DM and Guns Consensus?

[Bullethead 12]

I've had to put OFF aside for a couple of weeks due to real life. Basically, I lost touch when 1.28a and the optional DMs were coming out. So what have you all decided is the most realistic while I've been gone, in terms of gun settings and DM? That's what I'm after, the most realistic. If I die, I die, but I want to kill folks as they did back in the day.

[Winston DoRight 3]

I like patch 1.28a with the hardcore damage model. It seems the best so far if you also select hard for main guns in the workshop. The hard damage model gives your own plane a boost in durability as well. No more 1 hit and out of the fight.

Edited March 26, 2009 by Winston DoRight

[Fortiesboy 3]

There have been several threads discussing the pros and cons of various patches, most notably the alternate Normal and Hardcore software exes.

What some folks refer to as DM differences is basically the readiness or otherwise of the planes, including your own, to succumb to being fired on and crashing.

Polovski has said, in one of the threads, that the patches don't change the damage showing , i. e wings coming off, explosions etc. and I found that to be the case. Changing from one of the exes to the other only caused the planes to succumb earlier or later ( in the hardcore case, if ever-lol )-

 

The main benefit I saw was that you could make a setting where the EA didn't fire on you from hundreds of yards away, but had to wait till closer ( as you would do ) before firing.

 

However, having said that it does seem different folks have had various results depending i suppose on how they fly the sim and their computer(s) settings?

[+Polovski 428]

FB to correct that - the 1.26 patch affected wings coming off etc, if you do not see that with the normal DM after 1.26 then soemthing is screwy there as it's very common to see wings come off, and you will see damage earlier to wings, and slightly earlier elsewhere.

[Olham 164]

Bullet, the HARDCORE model means, that both, enemy and your planes, can take more damage,

are a bit harder to destroy. But only so much, that it appears more realistic to me.

I still can down a SPAD with two very good, or three medium good bursts.

 

For the guns, my setting is on "normal".

But I'm still confused there, what the various gun settings would mean.

 

Perhaps, you could write an explaining list, Winder or Pol?

 

Anyway - I like, what I have now.

[Bullethead 12]

Thanks, guys.

 

I agree, it would help to know what the various gun settings actually do.

[Wels 2]

Hello,

since i am shooting at BE2cs all the time i realized there is almost no damage to be seen - the plane falls sooner or later, but i can empty my whole magazine e.g. into the tail, or the wings, and it will neither show any damage (bullett holes) , nor show parts breaking off before getting out of control and falling - guns normal, dm = hard. Or ... Phase 4 ?

 

You know if someone writes about issues or observations with the sim, it is not clear whether this is an "issue" with the latest patch, a "CFS3 thing" or a complete new feature that has to be implemented in another version, if possible. So Winder's answers are sometimes a bit cryptic when he says there will be no new features before phase 4, and 1.28 is the last patch.

 

Thanks and greetings,

Catfish

[Hauksbee 103]

...it would help to know what the various gun settings actually do.

 

Here's what it does.

 

I posted this last night [after installing the 1.28 patch] at the end of the "Rock-throwing range' thread, but it's such a satisfying moment, I beg your indulgence and repeat myself here. Having grumbled herein about the difficulty of getting a plane to go down even though you've put your weight in bullets into it, I can only repeat last nights comment: "It's as though my .30 Maxims became .50 Brownings."

[Olham 164]

Hauksbee,

that looks terrific - what are your gun settings in workshop?

[Fortiesboy 3]

Polovski - thanks for that. You have said before that since 1.26, that wings come off easily etc, but that hasn't been my experience.

I spent a whole day after 1.28a and the Normal and Hardcore exes testing, and although i could get the EA to succumb easily, they basically just went down, sort of flat, with not much damage apparent apart from some small debris bits flying off early in the attack.

Whether they went down easy , as in normal, or very late as in Hardcore, they were for the most part intact in going down.

And in view of your having raised the possibility of a screwed install, I had made these tests after a complete re install of OFF, having deleted all OFF files before the re install.

 

I only fly in the cockpit. My bullet strength is normal.

 

I only fly with and against the later planes of the war - Albs, Dr1s, Se5a, Camels etc onwards.

So what happens with Eindeckers and DH thingys etc, I don't know. -lol

 

Which is why I made the comment about different computers and settings etc.

 

Now, with some of my "threshold values " at 10- I do get wings off, explosions etc.- BUT not as easily or arcade-like as you might think, being so different from the default values.

 

 

cheers

[Hauksbee 103]

Hauksbee,

that looks terrific - what are your gun settings in workshop?

 

Looks terrific...until I checked the settings. The patch gave me the strongest gun setting with easiest aiming. Before, I had only checked "Pilot doesn't die' and 'tightest pattern' for the guns in QC. However, with my new confidence [and powerful guns] I've been spec'ing Ace level only for my opponents.

[+Polovski 428]

Yeah FB yeah very odd indeed I can't work that out sorry, only thing I can think off is that you miss a lot ;) or that an old 3.0 exe would cause the 50 yard bug where no damage would occur...

 

We tested all on default, and 1.26 wings come off often. I am sure others here can say if they see wings come off since 1.26 with normal.

 

The hard core dm, will make wings /wing tips etc stronger but NOT quite as strong as they used to be.

 

 

As to the gun strength.. the default, normal, is slightly stronger than the old default used to be - that's it.

However you are of course shooting at weakened craft.

Hard is weaker bullets.

Easy is stronger bullets.

 

That's it, as everyone's experience seems to vary it's pointless putting "values" on them, just try, and see what each person prefers and go with it.

[Waldemar Kurtz 1]

Here's what it does.

 

I posted this last night [after installing the 1.28 patch] at the end of the "Rock-throwing range' thread, but it's such a satisfying moment, I beg your indulgence and repeat myself here. Having grumbled herein about the difficulty of getting a plane to go down even though you've put your weight in bullets into it, I can only repeat last nights comment: "It's as though my .30 Maxims became .50 Brownings."

 

 

wahahahahahah! WOW, that's funny! that doesn't look as though it would have been historically possible. I might try that in Quick Combat for fun--but to have that level of damage dished out in a campaign would kinda spoil the sense of immersion for me.

[Guest British_eh]

Reinstalled CFS3 and OFF, then played regular non patched, then updated to patch 1.28a

 

I fly the same craft, DR1, SE5a, Sop Tripe, DVII, Neiuport , and occasionally the Camel. It is always the same times, and enemies, etc. Settings in P3 are 100%, guns Normal, and don't have the Hard or Normal loaded.

 

Now though the AI float down, they don't spiral down, which I thought was a HUGE step and made the sim the BEST. What's up POL?

 

Cheers,

 

British_eh

[Gous 0]

Normal damage model with weak guns is the most accurate from my point of view. I have read some WWI books and I can assure you that with these settings, the aircraft are as fragile as they were in reality.

And wings come off very very often now. I have seen some mid air explosions as well!

Since the 1.26 patch though, I see less bullet holes on my wings and fuselage than before... I dont know maybe it is my idea. But that doesnt affect the game engine anyway.

[Fortiesboy 3]

Yeah FB yeah very odd indeed I can't work that out sorry, only thing I can think off is that you miss a lot ;) or that an old 3.0 exe would cause the 50 yard bug where no damage would occur...

 

We tested all on default, and 1.26 wings come off often. I am sure others here can say if they see wings come off since 1.26 with normal.

 

I might have to plead guilty to the first- but not the second. :) Everything about OFF 3 is new.

New computer, loaded with CFS3 original 2 discs. installed OFF3- That's it.

 

A thought occurs - Nearly all my flying and testing hs been done in QC.

Are your findings from QC or Campaign?

Could that make a diff?

 

Other things which I wonder if they affect gun hits. (I haven't compared results)

1. I aim without having the EA padlocked

2. Aiming with trackir On and with trackir Off ? Any diff?

 

Seriously, re the missing! In the testing I put on the messages ( Never have them on normally) and I did have some shots not register, but many did.

Thinking it might be a case of "missing" I even made the EA Rookie and flew one on one.

 

I'll test some more - I'm on 1.28a on normal- on that should I get the sort of damage you describe in QC?

 

cheers

[Gous 0]

2. Aiming with trackir On and with trackir Off ? Any diff?

Really big difference for me. TrackIR/Freetrack makes a huge difference and adds even more depth and immersion. Of course padlocking (using Tab to target the EA) + the targeting cone turn the game into an arcade shooter.

[+Polovski 428]

British_eh you do not have the patch installed correctly it sounds like. With 1.26+ craft are pretty damn easy to down and more than likely spin, or lose a wing so if you don't see it, then something is screwed as per FB.

old Cfs3.exe, patch not installed, or a bad shot maybe ;)

 

If you have two installs or some kind of custom set then a patch may not work as it may not find the right folder.

 

FB, what does he manager version show as in workshop?

Go to the aircraft folder and find an .xdp file from one of the xxxxxxQC1 folders and send it I'll check it's a 1.26+ one

Also zip up your cfs3.exe and send that too.

 

Tests where in QC and in campaign both the same.

 

try 2 gun craft against a few various, Camel, Alb, Dr1, hannover etc etc

 

Why not try one of the turkey shoot missions in Missions and see if you can hit - aim for nose area/wings try .

[Fortiesboy 3]

Really big difference for me. TrackIR/Freetrack makes a huge difference and adds even more depth and immersion. Of course padlocking (using Tab to target the EA) + the targeting cone turn the game into an arcade shooter.

 

Yes, well I did say "aiming " with trackir on or off. I always fly using trackir. I've probably used it more than most folks here. I had a trackir 1 almost as soon s it came out. Used it ever since. Won't fly a sim without it.

But I have the F9 and F12 keys each mapped to a button. So I can centre ( usually just before firing- I can also switch off trackir momentarily, and this is what I meant. Those that can do this, do you see a difference between aiming accuracy with trackir on or when switched off.

 

Targeting cone ? what's that ? -lol

 

Seriously , I have always had that switched off- you're right, flying with that is arcade.

[Fortiesboy 3]

British_eh you do not have the patch installed correctly it sounds like. With 1.26+ craft are pretty damn easy to down and more than likely spin, or lose a wing so if you don't see it, then something is screwed as per FB.

old Cfs3.exe, patch not installed, or a bad shot maybe ;)

 

If you have two installs or some kind of custom set then a patch may not work as it may not find the right folder.

 

FB, what does he manager version show as in workshop?

Go to the aircraft folder and find an .xdp file from one of the xxxxxxQC1 folders and send it I'll check it's a 1.26+ one

Also zip up your cfs3.exe and send that too.

 

Tests where in QC and in campaign both the same.

 

try 2 gun craft against a few various, Camel, Alb, Dr1, hannover etc etc

 

Why not try one of the turkey shoot missions in Missions and see if you can hit - aim for nose area/wings try .

 

Pol Hi.

 

The install I now have is as above. Having uninstalled, and deleted OFF3 remaining folders in Docs and settings and C Drive and used reg cleaner to really clean it,( though i don't think it found any entries to remove ), I installed OFF3 again on top of an unmodified CFS3 install on a new computer.

I then patched with 1.28a.

I then played it some and had the same - easy go down but intact scenario.

Then I tested again going from hardcore install to Normal instal etc.

Still they went down intact. Sure, some spiralled, some drifted, some went straight on slowly and then down- one did explode , but nowhere was it that wings came off.

I flew mostly the DR1 which is the best plane to fly and shoot in the sim , IMHO., but I also flew the tripe 2 gun and the SE5a

 

I'll try again after a re install, * then, if still the same,the turkey shoot missions, and send the bits you want.

As someone famous once said

"I may be a little time "

 

* - My CFS3 install has now been modded by the install of ETO since yesterday, FYI.

 

Edit- Thinking about it , I'll install , patch to 1.26- try it some , then go to patch 1.28a.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Fortiesboy

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I think that when 1.28a is installed, it defaults to the "easy" (now called normal) DM. With the easy DM, you should be able to shoot the wings off of the AI fairly easily. OTOH, you are also easily shot down by the AI. To install the "hard" DM, you have to go to the downloads page, download the hardcore damage model patch, and then install it on your machine. If you want to go back to the easy DM, you also have to download and install the normal damage model patch.

 

The DM you are describing sounds like the original DM that came before any of the patches. I think that 1.26 was the first patch with the easy DM. Although you shouldn't have to, maybe you have to install 1.28a on top of 1.26?

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Another thought. This wouldn't have anything to do with deleting or not deleting the .bdp files you mentioned in the mods forum, would it?

[Fortiesboy 3]

Thanks for your replies, Taffy, but, and don't take it the wrong way, I'm well ahead of your thoughts on this. :)

 

What I have described is many QC flights in an install, done like this - which i have already mentioned.

 

1. A new computer - top spec.

 

On which was installed a vanilla CFS3 using the original two disc issue * ( I'll come back to this later ) , patched to 3.1a and a mission of CFS3 flown. Now it's ready for OFF3.

 

2. Off 3 installed apparently without a hitch to 1.1 Then it was patched to 1.28a , via 1.26. There were then a number of trials using both the hardcore and normal exes, as you describe.

The lack of damage re wings was noticed in all flights etc.

 

Then I modded, as mentioned in other threads, and a swapping of files etc .

 

Polovski mentioned that 1.26 onwards of a vanilla install should give wings coming off etc.

 

So I uninstalled properly and deleted all folders of Off ( as previously described in another thread ) and re installed as at 2 above. No mods made to xdp files or whatever, - and still the same lack of damage.

 

Then we came to this thread and Polovski's comments re he thinks my install may be "porked " somehow still.

 

So, since my last post and just before this post, I have uninstalled and re installed OFF3 again.

And extensively tested for a couple of hours or so - and still every plane which succombed , fell out of the sky INTACT. NOt one wing came off.

This was test with the install at 1.26 + hotfix; - and then later at 1.28 with normal exe.

I flew against Rookies in Dogfight , and in Turkey Shoot, and the messages confirmed many hits were taken .

 

So, as they say over the Pond - Go Figure ! -lol

 

The only thought i have now is about the CFS3 exe.

Mine is from the install using the original two disc CFS3. ( still need the disc in to play )

Many are from the Ubisoft DVD which I think I'm right in saying doesn't need the disc in to play.

 

Could this be the difference? Could it be that CFS3 original discs users are the ones not getting damage? Thinking out loud here? Which are you using Pol? Taffy? Anyone ?

 

 

cheers

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

No offense taken, Fortiesboy. I was just thinking out loud and trying to make sure you and I had not missed anything.

 

However, now I have to say that I am completely flummoxed about why your DM seems to be messed up. I also have the 2 disk CD (CFS CD has to be in the disc drive) and I have not experienced the problems you are seeing. Although I am now using the hard core DM, when I was using the normal DM I saw wings fly off, engine fires, spins, etc.

 

Maybe you are hitting the engine instead of the wings? I am a lousy shot, so my bullets go everywhere. Try aiming exclusively at the wings to see what happens.

[AROTH 0]

Now, you all have me thinking - (dangerous!)

 

I recall seeing wings coming off after one of the earlier patches (can't recall which one) that did not come off during the original install.

 

Now, after 1.28/1.28a, I don't think I have see that happen at all.

 

Back to testing.....