Harrier GR7

[ChrisBV 30]

That wouldn't be too hard, but I need to find some good reference for it

 

 

I'll see if I can find more photos of the pod itself, but this is how it's loaded in the real aircraft:

 

A recent UOR (Urgent Operational Requirement) by the MoD made possible the purchase of Sniper targeting pods for RAF Harrier GR.7/GR.9/9A operating in Afghanistan. Pod is loaded in a similar way:

[shinobi2204 1]

any chance this could be modded into a GR5? I havent seen a GR5 available yet and i do think its the best looking member of the Harrier family....i will, however, be downloading this beauty

[+bobrock 15]

Thanks for the pics Chris

I have that book, but that should be a GR5: narrower HUD and old type map display. GR7 has 2 MFDs

 

As for the TIALD what I'm looking for is a 2 or 3-view drawing with at least a few basic measures. Otherwise I'll use the Litening's size and weight, it shouldn't be too different.

Anyway thanks to Canadair we're trying to add a TV ARBS to the avionics package.

 

@ shinobi: no GR5 in the pipeline... not yet ;)

[Canadair 16]

Thanks for the pics Chris

I have that book, but that should be a GR5: narrower HUD and old type map display. GR7 has 2 MFDs

,,,

Anyway thanks to Canadair we're trying to add a TV ARBS to the avionics package.

 

..not rocket science, it is just an easy thing. And we are assuming that some TV system might be used in order to place the laser rangefinder part of the ARBS system, which is an assumption I take full "credit" for, and might be totally wrong. any more ideas, please.?

 

So basically Tialds or Snipers are loaded on a modified pylon where the gun pd used to be. Now, a question, what in the hell is a CAS airplane doing without a gun?. And in that place isn't the pod exposed to every sort of debris and dust, and FOD, especially in sTOVL operations?

 

by the way, buzzing Edinburgh Castle in baltika's British isles.

 

Edited April 8, 2009 by Canadair

[TheStig 39]

Are you going to do a GR9 too? I don't think there is much difference externally between the 7 and the 9.

 

Man I can't wait for the GR7!

[+331Killerbee 840]

..not rocket science, it is just an easy thing. And we are assuming that some TV system might be used in order to place the laser rangefinder part of the ARBS system, which is an assumption I take full "credit" for, and might be totally wrong. any more ideas, please.

 

I'll try....

 

The first ARBS System I saw was in 1978. It was on an A-4M. The next Aircraft to have it was the AV-8B. I worked on that in 85'. ARBS (Angle Rate Bombing System), Is basically a AGM-65 TV Camera stuck on the Nose of the Aircraft. It has the same FOV as the aforementioned AGM-65. The Camera is fixed to a onboard Computer that calculates the Angle of attack, Number of Weapons, Interval of Release and Information from the Platform (Aircraft) such as Airspeed, Direction, Weight and Load on the Airframe. The Computer calculates the Information and acts as a form of CCIP and AutoPilot at the same time.

 

The Pilot would select his Weapons and Quanity, Intervals through His Weapons Control Panel, (WCP) Then, select a Target through His DDI(Digital Display Indicator...MFD nowadays) placing the Crosshairs on His Target via a Hat Switch on the Throttle. Once selected, the Aircraft would take over to deliver a pinpoint Strike. The Pilot must take over after Release. This is done by moving the Stick ever so slightly. This piece of Equipment was adopted by the Marines because of the Close Air Support needed by Marines on the ground in contact. They needed accuracy.

 

Since "True" CCIP can not be simulated in Game. ARBS could be made half way functional through a Work-Around.

 

One would first have to set up the ARBS Camera. I think, that's been discused and done. Second, One would have to make a Copy of all Free-Falling Weapons and change them. For example, Take a Mk.82 GPB. You'd have to make a second Mk.82 and call it "Mk.82 ARBS". Now for the fun part. That new Mk.82, Give it TV Guidence and set up the Camera Head in the G&C like a AGM-65. Don't give it any Propulsion. Just Guidence. Now You have a Mk.82 Free Falling Bomb with a TV Camera in the nose of it and will show in Your MFD. You'll still have to pickle the Bomb and act as the On-Board Computer. But from 0 degrees 12 O'Clock above the Target diving on it, To less than 15 degrees angle of Attack, Your Hits will be around the 98, 99 Percentile. Which for accuracy, Is about true to "Real" as the ARBS System preforms.

 

Shame that Bunyap isn't around any more with His Bombing Competitions. This would be the ultimate "Cheat".

 

Funny thing about ARBS, The display one gets in the Game with the Green tint to it, is the same in real life. It's an IR Camera. We used to sit in the Cockpits of our Harriers on the Flightlines, while doing Weapons Release Checks, We'd turn the ARBS on and play with it. We'd lock on to People walking up and down the Flightlines. To Tugs. And to the MJ-4 SATS Loader going around.......On the Ground, You could tell if the Person in the Cockpit was fooling around with it. The Camera would be following You........

 

I hope this gives some insight and stirs up some Ideas and thoughts. I hope this helps......

 

Semper Fi!

 

331KillerBee

Edited April 9, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[+EricJ 4,244]

..not rocket science, it is just an easy thing. And we are assuming that some TV system might be used in order to place the laser rangefinder part of the ARBS system, which is an assumption I take full "credit" for, and might be totally wrong. any more ideas, please.?

 

So basically Tialds or Snipers are loaded on a modified pylon where the gun pd used to be. Now, a question, what in the hell is a CAS airplane doing without a gun?. And in that place isn't the pod exposed to every sort of debris and dust, and FOD, especially in sTOVL operations?

 

by the way, buzzing Edinburgh Castle in baltika's British isles.

 

Dropping bombs here in Afghanistan is more effective than doing gun runs sometimes. Too many damn rocks (the country is a fighting position BTW), so I'd prefer a Sniper pod equipped anything as long as it can drop some bombas. And no the pod is just as liable to get damaged regardless of platforms. The B-1s have to deal with it, along with the A-10s, and F-15Es

 

Besides a Combat Aircraft (or similar magazine) article I read before I deployed stated the TIALD blew rocks (no pun intended) and the Sniper? Damn fine piece of machinery.

[Canadair 16]

Dropping bombs here in Afghanistan is more effective than doing gun runs sometimes. Too many damn rocks (the country is a fighting position BTW), so I'd prefer a Sniper pod equipped anything as long as it can drop some bombas. And no the pod is just as liable to get damaged regardless of platforms. The B-1s have to deal with it, along with the A-10s, and F-15Es

 

Besides a Combat Aircraft (or similar magazine) article I read before I deployed stated the TIALD blew rocks (no pun intended) and the Sniper? Damn fine piece of machinery.

 

 

Thank Killer bee.. I don't know if bobrocks will want to implement a whole new set of weapons for his harriers,, yet the idea makes a lot of sense. And less of more we had a good idea of how the arbs works. But thanks a LOT for the insight.

 

ericj. I know. I understand, bombs and weapons and missile and all. Yet history as already proven that jetfighters need guns. but I don't want to hijack the topic.

As for pod exposed under the belly of planes, they are always prone to FOD, but I had the feeling that such position for the TIALD is even worse because of the warm exaust from the nozzles which ar ejust above. Also, lids cowling had an aerodinamical effect apparently in redirecting exaust gas and controlling aerodynamics under the airplane. Such effect would be lost with the tiald pod attached there. Anyway, just my musings..*S*

[+bobrock 15]

Thanks Killerbee, first hand intel is always the best.

 

Right now I'm facing some little problem with the avionics set-up. To make the camera work, we've added a fake radar which has only Search and TV modes available (without search I guess TV doesn't work).

This is ok, but I'd like to have the ARBS camera on one MFD and a TV scope on the other. Now when I switch to AGM-65s, both MFDs show the same image, if the ARBS is on, that is quite useless.

 

So, the question is, can I have 2 MFDs showing 2 different pictures, one for the radar feed and one for the TV guided missiles?

[+JAT81500 135]

Unfortunatelly, i would say no. I have done many tests on that with no success

[Canadair 16]

Thanks Killerbee, first hand intel is always the best.

 

Right now I'm facing some little problem with the avionics set-up. To make the camera work, we've added a fake radar which has only Search and TV modes available (without search I guess TV doesn't work).

This is ok, but I'd like to have the ARBS camera on one MFD and a TV scope on the other. Now when I switch to AGM-65s, both MFDs show the same image, if the ARBS is on, that is quite useless.

 

So, the question is, can I have 2 MFDs showing 2 different pictures, one for the radar feed and one for the TV guided missiles?

 

Oh I don't thinks this is possible, Beppe. But it is okei,, ARBS is FLIR used for frefall bombing which we are simulating with the EO_CAMERA. TIALD will be used (and should came up) for LGBs,,, and Maverick have their own TV image. Same MFD, but they are three different weapon systems. What is the problem?

[+EricJ 4,244]

Thank Killer bee.. I don't know if bobrocks will want to implement a whole new set of weapons for his harriers,, yet the idea makes a lot of sense. And less of more we had a good idea of how the arbs works. But thanks a LOT for the insight.

 

ericj. I know. I understand, bombs and weapons and missile and all. Yet history as already proven that jetfighters need guns. but I don't want to hijack the topic.

As for pod exposed under the belly of planes, they are always prone to FOD, but I had the feeling that such position for the TIALD is even worse because of the warm exaust from the nozzles which ar ejust above. Also, lids cowling had an aerodinamical effect apparently in redirecting exaust gas and controlling aerodynamics under the airplane. Such effect would be lost with the tiald pod attached there. Anyway, just my musings..*S*

 

That's true enough, but gun runs don't require a pod but it would be killer to see that on the GR7 though, that'd make me download it more than I want to

[sugarblues 0]

Canadair,

 

Hope I'm not dragging the thread back off topic - but the reason the British Harriers aren't carrying guns is another one of those nasty little problems that wiggle into national procurement programs. Basically - instead of using the "standard" US-built gun, they were required to develop a British version. And despite throwing millions of pounds into development, the project is basically stillborn... Royal Ordnance or whatever they're called today can't get the gun to work. Add to that the Treasury doesn't like the costs of "bang-sticks for airplanes"... Politics playing into defense I'm afraid...

 

I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion on Bobrocks latest beauty...!

 

SB

[TheStig 39]

Maybe they don't want guns too because their covered by Eurofighters in the event of battle?

[+331Killerbee 840]

They were offered the GE GAU-12 durning 86' but turned it down. They had a number of 30mm Adens around from their eariler Versions of Harriers so they decided to adapt these Guns in liu of the GAU-12 as a cost saving Measure.......

 

There's more on this Subject in C5's Forum under the GR.5/7 Loadout Thread.......

Edited April 10, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[+331Killerbee 840]

Thanks Killerbee, first hand intel is always the best.

 

Right now I'm facing some little problem with the avionics set-up. To make the camera work, we've added a fake radar which has only Search and TV modes available (without search I guess TV doesn't work).

This is ok, but I'd like to have the ARBS camera on one MFD and a TV scope on the other. Now when I switch to AGM-65s, both MFDs show the same image, if the ARBS is on, that is quite useless.

 

So, the question is, can I have 2 MFDs showing 2 different pictures, one for the radar feed and one for the TV guided missiles?

 

Bobrock,

 

I'm affraid one can't right now. I'm not 100% sure. But I think it's the major difference in Avionics60.dll and Avonics70.dll. In 70, The TV Mode was added. But TW Sims has always only had two current Views used in Game. The Radar Screen, And the Main Screen. I think that TK would have to write another .dll to have more than one "Current View". And I'm of the beleief that, that might take the Developer some time......

 

 

One other Suggestion is that The F/A-18's Cockpit is very much like the AV-8B's. They share the same Avionics Package because the Aircraft's Manufacture's is the same. McDonnell Douglas. Now a part of Boeing Aircraft. You might want to see what the Guys did in regards to the Hornets Avionics to give some insight and Ideas.....

 

 

331KillerBee

Edited April 10, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[+bobrock 15]

Sorry for the lack of updates on this one, but I really had a hard time finding some info on the TIALD and trying different set-ups, so you can decide to load either LIDS or the pod.

 

I have some work left to do, skinning for example , and some decision to take about the best way to carry those devices.

As usual any input is always welcome, here's the result so far.

 

[+aleks 9]

exelent, as usual!!!!!!!

[+ST0RM 145]

She's gorgeous!

 

I wonder how long after you release it, will people be asking for a GR.9?

 

Counting down those two weeks

[+Florian 394]

I wonder how long after you release it, will people be asking for a GR.9?

 

Allready did on post #30 of this topic!

 

Back on track, damn good looking piece of work!

[+Dave 2,322]

Once again the bob that rocks continues to impress.

[+Steve s 11]

:groupwave:

[+JAT81500 135]

Amazing work as usual, thanks a lot.

[+EricJ 4,244]

Now that's beautiful...

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

That`s a realy beauty, I wouldn`t ask for a GR9 I would ask for a twoseater ;-P