Joystick Recommendations

[catch 81]

If you use Trackir be careful if you have your thoughts on a Logitech stick because some people using that stick found their trackir stopped working. There were discussions on the trackir forum at Natural Point but i believe the final solution was to disconnect any logitech products in use on your PC.

Of course that may well have changed by now but i haven't heard anything myself.

 

And some people (probably most actually) using a Logitech stick like myself have had no problem whatsoever with trackir or anything else for that matter

[Olham 164]

Hey, Widow

As everyone seems to recommend their joysticks, why not present mine here?

It's a Thrustmaster T.Flight Stick X - I'll show you my set up below.

It works good for me with all the buttons. I think, though, the HOTAS Cougar would be more precise

(plane flying smooth and straighter, especially when shooting!), but I can't seem to get used to my

SAITEK rudder pedals.

Edited March 26, 2009 by Olham

[Rickitycrate 10]

And some people (probably most actually) using a Logitech stick like myself have had no problem whatsoever with trackir or anything else for that matter "Catch"

 

Thanks for that post Catch I had some concern from this thread because I just set up a Logitech Wingman Force 3D and am very happy wirh it and Trackir is on it's way. I thought I was having a wonderful experience before all these gear upgrades, it's Christmas and I'm a kid again.

[catch 81]

Good for you Rickity. Be a kid again ! Trackir will blow you away once you get used to it

[Guest British_eh]

Hey there. The X 52 has a throttle, just like I see in my WW1 crate, and although the buttons are indeed a bit different, I can't spend $2500 on a real set up. So, I did enjoy the FFB, but as a bit of tendonitis flares up now and then, I'm better of without it. While the Joystick is important, I LOVE my Pedals, ( even at the risk of blasphemy that I like them better than my TIR), and so there you go.

 

Cheers,

 

British_eh

[Crockett12 0]

I don't have any experience with any other products because my CH Products Joystick, Throttle and Pedals have lasted long time. I've had the USB versions ever since they came out -- I think about 10 years now or better.

 

My Joystick -- CombatStick 568 USB -- and I love it!

Throttle -- CH Products Pro Throttle USB

Pedals -- CH Products Pro Pedals

 

All have worked as advertised since I've had them without so much as a hiccup. I love the setup and the CH Control Manager is easy to use and to customize any game I've bought so far -- which is a LOT of games -- flight sims -- first person shooters and strategy games. I use the CH Throttle with the first person shooters and strategy games -- makes them a lot easier to play!

 

Go here to see reviews on CH Products.

http://www.chproducts.com/retail/reviews.html

 

I'm thinking about Track IR now. Figure I might live a little longer in OFF. Might make it so I don't have to run like hell every time I see an enemy crate coming at me :-)

 

Crockett12

[MAICO 1]

Hi, My Name is Maico.... I am a Hardware Aholic....

Great set ups I see here. Here is what I use. I have MS FFB2 on the right. I love the force feedback of this stick like no other (Sorry Saitek). On the left I have a Saitek X52. I thinks this is the greatest throttle money can buy. The X52 Joy sits to the left of the throttle and acts only as extra buttons (Great for Lock On, Black Shark ect). TIR 4 and CH pedals complete the setup. I really want to replace my pedals with a set of Saitek. This is my second set of CH pedals and again there is a spike in one of the pots. I have used my X52 since they were introduced to the market (Two years or more) and

I have tried the Saitek Cyborg and it is not a bad stick. I would use it if I had to have a new stick. I also have a CH FighterStick USB. I dont use it. I dont like its huge clunky feel and the fact that its movements are through a gate. It takes a lot of getting used to. Trasitions from X to Y are not so smooth. I am sure it will last a lifetime as long as you dont abuse it or smack it around. But it is not my cup of tea. I have an older CH joystick and would like to put its handle on a FFB2 Base. That would be the ultimate stick IMO.

My recomendations are to scrounge the garage sales or family basements for a MS Force Feedback. If you cant find one use the Saitek Cyborg. Also get a X52 and use it as a trottle. The X52 Throttle puts so many buttons at your reach. If you program "Shift" on one of your MSFFB2 buttons then you double the commands on your X52 throttle. But now I am giving away too many secrets.

 

 

Cheers

[Cameljockey 3]

I like this stick! Sidewinders rock! I'd never before used an FFB stick and was told that it was harder to hit anything but, I beg to differ. The first campaign mission I flew was in a DVII flying for Jasta 10. We were escorting Hannovers on a bombing raid at an enemy aerodrome just across the lines. The raid went off without a hitch but 10 miles from home we got jumped by 5 SPADs from an unknown Esc. I shot down two and Emil got one. Unfortunately we lost Alois in the fray. I don't know if he crashed or landed. I guess we'll find out soon ebough. After the fight Emil and I headed home and 1 1/2 miles from the aerodrome we got jumped by 5 more SPADs from Esc 103. I got 3 of the buggers and Emil got another. Emil took some rounds and had to land in a corn field. He had no choice as he was low when his engine stopped. I was chasing the last SPAD and got a few rounds into him when I saw five specks in front of us. More SPADS! I figured that discretion is the better part of valour so I wheeled around, swooped down to check on Emil who waved as I flew by and I headed for home, which was only a mile away. Emil came walking up a half an hour later smelling of benzine. He was lucky he didn't burn! Wnen I asked if he'd like a cigarette, he heartily declined! "I need a bath and a stiff drink," was all he said.

 

I got five SPAD XIIIs and fired 620 rounds, 205 of which hit their mark. 33% hit/miss. I like this stick!

 

CJ

[Olham 164]

Great report, Cameljockey! Makes me think of one more carrer: as a D VII pilot (never flew it in campaign yet).

 

And I have an old FF stick - but not sure, if it has rudder in the stick.

[Rickitycrate 10]

CJ, I love your account and the picks a re good too

[Cameljockey 3]

Great report, Cameljockey! Makes me think of one more carrer: as a D VII pilot (never flew it in campaign yet).

 

And I have an old FF stick - but not sure, if it has rudder in the stick.

 

Thanks guys, it was a blast. Olham, if it does have the rudder in the stick, and you have pedals, just delete the rudder axis in the "Controls" menu in game. If you look close to the top of this page, Uncleal gave me the skinny on how to do it.

 

CJ

[Olham 164]

It's rather opposite, CJ - I can't seem to fly with real pedals.

I have them, but find them useless. I always get into idiotic sideward stalls in manoeuvers,

that I can do very well with my rudder-included stick.

They just behave totaly different.

[Interlocutor 0]

And some people (probably most actually) using a Logitech stick like myself have had no problem whatsoever with trackir or anything else for that matter "Catch"

 

My stick is also Logitech, a Force 3D Pro. I use TrackIR, and like Rickity I've have had no problems whatever with my Logitech stick, it works great for me.

[Cameljockey 3]

It's rather opposite, CJ - I can't seem to fly with real pedals.

I have them, but find them useless. I always get into idiotic sideward stalls in manoeuvers,

that I can do very well with my rudder-included stick.

They just behave totaly different.

 

My Dad used to tell me, "Mike, can't never accomplished a thing!" The best advice I can give you is, hook up those pedals, go to QC Free Flight, and practice. I like using those "pancake turns" in the DrI that Voss was so fond of and, for me, it was nearly impossible to do with a twist stick because conflict with the yaw and roll being on the same control. When I got pedals, my marksmanship improved a great deal, not to mention the immersion factor. My pedals are like my Trackir. Before I had them I didn't know what I was missing. Now that I have them and have gotten used to them, you'd have to use dynamite to get them from me. Learn to be light on your feet. Too much rudder in the DrI or Camel and you're just a tumbleweed flailing around in the sky.

 

CJ

Edited March 26, 2009 by Cameljockey

[Olham 164]

Right, I'll give 'em a good try in "free flights" - sounds, like they're worth it;

and maybe I pushed them too hard. I couldn't hit a barn.

[Bigfish2 0]

Regarding "rudder pedals or not", I would urge you to give them another go. The magnificent FM for the Camel (and probably others nut have 0 experience of them yet) means you can really exploit massive amounts of rudder deflection, just like the first-hand accounts say. I've had to re-vaseline the pedal bearings its getting such a hammering!

 

I use a Cougar set-up, modded over the years with Hall sensors and replacement u2nxt gimbals. It's cost me a small fortune, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth over the years. Not sure I could/dare recommend it without a prospective buyer being prepared for counselling beforehand. However when recently I thought it had finally broke irretrievably I realised how much I loved it, and I was so relieved when almccoyjr rode to the rescue with advice on how to fix it. It's fixed (see "My Cougar is unwell" in "General Help").

 

But Fortiesboy just replied on that post, to tell us about his ultimate Cougar conversion which has replaced the F16-type stick with a proper spade-handle centre-stick job. Drool.

[Maeran 20]

I've got a Cyborg Evo FFB on order, because although Fortiesboy sorted out my conflict between my (Saitech) and my Sidewinder, I'd already decided that if I have to buy a new stick, it might as will be force feedback. Glad to hear that people like them, since after a decade with my current stick, I was afraid the new one might not last very long at all.

 

I've been putting in a lot of time in FS9 with my new pedals and after roughly 10 hours I reckon I'm getting the hang of basic co-ordination. Crabbing into the wind and going into and out of sideslips are not currently graceful manouveres for me though.

[Siggi 10]

Having mastered the pedals some time ago (still have my old Thrustmaster pedals from over ten years ago) I would not be happy to ever have to go back to a twist-stick solution. The difference in control is chalk and cheese. I'm able to do things with the plane/rudders that were simply impossible with the twist-function, however unlikely that may sound (twist is same as pedals, right?). It's not just about the physical function of the devices, there's something going on with four-limb coordination and how the brain deals with it. :yes:

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I've never been overley keen on the idea of Rudder Pedals (and very pushed for space in my tiny computer room)...but out of interest, which are the best, and how much roughly?

[Todt Von Oben 0]

The best advice I can give you is, hook up those pedals, go to QC Free Flight, and practice. I like using those "pancake turns" in the DrI that Voss was so fond of CJ

 

I agree. If the user wants an authentic flight simulation experience, pedals are a necessity.

 

When I was a CFI and Jump Pilot, I owned a modified Luscombe 8E traildragger, flew planes like the Beech D-18, Citabria, Cessna 120, 140, 180, etc. Generally speaking, when flying a taildragger, the pilot becomes more sensitive to the interplay between stick and rudder than he does when flying a "milk stool". So I often had guys with advanced ratings (airline pilots) buying instructional time in my Luscombe so they could sharpen their abilities to stay "on of the ball."

 

In flight sims, I've owned a Sidewinder for years, and it works fairly well for me; but I know from experience what I'm missing and pedals are definitely on my shopping list.

 

About those "flat spin turns" in the DR1: I found something similar was possible with the Luscombe 8E.

 

For example: while on downwind to land on runway 32L at Buchannan Field, Concord California in the early 1980's, I was instructed by the tower to expedite my approach. I slowed down abeam the numbers on downwind at about 800' AGL, and did a very abreviated base leg in an extreme side slip pretty much over and with my groundtrack following taxiway A adjacent to runway 1R.

 

At about 150' AGL, I took my hand off the throttle momentarily and waived to the tower through my front windshield, with 32L in my approximate seven O:clock. (That's what I meant by an abreviated base leg.)

 

Then, I snapped the plane around with forceful use of the stick and left rudder, dropped it onto 32L in a full flare three-point touchdown with just a blip of momentary extra power at the right moment and (thanks to my custom Cleveland wheels and Cessna juice brakes) brought the aircraft to a full stop in less than a 100 foot groundroll. I took up other students that day, and for some reason on all my approaches the Tower kept instructing me to expedite. I think they were just getting their kicks watching me do it. :yes:

 

I could do something similar on takeoff, too. Because of the large amount of lift generated by the long wing; and comparing that to the relatively short fuselage; I found I could turn extremely tight from climbout to downwind (about 180 degrees) with a very small ground track at about 65 mph with no indication the plane wanted so stall or spin.

 

Anyway, I can't wait to try that in sim with a DR1 and a set of pedals.

 

As Wolfgang Langewische pointed out: it's all about "stick and rudder". To really get the feel of this game, I think pedals are a must.

 

Prost!

 

TvO

[MAICO 1]

Pedals add a new dimension to flying. Some aircraft have a LOT of rudder. The Dr 1 is one of them. With the pedals I am able to meke ridiculous yaw movements to bear my guns on the enemy. Also I can make minor corrections when chasing a guy. Never to mention, it is the way an aircraft was meant to be handled.

[Aussie Pilot 0]

And some people (probably most actually) using a Logitech stick like myself have had no problem whatsoever with trackir or anything else for that matter

 

 

hey Catch, i've only just seen this, along with what was wrote in the trackir thread (i responded there as well).

 

Seeing this and how others have agreed is great, at least i know there in no issue then. I've had troubles with my MSFFB stick lately so have been looking about for sticks just in case. I kept looking at the Logitech force feedback but was concerned by the trackir issue i mentioned. Not an issue anymore though.

Beside that, the soldering iron fixed my MSFFB stick for 7 quid. i just had to reseat the solders of my trigger and its as good as new.

[theseeker 0]

I am still using the good ole MS FFB and I cannot seem to try something new. My old pedal finally died and I didn't realize how much I enjoyed them, not to mention how much more realistic they were.

It looks like I will go with the Saitek as everyone seems to like them. However, after we move I am going crazy and building a Dora cockpit and adding this gear. Absolute total overkill!

I am curious if any of you have switched from the MS to the Saitek FFB joystick and your thoughts. TIA

Edited March 29, 2009 by theseeker

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Another very interesting and informative thread, (as are so many around this place). I too run a Logitech stick; the Extreme 3D Pro. I have used Logitech for well over five years now and am very happy with the product. And my TIR 4 Plus works perfectly with it. I will admit that the average lifespan of a JS for me is about 18 months, but then I tend to be rather hard on them.

 

Now on a related note, I am currently fiddling around with a custom control set-up that when finished will have a center-mount WW1 aircraft-style joy stick with trigger switches, and actual rudder pedals. For the electronic controls I am using the inner workings of a Logitech stick and am coupling said workings to the new stick and pedal bar I am building. It will plug into the computer using the same USB cable and operate with the existing Logitech software. I will keep you all posted as to my progress on this little project. However, it will be a bit down the road as I have promised to first finish the new upper cabinets in the kitchen for my better half.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[catch 81]

Now on a related note, I am currently fiddling around with a custom control set-up that when finished will have a center-mount WW1 aircraft-style joy stick with trigger switches, and actual rudder pedals. For the electronic controls I am using the inner workings of a Logitech stick and am coupling said workings to the new stick and pedal bar I am building. It will plug into the computer using the same USB cable and operate with the existing Logitech software. I will keep you all posted as to my progress on this little project. However, it will be a bit down the road as I have promised to first finish the new upper cabinets in the kitchen for my better half.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

Kitchen cabinets ! Absolutely useless and a bally waste of time old boy ! Now what about the DH2 Parasol ? Now that's something of great import !