AIR DEFENSE SYSTEMS CONTROLED BY HUMAN

[Pap]

The Air Defense (AD) Systems in SFP1,WOE,WOI now are controlled by AI of the game software. This can be changed and to be controlled by human (operators).

How? We all know that when the Air planes are on ground they can fire their guns and their missiles.

So, we need to create/modify the existing (and not only) AD systems from ground objects to airplanes (lods and the cockpits to become radar screens).

You can imagine how much fun/interesting will be the game (at least for us the air defenders).

 

I hope to see that working :yes:

Pap

[+ST0RM]

I thought of something similar, but with tanks. Could they be made into usable vehicles by treating them as aircraft? Obviously new bases (like the highway strip) would be needed close to the battle as the drive would be too long.

 

Are you heading this AD project up?

[Pap]

I thought of something similar, but with tanks. Could they be made into usable vehicles by treating them as aircraft? Obviously new bases (like the highway strip) would be needed close to the battle as the drive would be too long.

 

Are you heading this AD project up?

 

I use to be Air defender for 20 years and i have experince in USA systems (Hawk,Stinger,Patriot) and Russian (OSA-AKM/SA-8B and TOR-M1/SA-15).

I know the basics in modding.

I would like to cooperate and support this project if there will be interest about this.

 

Pap

[+Stary]

I was also thinking about such mod once.

 

Something similar was made for CFS3 (ie. ETO expansion), you could drive around in a tank or even PT boat.

 

But in CFS3 they have various gunner positions that can be manned. We can't. So the "gunnery" would be limited to taxing on ground and firing guided missiles.

[+ST0RM]

Welcome Pap.

 

We'll see what can become of this. Hopefully this is something we can do. Would make for an interesting twist.

 

Start digging around the inis and see what can be changed.

 

-Jeff

[Derk]

Good old Air Warrior (my fist sim) had the feauture. One could drive a truck, jeep or T34/85 , fire the gun and devastate an airfield but also and for instance blow up the Bandenburger Tor, Eiffel Tower, Tower Bridge or even shipping in Pearl Harbour....

 

Hou doe,

 

Derk

[eraser_tr]

Well in my Oct.08 patched WOE install, when you are on the ground, you can't fire any weapons.

[Pap]

Well in my Oct.08 patched WOE install, when you are on the ground, you can't fire any weapons.

 

OK. I can not fire guns, but i can fire my missiles which fits my approach ...

 

Pap

[ndicki]

It's a bit easier in CFS3. As you can occupy the gunner's position, you build a tank, say, with a driver's position (=pilot) and a gunner's position. The gunner can elevate and traverse the gun just as though it were an aircraft turret, which in fact is all it is. If you then add an aircraft flight dynamics file which reduces the ground speed to the correct one for the type of vehicle, and generates no lift, you're in business.

 

There are problems; one is that steep hills or severe changes in gradient cause it to explode, as does running into any form of ground object.

 

It could be more difficult in SF; as far as I know, it is not possible to elevate or traverse guns except by elevating or turning the vehicle. This would not stop you making a jeep - dead simple - but a firing vehicle could be difficult if you intend the guns to be player-operated. Missiles might be easier, but you'd have to make them fixed-azimuth.

 

One up for CFS3... Pity TK can't do everything, but as AF/WOX is about "modern" air warfare, it's hardly necessary, let's be honest.

Edited May 24, 2009 by ndicki

[Lexx_Luthor]

Just a guess but it may be possible to somewhat elevate the nose using engine thrust, or backing off thrust after powering up.

[Pap]

Just a guess but it may be possible to somewhat elevate the nose using engine thrust, or backing off thrust after powering up.

 

That is also my approach. Azimth can be controled by changing the position and the direction of the engines With the use of the rudder or to attach

the cockpit and rails to the elevators elevation can be controled

 

Pap

[DaSpungie]

and how about ships like destroyers treat some weps like turrets on bombers?

[ndicki]

Sure, but you'd have no control over them. All you could do would be drive into trouble and let the AI gunners get on with it. Not quite the thing I think we've got in mind! Which is looking pretty unlikely, if not actually impossible...

[Pap]

Sure, but you'd have no control over them. All you could do would be drive into trouble and let the AI gunners get on with it. Not quite the thing I think we've got in mind! Which is looking pretty unlikely, if not actually impossible...

 

Dear ndicki, i assure you that you can have full control over them (to what i am proposing).

Just change the attacment position and angle of the the weapon stations (in order the missiles not to hit hte ground when fired) at the proper INI file.

Use the rudder for yaw, lock and fire at will... :yes:

 

Pap

[+FastCargo]

Cockpits cannot be attached to any part. You can't move a cockpit except through a hardcoded animation in built into the cockpit model (ask Florian about that). That animation would have to also be in the external model so they can be linked. And your view will not follow the cockpit...it would have to be moved seperately.

 

An easier option is simply to build a detailed interior for your air defense weapon and use the OpenCockpit method to 'sit' in it.

 

The attachment of weapons to flight controls to simulate elevation and azimuth controls appears to be valid...I've already tested the concept. Perhaps using the elevator for elevation, aileron for azimuth, and use rudder in combination with thrust to move the ground vehicle the 'turret' is attached to by using nose wheel steering. You might even be able to back up if you use thrust vectoring.

 

However, the big issue is the one eraser already brought up...missiles do not appear to be able to fire on the ground.

 

FC

[Pap]

Cockpits cannot be attached to any part. You can't move a cockpit except through a hardcoded animation in built into the cockpit model (ask Florian about that). That animation would have to also be in the external model so they can be linked. And your view will not follow the cockpit...it would have to be moved seperately.

 

An easier option is simply to build a detailed interior for your air defense weapon and use the OpenCockpit method to 'sit' in it.

 

The attachment of weapons to flight controls to simulate elevation and azimuth controls appears to be valid...I've already tested the concept. Perhaps using the elevator for elevation, aileron for azimuth, and use rudder in combination with thrust to move the ground vehicle the 'turret' is attached to by using nose wheel steering. You might even be able to back up if you use thrust vectoring.

 

However, the big issue is the one eraser already brought up...missiles do not appear to be able to fire on the ground.

 

FC

 

Dear FastCargo, thank you very much for your reply.

My dream (SAM controled by human in a mix enviroment) is coming closer to real...

I would love to see more guidence/instractions about this (how to do it).

 

PS: In my WOE (Oct 2008) I can fire on the ground ...

 

Pap

 

[+FastCargo]

Interesting.

 

What type of missile...IRM,SAHM,or AHM?

 

Radar lock?

 

Hard avionics mode?

 

 

 

Well, my major question here is to what end are you researching this.

 

Here's why:

 

You can't use them in campaigns...the TW engine will assume you're an aircraft and give you aircraft distances to target.

 

You can't use them in computer generated single missions because of the same reason.

 

You can only use them in hand built single missions where you know all the parameters. And the AI won't use them the same way because it assumes they are aircraft.

 

So basically, the only unit that can take advantage of this is the one you operate.

 

Just letting you know the limitations up front.

 

FC

[Lexx_Luthor]

Yep, hand made missions it would seem, as the sim is closed locked tighter than a drum for dynamic campaign engine modding. All that is lacking is a map-wide combat results text file. Thus Lowengrin never could make a dynamic campaign for us, but his campaign engine saved FB/PF for many offline players for the simple reason FB/PF has that "eventlog" text file.

 

For my Siberian Sky campaign, I do intend to program an independent dynamic mission generator but input for the data will have to come from estimating unit losses or their effects with external camera after all combat ends. As far as I know, its the only way.

[Pap]

Interesting.

 

What type of missile...IRM,SAHM,or AHM?

 

Radar lock?

 

Hard avionics mode?

 

 

 

Well, my major question here is to what end are you researching this.

 

Here's why:

 

You can't use them in campaigns...the TW engine will assume you're an aircraft and give you aircraft distances to target.

 

You can't use them in computer generated single missions because of the same reason.

 

You can only use them in hand built single missions where you know all the parameters. And the AI won't use them the same way because it assumes they are aircraft.

 

So basically, the only unit that can take advantage of this is the one you operate.

 

Just letting you know the limitations up front.

 

FC

 

 

I see...

Well, the missiles are IRM,SAHM,and AHM. The avionics are in easy mode.

For me, even one unit one operator it's OK. Still, hopping for something more ...

 

Best regards

Pap

[+FastCargo]

That's what it is...easy avionics allows you to fire on the ground.

 

Still not completely sold on the idea...but I've got a testbed in mind.

 

FC

[+Florian]

Ground Units set up as aircrafts would allow another option. Imagine flying past an enemy tank group in an attack helo, with an AI controlled gun. He will finaly use the gun against these tanks as the gunner position only fires at "Air" targets!

You would still have the same restriction described by FC, but as he also stated, for use in scripted single missions it would be a great fun i guess!