Viper6 3 Posted February 7, 2009 Hey, I would GLADLY change places with ANYONE that wanted to endure combat. For the FULL use of my hands back and to stop having to take all these pills Who ever wants this can have it! It is NOT all that!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ST0RM 145 Posted February 8, 2009 My point was simply that not everyone does ground combat that is over there. When I cross the fence, it's in a 50 year old airplane without RHAW gear (so I dont know if we are getting a MANPAD or SA-whatever shot at me), nor defenses to counter it. The two times that I know for a fact I was shot at, was because I saw it while refueling two Super Hornets on the first one. Called the breakaway and got them away from us in case we went up in flames. I believe the SH's ended up dropping on the gun position later that night. There are several other stories that I've had happen and a few from others crews who had things get a lot closer. But this isn't the right place for that. I hold the door kickers/shooters across all services in the highest regard, don't get me wrong. Especially those that have been injured or killed. Just don't buy into the BS "combat" or "warrior" titles. It only gives someone a big head and a false sense of importance. Nearly every job has it's time and place to be at the pointy end of the stick. It depends on the mission and situation. The rest of the time... you're just another dude/dudette waiting for the alarm to go off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viper6 3 Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) Some MOS's Idea of 'combat' is just being 'incountry' at the time of conflict some MOS's face the AWFUL HORRORS of ground combat everyday not just maybe now and then. In my experienced opinion a warrior is one that has taken down tango's personally and has had to defend from being taken down. My pops was a AF lifer and for flyboys to get shot down then have to survive or fight on the ground is a different story. For those of you who have never faced a tango on the ground in his own back yard do not know the meaning of combat. Pardon my rant but this warrior thing has gotten to me. Edited February 8, 2009 by Viper6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeremiah Weed 0 Posted February 8, 2009 My point was simply that not everyone does ground combat that is over there. When I cross the fence, it's in a 50 year old airplane without RHAW gear (so I dont know if we are getting a MANPAD or SA-whatever shot at me), nor defenses to counter it. The two times that I know for a fact I was shot at, was because I saw it while refueling two Super Hornets on the first one. Called the breakaway and got them away from us in case we went up in flames. I believe the SH's ended up dropping on the gun position later that night. There are several other stories that I've had happen and a few from others crews who had things get a lot closer. But this isn't the right place for that. I hold the door kickers/shooters across all services in the highest regard, don't get me wrong. Especially those that have been injured or killed. Just don't buy into the BS "combat" or "warrior" titles. It only gives someone a big head and a false sense of importance. Nearly every job has it's time and place to be at the pointy end of the stick. It depends on the mission and situation. The rest of the time... you're just another dude/dudette waiting for the alarm to go off. Fist of all, not being a "warrior" does not make someone's job any less important. It is a term and title steeped in centuries of tradition. As you know tradition is a pretty big thing in the military, people take the traditions of their career field and hold them in high esteem. Titles like "combat arms" and "warrior" are not BS, the title of warrior is EARNED. Are trigger pullers given inflated egos and a sense of importance? Probably, but you know what, that is needed to do that job. You have to have it in your head that you are better than anyone else to do the missions I have done. Yes, pretty much every job has times where the PAX are in a combat fire zone, that doesn't make them warriors, that makes them members of the military. Getting shot at does not make you a warrior, it does not make your job any less important to the war effort, but it doesn't make you the tip of the spear. Traditions need to be kept. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Dave 2,322 Posted February 8, 2009 Yes, pretty much every job has times where the PAX are in a combat fire zone, that doesn't make them warriors, that makes them members of the military. Getting shot at does not make you a warrior, it does not make your job any less important to the war effort, but it doesn't make you the tip of the spear. Well those guys boring holes in the skies to keep our planes fueled to support the ground guys are very much tip of the spear IMHO. The military member manning a laptop in an air conditioned office in the Puzzle Palace, looking for a hacker, not so much. My job now working C2 for C-5's, not so much. When I was in C2 for AWAC's, that was tip of the spear. Worked with a bunch of CCT guys a few times. Nice to know we speak the same langauge as opposed to the Army/Marines where my average controller needed and acronym translater. But thats another story and its pretty funny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeremiah Weed 0 Posted February 8, 2009 Worked with a bunch of CCT guys a few times. Nice to know we speak the same langauge as opposed to the Army/Marines where my average controller needed and acronym translater. But thats another story and its pretty funny. Why do you think in Afghanistan we were with the Rangers all the time, you tell those dudes "Hey the 4 of you go up that hill, kill the 50 heavily armed and entrenched hajis with just your side arm" and they will, no questions asked. Never ask them to call in A-10s though. CCT was a challenging and rewarding job, but in the end it put too much stress on my family, body, and mind, at the end of the day I'd rather be chillin' fighting some cyber threat than sitting on a ridge freezing my ass off waiting for extration in a s**thook where I will feel helpless in flight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ST0RM 145 Posted February 8, 2009 Fist of all, not being a "warrior" does not make someone's job any less important. It is a term and title steeped in centuries of tradition. As you know tradition is a pretty big thing in the military, people take the traditions of their career field and hold them in high esteem. Titles like "combat arms" and "warrior" are not BS, the title of warrior is EARNED. Are trigger pullers given inflated egos and a sense of importance? Probably, but you know what, that is needed to do that job. You have to have it in your head that you are better than anyone else to do the missions I have done. Yes, pretty much every job has times where the PAX are in a combat fire zone, that doesn't make them warriors, that makes them members of the military. Getting shot at does not make you a warrior, it does not make your job any less important to the war effort, but it doesn't make you the tip of the spear. Traditions need to be kept. I guess my reply came off wrong. I meant that calling one a warrior, doesn't make you one (I sound like Yoda). The AFN commercial with the airman reciting the Arman's creed is more what I was referring to. I know my place in the pecking order, and I'm fine with it. I'm not a shooter, but sure as hell have seen combat. More people need to understand their place and not be pumped full of BS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeremiah Weed 0 Posted February 8, 2009 I guess my reply came off wrong. I meant that calling one a warrior, doesn't make you one (I sound like Yoda).The AFN commercial with the airman reciting the Arman's creed is more what I was referring to. I know my place in the pecking order, and I'm fine with it. I'm not a shooter, but sure as hell have seen combat. More people need to understand their place and not be pumped full of BS. I understand what you are saying, and I am not one of those morons on the other side of the fence that think if you aren't a shooter you are insignificant, those people are as bad as the Cyber Command coneheads thinking they are warriors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Dave 2,322 Posted February 8, 2009 I understand what you are saying, and I am not one of those morons on the other side of the fence that think if you aren't a shooter you are insignificant, those people are as bad as the Cyber Command coneheads thinking they are warriors. No one ever answered my question, if one of those cyber guys beats a Taliban to death with his laptop, is he a warrior? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
commander 0 Posted February 8, 2009 Should we get a petition passed around, i bet that there are many people who don't want to see the SAC shield used for anything but SAC? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeremiah Weed 0 Posted February 8, 2009 No one ever answered my question, if one of those cyber guys beats a Taliban to death with his laptop, is he a warrior? Could a Cyber guy lift a laptop? Oh wait those are the guys that have enough time to go to the gym at home station 3 times a day, so he would finish drinking his creatine shake, pick up 2 laptops throw them at the guy, get a Bronze Star for it, and immediately do to the DMV and get a license plate with a Bronze Star on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
commander 0 Posted February 9, 2009 No one ever answered my question, if one of those cyber guys beats a Taliban to death with his laptop, is he a warrior? And a fine for destroying gov't property. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted February 9, 2009 No one ever answered my question, if one of those cyber guys beats a Taliban to death with his laptop, is he a warrior? That would be in violation of fraud, waste, and abuse of Air Force resources. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charlielima 328 Posted February 9, 2009 How about we have the Cyber Guys beat up the taliban with USDA and IRS computers. Starting with My Forest Service laptop and desktop. If they can get rid of those, They can never be decorated enough for me. :ph34r: CL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ONETINSOLDIER 2 Posted February 9, 2009 I am going to point out that those "cyber warriors" who don't think they are going to the desert are in for a very rude surprise. That arena of warfare (and warfare it very much is even though "blood and guts" being spread over the landscape is not generally what goes on) involves people securing networks and comm links in some very "interesting" places. I'll also point out, without going into any details, that there is a very active war going on right now in that arena with quite a few players. And to some extent, we are getting our @$ handed to us and our clocks cleaned. The end result being that in a shooting conflict - and there are a few right now.... - our cyber opponents will hand the details of how to spread our blood and guts across the landscape to those who will do just that. Its no joke. I presume you are referring to hackers and not about UAV "pilots"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ONETINSOLDIER 2 Posted February 9, 2009 My appologies, I was speaking of myself in how I hate it that the Air Force likes to call me a warrior. I guess I started despising that term when I was at the medical tent in Kirkuk. I was there because I cut my freaken hand on some glass and while I was being treated, medical just received a medivac of a bunch of soldiers who looked like they literally got blasted half-way to hell. Seeing those injuries and what those guys were having to endure really made me feel sick for me to be called a warrior when I haven't even been through their shoes. I guess it's just me that has that issue from that experience. Sorry if I offended anybody with my previous statement. Its mid-summer, 1969, and Im 9 years old at Alameda naval air station infirmary with a broken finger, which, to me at the time was a big deal, until I happened to pass by a room with the door ajar,and I got my first glimpse of "the thousand yard stare". I ran back to my mother and told her that we have to leave. She asks why, and I explained to her that I didnt deserve to be there with just a broken finger when the man in that room has no arms or legs anymore. I will NEVER forget the mans face, he was, empty. I know where you are comin from, in a way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viper6 3 Posted February 9, 2009 Its mid-summer, 1969, and Im 9 years old at Alameda naval air station infirmary with a broken finger, which, to me at the time was a big deal, until I happened to pass by a room with the door ajar,and I got my first glimpse of "the thousand yard stare".I ran back to my mother and told her that we have to leave. She asks why, and I explained to her that I didnt deserve to be there with just a broken finger when the man in that room has no arms or legs anymore. I will NEVER forget the mans face, he was, empty. I know where you are comin from, in a way. And there are MANY of us in various states of that condition some of us that still have our limbs are dealing with the mental side of combat that NEVER goes away and effects all of our families and loved ones some of us can not take it any longer and end our lives some of us seek help and have to take a lot of pills just to cope day to day. I'm willing to trade all of this to anyone who wants it any takers? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
