Sidewinders and clouds

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

A question to pros around here, I know a sidewinder is a heatseeking missile, does a cloud disturb the lock possibility of a sidewinder? Everytime a plane flys into clouds or short under it... my winders can`t lock it. Is it in RL too? What about the later winders.. still the same prob ingame.

[Fubar512]

A question to pros around here, I know a sidewinder is a heatseeking missile, does a cloud disturb the lock possibility of a sidewinder? Everytime a plane flys into clouds or short under it... my winders can`t lock it. Is it in RL too? What about the later winders.. still the same prob ingame.

 

Moisture in the air degrades IR detection.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

that was my idea but I thought it was a prob for the earlier winders?!?!

[+SkippyBing]

In real life it should cause problems as the moisture will attenuate the IR signal, actual results will depend on the seeker head, which IR window it's using, density of the cloud etc. I'm guessing the newer imaging seekers may fare better.

 

Not sure about the game, but as you loose padlock if a cloud gets between you and the target I'm guessing it could be implemented.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

This feauture is implemented, I always fly with a lots of flufy clouds around, looks cooler and has more atmosphere, and it makes a dogfight more interesting. But nice to see this game hase such features.

[Slartibartfast]

The early Aim-9's had a tendency to lose lock unless practically boresighted on the heat source. In Vietnam they would end up locking onto the ground... No Campfires guys... The later versions are a lot better especially G onwards... and in theory should be able to track through clouds as the seeker heads are much better at picking up heat signatures.

 

The 9L was used to great effect in the Falklands and I know from experience that it rains a heck of a lot down there.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

I read storys about B`s that locked onto the und .. and baam.... it was night...

 

Will try it in a rainy weather.. this seems very interesting ... This game always suprise me

[zmatt]

I have heard of them locking on to the sun too.

[Lexx_Luthor]

Hey yough 76. Inrared light is absorbed by water vapour -- the haze in the sky that turns the sky from blue to, well, haze. The hazier the air, the less IR radiation gets to the missile seeker. Ideally, you want a combat environment with minimal water vapour, cold temperature, and thin air.

 

Vietnam was fought at low level, in hot air, with tropical style humidity water vapour levels.

 

However, no matter where on Earth, you find the ideal conditions above say 30,000 feet near the stratosphere. Czech this article out if you have not seen it yet which describes the China/Formosa air war 1958 where the AIM-9B proved brutally lethal and dependably reliable at the high "korea-esque" combat altitudes.

 

China and Taiwan since 1945; Part 1~> http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_145.shtml

 

Word search for Arrival of the Snakes and read on down through the entire Turkey Shoot section to the end. It evaporates the pop culture Myth of Sidewinder "unreliability."

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

I know the story of a MiG-17 hit by a B and escaped with the rocket in the fuelage... Thx for the link will read it.

[Lexx_Luthor]

Oh yea, and clouds are condensed water vapour -- tiny water droplets. IR is blocked by this. So clouds are bad news.

 

Just to clear up any confustion: even on "clear" cloudless days, there is still alot of IR absorbtion at low altitudes on humid days, less on dry days. At high altitudes, this is not an issue, its always dry. although sometimes water/ice clouds do get up near and into the stratosphere which would be a problem. I'm not sure about the IR absorbtion by ice however (cirrus clouds and thunderhead blowoffs). Never thought of that.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

Aren`t the newest seakers someting like inteligent IR cameras?! I saw in a docu the difference between those eraly seaker and later Winders. The resolution improved a lot but there was no word about clouds and IR seaker... but now it`s clear thanks to all for his information

[SayethWhaaaa]

I thought modern day IRMs could be slaved to the radar to pick out an individual target (as opposed to being autonimous) and then go active when a positive signal is achieved?

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

Wasn`t the D or C a semi radar IR missile?!

[DWCAce]

The AIM-9C was the SARH one...

 

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-9.html

[JediMaster]

Some IRMs have IIR seekers which "see" the target in a way not too dissimilar from the IR Mavericks. Spoofing one of them with a flare is VERY hard because flares don't look like planes.

[+Brain32]

Some IRMs have IIR seekers which "see" the target in a way not too dissimilar from the IR Mavericks. Spoofing one of them with a flare is VERY hard because flares don't look like planes.

Yeah most modern IRM's have that kind of seeker. Interestingly enough in game, it seems my flares look like flares while AI's flares look like huge formations of B52's set on fire lol

 

P.S: I know we can't have IIR seekers for IRM missiles in-game but we solve that with generous CM rejection value, too bad I can't explain that to AI planes lol

[Gr.Viper]

Before you go hunting in bad weather remember that early 'winders had a large IR-sensor "eye". Could be smahed to bits by heavy rain and hail before you even launch it.

[macelena]

IIRC, once, a Sa´ar shot down a mig trough a cloud with a Shafrir1 or 2. I´m not sure,

but i think that something like this happened in the falklands war.

 

The fact is that clouds affect IR lock, but not as dramatically as some slight change in speed or

aspect angle if we talk about early, rear only aspect IRMs. I would just care about tracking them

until you get tone.