Flyboys

[Luftace 0]

This subject has probably been covered before, but I just wanted to know your opinions on the movie as far as how accurate it is and such. They had a few period aircraft in it, true, but with CG and all now days... Do they really think all the germans flew were Fokker Dr I's? C'mon. And where were the screaming indian's head insignias on the aircraft? The only historical figure depicted in the Lafayette Escadrille was the commander, Georges Thenault. Where is Lufberry? Just wish they could make a historical based movie more historical instead of just hollywood fluff. Anywho, I have my opinion, just wanted to know what others think. Tchuss!

[OvS 8]

This subject has probably been covered before, but I just wanted to know your opinions on the movie as far as how accurate it is and such. They had a few period aircraft in it, true, but with CG and all now days... Do they really think all the germans flew were Fokker Dr I's? C'mon. And where were the screaming indian's head insignias on the aircraft? The only historical figure depicted in the Lafayette Escadrille was the commander, Georges Thenault. Where is Lufberry? Just wish they could make a historical based movie more historical instead of just hollywood fluff. Anywho, I have my opinion, just wanted to know what others think. Tchuss!

 

It was crap for authenticity... but a cool story line.

 

1. The Indian head is correct for the Laf Esc, but the Wasp was from Esc 98, and there were other insignias on there as well from other Escadrilles. The N17's looked like NASCAR paint jobs.

2. The N17 was past it's useful combat life when the Dr.1 was in it's heyday of early 1918. So it never would have faced it. N24, N27 maybe, but that was suicide. The Spad XIII was in service by then so that should have been the plane of choice.

3. No, not all Germans flew the Dr.1. Only select elite squadrons did when they were first made mobile on the front. Jastas 11, 12, 14, 18, 6, 4, and 2 to name a few were allocated as Dr.1 Jastas. Then they trickled down from there. And only 2 squadrons flew them with any red. One being Jasta 11 (obviously the Red Baron's own as well) and Jasta 18, which were red and white.

 

I can keep going... but why. Don't watch it for authenticity... you're better off with The Blue Max, which was also a long-stretch, but very good.

 

OvS

[tttiger 0]

"Flyboys" was released in 2006.

 

This is, uh, last time I checked (when you're retired you don't check very often): 2009.

 

What cave have you been sleeping in for three years? I've been to Fort Campbell and it isn't that far out of the mainstream.

 

I'll go a step beyond OvS.

 

It was completely awful, up to and including the silly plot.

 

There was a bit of history it got right (there really was one -- just one -- black pilot named Eugene Bullard and he couldn't get into the USAS when they finally showed up and took in all the other Laf pilots).

 

But 99 percent of it is pure crap and CGI crap at that.

 

You're right about one thing: It has been covered before.

 

I think.

 

If I can remember back that far....

 

So, how did you like "Wings"?

 

ttt

Edited May 11, 2009 by tttiger

[OvS 8]

"Flyboys" was released in 2006.

 

This is, uh, last time I checked (when you're retired you don't check very often): 2009.

 

What cave have you been sleeping in for three years?

 

I'll go a step beyond OvS.

 

It was completely awful, up to and including the silly plot.

 

There was a bit of history it got right (there really was one -- just one -- black pilot named Eugene Bullard and he couldn't get into the USAS when they finally showed up and took in all the other Laf pilots).

 

But 99 percent of it is pure crap and CGI crap at that.

 

You're right about one thing: It has been covered before.

 

I think.

 

If I can remember back that far....

 

So, how did you like "Wings"?

 

ttt

 

TTTiger,

 

He's a newbie, give the guy some breathing room. All questions are accepted on the forum, no matter how many times it's been covered before.

 

Welcome to the OFF Community Luftace.

 

OvS

[tttiger 0]

TTTiger,

 

He's a newbie, give the guy some breathing room. All questions are accepted on the forum, no matter how many times it's been covered before.

 

Welcome to the OFF Community Luftace.

 

OvS

 

 

My post was made with tongue firmly in cheek.

 

Welcome, Luft, from the Great American Desert

 

 

Tony

[Luftace 0]

"Flyboys" was released in 2006.

 

This is, uh, last time I checked (when you're retired you don't check very often): 2009.

 

What cave have you been sleeping in for three years? I've been to Fort Campbell and it isn't that far out of the mainstream.

 

I'll go a step beyond OvS.

 

It was completely awful, up to and including the silly plot.

 

There was a bit of history it got right (there really was one -- just one -- black pilot named Eugene Bullard and he couldn't get into the USAS when they finally showed up and took in all the other Laf pilots).

 

But 99 percent of it is pure crap and CGI crap at that.

 

You're right about one thing: It has been covered before.

 

I think.

 

If I can remember back that far....

 

So, how did you like "Wings"?

 

ttt

 

Yeah, I know, I saw it when it came out 3 years ago, I just have yet to have a chance to discuss it with any knowledgable persons. Wings was great, I havent seen it in probably close to 10 years, but I really did enjoy it. It just sparked my interest in a book I'm reading that focuses a lot on Lufberry, and remembered that Flyboys depicted the Lafayette Esc., but a lot of the stuff from the film wasn't matching up. I wasn't surprised by this, but as I said earlier, just wanted to see what others thought. The book BTW is "To the Last Man" by Jeff Shaara, and so far, 2 of the 4 characters, Lufberry and Richthofen, are pretty accurately presented, especially since he seems to have done thorough research in putting it together including both of their autobiographies and other sources. I have several books on order, including "Fighting the Flying Circus", MvR's auto, and 2 more accounts of the air war. Anywho, I am however trying to learn as much as possible as quick as possible as my current knowledge of this subject matter is still a bit basic, but I can only read so fast, lol. Tchuss!

[Luftace 0]

No offense taken tttiger, I gathered your intent, lol.

[JohnGresham 0]

Flyboys was utter crap!

[griphos 0]

I actually only watched about 20 minutes of Flyboys late one night (I think it was a free weekend preview on one of the premium cable channels) so I'm not qualified to give a full judgment, but accurate? No, I don't think so. I'll add to Tony's assessment, though. They got at least one additional fact correct. There actually was an air war during the years 1914-1918 in Europe. I think they didn't get much closer to reality than that (although apparently one of the pilots did indeed have a pet lion in that squadron).

 

And it could have used a few naked females in my opinion.

 

Welcome aboard Luftace. OFF is about 500% more accurate, IMRUO (=in my rather unlearned opinion) than any movie I've seen on WWI. For nice shots of flying crates, it's hard to beat The Great Waldo Pepper, if you can find a copy of that. And it's got a much better story line (WWI pilot too late to the war to make his mark barnstorming across American during a time when aviation is becoming commercial). Although it doesn't have any naked females either.

Edited May 11, 2009 by griphos

[Olham 164]

Yes, Flyboys was crap, and "The Red Baron" didn't follow von Richthofen's life either.

You can watch both movies, and forget about the names, Squadrons, Jastas - just imagine,

they were about some other unit.

Then Flyboys is still crap; "The Red Baron" a lot better. But even there, I wished, they had

worked together more with people who KNOW a lot about those craft. The dive-away scene

with the Albatros is impossible with those fragile lower wing - they would break away.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Olham

[Luftace 0]

I have yet to see the new red baron movie either, though I may have to check it out for curiosities sake. A few accurate points, as have been pointed out above I have read about though. Once Lufberry got to the Laf., he had a habit of checking and polishing his bullets before loading them into his lewis drums. Alot of the other pilots had joked and jibed at him for this, but it wasnt long before they began to follow suit. Also, the lion mascot, who's name infact was Whiskey, was bought for about 500 francs from a circus or zoo in paris on one of the squadrons liberties, and if the book i am reading is accurate, I believe the pilot went by the name (nickname?) of Prince. Also, I haven't gotten that far yet, but I guess they eventually aquired another lion which they named Soda. I will agree that BHaH is really darn accurate, I know for a fact that I am certainly learning more about events during the war just through the newspaper clippings in the campaign than I ever did when I was in high school, but then again, I did find myself correcting my history teachers occasionly when they would inaccurately lecture on subjects I knew about, i.e. WW2, lol. Tchuss!

[Burning Beard 14]

Well, to put the required line in, "the Flyboys DR1 was porked"......

 

 

 

Beard

[Duce Lewis 3]

I bought the collectors addition of the Flyboys DVD

The little extras and discussions with the filmakers shed some light on what they were trying to do

 

The movie was outwardly based on the Laf Esq, correct planes, black pilot, lion mascot, etc.

But the characters were based on the 94th Aero Squadron, Lufbery leading, Rickenbacker, Luke

This explains some of the weird scenes in the movie

A new crew of flight school grads show up and you give them your best brand new planes???

Assign your best pilot the perilous job as their squad lead without any other experienced flight leaders???

 

Sadly, each story is worthy of a movie of its own

Nieup 17's vs Alb II's or Nieup 28's vs Triplanes if you want

They even built the Nieup 17's just for the movie

So it wasn't a matter of just using whatever crates were available

Hollywood tried to squash 2 stories into 1 and ended up with an unbelievable one

 

I agree the flight scenes were awful, vertical Nieups, the Zepplin mobbed by Dr1's, the pistol scene where the villain got his due

...could got on forever here

 

But Flyboys did have some good points

The training scenes seemed very authentic

The comeraderie of the squadmates

And I just loved Lucienne as Rawlings love interest

But best of all was just to see WWI crates in flight

 

The search goes on for a really great WWI movie

I have Dawn Patrol and Hell's Angels on order now

And hopefully Der Rote Baron will get released here someday

 

Cheers,

[tttiger 0]

Well, your search is over.

 

"The Blue Max" is just the opposite of "Flyboys": The flight scenes (all real and filmed in Ireland, no computer cartoons) are simply magnificent.

 

The story (which centers on defending the "honor" of the German officer corps) is a tad lame but Ursula is wonderful to look at and Jeremy Kemp is perfect as a German aristocrat.

 

And George Peppard? "I love it when a plan comes together!"

 

http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res...FB066838D679EDE

 

It also was an excellent novel:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Max-Jack-D-Hunt...3435&sr=1-1

 

ttt

Edited May 12, 2009 by tttiger

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

(IMHO) Flyboys and The Red Baron were amongst my all time worse ever movies.

 

I managed to just about sit all the way through Flyboys..until the final Pistol shot scene.... I just switched it off at that point.

 

As for Red Baron?..... The biggest load of old tosh I have ever witnessed in my life!!...even forgiving the appalling acting, the unreal dogfights, the historical innacuracies....and just watching purely for it's entertainment value?...Still utter tosh!

Edited May 12, 2009 by UK_Widowmaker

[Creaghorn 10]

imho the plot i like the most is from aces high. it shows realistically the life of veterans, and novice pilots.

flight scenes in movies of this era (blue max, corman's red baron, aces high...) are imho too cautios, to choreographic, too much bad cuts (one sequence 3000 meters, next 6000, next sequence, treetop level) and annoying sound effects (stukasound on every hit aircraft).

flyboys and new red baron are a piece of crap in any way.

the new red baron wouldn't have been so bad if they would have had added some more flightscences and left the lovestory completely out. and of course a different actor as MvR, one who looks like a young man and who has the eyes of a hunter where you can see the will of steel, and not like a metrosexual, androgynic, free dancer. but i like the pictures and colors in the movie.

 

flight scenes i like the most are in hells angels. there are pilots who dare to use the aircraft. the dogfights are breathtaking and look real, not choreographic

[themightysrc 5]

To be frank about it, there hasn't ever been a decent fillum about WWI's air war, which is a pity, given the stark horrors and dangers of the fighting, and the chances of an early grave for combatants. You'd think that would provide fertile ground for a decent scriptwriter, even before taking into account any interest in the technical and historical details.

 

The BBC did a series in the late 70s (I think, don't hold me to dates) which was rather doomy as I recall, and had a good period feel to it, but which wasn't an endless bloodfest. Top notch stuff.

 

I suppose the best films about WWI are the ones made about the fighting on the ground, and for good reason. I'd thoroughly recommend 'All quiet on the Western front' and 'Paths of Glory' to anyone.

[OvS 8]

To be frank about it, there hasn't ever been a decent fillum about WWI's air war, which is a pity, given the stark horrors and dangers of the fighting, and the chances of an early grave for combatants. You'd think that would provide fertile ground for a decent scriptwriter, even before taking into account any interest in the technical and historical details.

 

Good point, and 100% correct. Of all the war movies that have been made, those that have gotten it right, and conveyed the idea of the war with 90% accuracy...

 

How the hell can they keep screwing up the easiest of the all... WWI. Even Band of Brothers was very believable and accurate. Nope... every WWI movie looks like a bad Playstation 3 game.

 

Makes no sense. I wish we could make our own movie... or at least advise someone how it too.

 

OvS

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Good point, and 100% correct. Of all the war movies that have been made, those that have gotten it right, and conveyed the idea of the war with 90% accuracy...

 

How the hell can they keep screwing up the easiest of the all... WWI. Even Band of Brothers was very believable and accurate. Nope... every WWI movie looks like a bad Playstation 3 game.

 

Makes no sense. I wish we could make our own movie... or at least advise someone how it too.

 

OvS

 

I agree!.... My Old dad always used to kick off watching War Films, saying "Why do they have to have Bloody Love Stories in them?"

 

He would have really liked Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Good Morning All,

 

Fun discussion going here folks, but let me add that if you are really looking for the WORST WWI air war film ever made it has to be "Von Richthofen and Brown" from 1971. If any of you remember it you know what I am talking about. And if you haven't seen, you must find it and prepare for the wretching, laughing, head-shaking, and screaming at the TV, "OMG you have GOT to be kidding me!" .

 

As to the "best" films on the subject, I agree on "The Blue Max", and also would include "Dawn Patrol" from 1938. Both are well-made, well-acted, and a bit more accurate.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Mr. Lucky 0]

Flyboys: Decent story line, completely unauthentic and pandering. Yes, there was a black pilot but nowhere near the Lafayette Escadrille. If they felt they had to include him as some statement, they could've had him visit the squadron for a time, etc. What really rolls a turd about Flyboys is the director is touted as a WWI aviation expert. I too got the director's cut and it merely illustrated to me how juvenile the film makers really were.

 

Red Baron: Much better film. If you forget it's about MvR. Continuity and time jumping was bad but it was nice to see Germans fly something besides red triplanes. The dubbing was ridiculous.

 

The Blue Max: Stlll the best one made that I've seen. (Still have yet to see Wings and Aces High). And I really don't like George Peppard. The only German pilot in the film who spoke English without a German accent.

 

I'll be the one to mention it....Crossing the Line....still waiting for the full length feature. A great 5 minutes though.

[Creaghorn 10]

I'll be the one to mention it....Crossing the Line....still waiting for the full length feature. A great 5 minutes though.

 

 

i am not sure, but as long as i know it's not intended to have full length. it was only to test some new sort of camera.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

What about Aces High?..that was on TV yesterday..I think that's quite a good film. (thought the Germans using red painted Crop dusters was pretty stupid!

Edited May 12, 2009 by UK_Widowmaker

[Cameljockey 3]

Lord knows Peter Jackson has the aircraft. Correct me someone, if I'm wrong, but doesn't he own this place?

 

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/vintage-avi...age-aviator-ltd

 

CJ

 

PS: Knowing that "Flyboys" and "The Red Baron" weren't documentaries (or even reasonable facsimiles thereof) going in, I thoroughly enjoyed both flicks. BTW, how long was that Zeppelin in "Flyboys"? It seemed very fast also, almost as fast as the planes!

Edited May 12, 2009 by Cameljockey

[Creaghorn 10]

What about Aces High?..that was on TV yesterday..I think that's quite a good film. (thought the Germans using red painted Crop dusters was pretty stupid!

 

aces high, one of the plots i like the most in ww1 aviation movies.