who struck us in London 3 years yesterday. Both the US and the UK have their problems on many levels, corruption, bone idleness (in some communities in particular) and general confusion over how and even why should citizenship be expressed but on the whole I think the USA have their heads screwed on the right way when it comes to national pride, it is not about which asses you have kicked but about why you even exist as a country, you are a relatively new country born of Enlightenment values and you remember them, our trouble here is that we have been too busy adjusting and responding to the years that we have become lost in conflicting senses, we have four nations ruled diverging on all axis and torn, county to county within country, village and town, town and city in every direction or even street against street with nothing at the top to bring us all back together, who do we look to for when we need a sense of direction, the old couple next door or the crazy guy on tv.

 

We need something on the official level like America, we need a new anthem about "us" not the Royal "we" and some kind of national service would be a great start, if only we could even have a celebration of our living service men and women when they come back. I find it utterly shameful that while every other funeral for British KIA makes headline news we hardly ever see a celebration for the comrades that they died for and who could just as easily died themselves, no flags waving or pressed uniforms when they go to the pub, they have to sneak in civvies instead. If loss and suffering should be the subject of mass media introspect then why cant they justify it, why they wont explain how it is that it means anything to us, are we as a nation, as I suspect, incapable of understanding what values drives them to such sacrifice? If so then we need to ask those questions of ourselves, nevermind why Ahmed plans bombs, we shouldn't need to rationalise that above our own citizens ken and we shouldn't need to be asking ourselves what it is that makes a British soldier lay their life on the line it should be taught to us at school, in the anthem, at football matches or the park, and celebration day parades.

 

As a kid I had a dream to run away and join the USAF. Didn't work out obviously but it's nice to know that people still can enjoy the possibility to serve while working toward citizenship and at the same time it leaves a feeling of incompletion in my own lifetime, however values extend beyond frontiers as do friendships and the world keeps turning. I will hope one day to at least visit the Republic across the pond and marvel at your accomplishments in enshrining those Enlightened values that are dear to so many Europeans, Africans, Australasians and Asians alike.