@Comrpnt

[Fubar512 1,350]

Just thought that you'd appreciate a peek at what I'm up to

 

A trio of Udaloy class FFGs tied up on the west side of the harbor

 

The Slava moored on the East side

 

Thanks again

[Stick 773]

That was an almost impossible to complete mission set....Ive never ever flown into a SAM environment that was so hot!

[Fubar512 1,350]

That was an almost impossible to complete mission set....Ive never ever flown into a SAM environment that was so hot!

 

And just to think that was before I came along, and placed several Udaloy-class FFGs with combined SA-19/30mm CIWS mounts, Nanuchka missile corvettes with SA-8s and 57 MM guns, and other likewise heavily armed ships, in Rostock harbor.

[+comrpnt 16]

And just to think that was before I came along, and placed several Udaloy-class FFGs with combined SA-19/30mm CIWS mounts, Nanuchka missile corvettes with SA-8s and 57 MM guns, and other likewise heavily armed ships, in Rostock harbor.

Excellent - although I don't fancy the odds on coming through that extra lot!

 

Some folks reading this thread might be thinking "Uh?" as I know there are quite a few prereqs and some are now hard to come by - from the archives you can see what's being hinted at above here: http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5209

 

Cheers, comrpnt.

[Canadair 16]

Excellent - although I don't fancy the odds on coming through that extra lot!

 

Some folks reading this thread might be thinking "Uh?" as I know there are quite a few prereqs and some are now hard to come by - from the archives you can see what's being hinted at above here: http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5209

 

Cheers, comrpnt.

 

I have to ask,, will slava and udaloy be released? In that case,, thanks!

[Fubar512 1,350]

Yes, at least the Slava will. The Udaloy II pictured is someone else's project.

[Canadair 16]

Yes, at least the Slava will. The Udaloy II pictured is someone else's project.

 

lovely,, thanks fubar

[Fubar512 1,350]

A quick vid to give one a taste of what it's like (so far). Air defenses were set to "normal", all SAMs were launched from ships in the harbor.

 

Rostock.wmv

[+EricJ 4,244]

Nice, needs more stand off weaponry to really accomplish the mission though.. looks good, making this for SF2:E?

[Fubar512 1,350]

The only issue with standoff weapons, is that currently, in all TW titles, if you place a radar-equipped ground object "by hand", while its radar works so far as guiding a SAM or directing gunfire, it does not show up on any RWRs (though your wingman will still report that they're being "spiked" by a tracking radar, and will warn you if that unit lofts a SAM).

[+EricJ 4,244]

Don't think so, all the SAMs that I've converted for SF2 go through a "shoot at me" process, I place it on the map for a custom single mission, and I get engaged by it. And this is all solo work by myself. So maybe they fixed it with SF2, but I don't upload a SAM mod unless it A) fires, and B) shows up on the TEWS.

[Fubar512 1,350]

Nope. If you place them on a map as fixed objects they do not show up on any RWR, irregardless of SF-version, in a system generated mission. They'll work as advertised in a scripted mission, but not in a system-generated one. Sorry, but it is what it is, and Wrench can attest to that.

[+EricJ 4,244]

Not sure how they're not showing up, I've seen every system on the RWR and I fly solo... so not sure what you're getting at or whatnot, but my TEWS works fine...

[+EricJ 4,244]

But... if you're talking about Ship Radar? I would say maybe for earlier gen SF series... Jun 2009b, I get the CVN71_static's radar fine. Matter of fact I have to figure it out what the radar system is. So that could be the disconnect, maybe TK finally fixed a bug with ships, not sure but if that's the case then they're working on the RWR/TEWS.

[+PureBlue 71]

Fubar is right, objects that are created using the terrain types/targets.ini , that have radar, will not paint in the RWR. Except of course generic SamRadar, SamLauncher, EWR definitions. For example none of the Meko Frigates that I put in a harbour will paint your RWR, nor a hand placed specific Hawk/Nike Radar Site.. This is different from creating a single mission and placing them yourself, then they do work correctly. I've already checked old versions of the game and it works in v08.30.06, so it got broken after the Oct2008 patches I think. Still broken in 2nd gen.

Edited July 19, 2009 by pureblue

[+EricJ 4,244]

Still doesn't rule out the use of stand off weaponry. You know it radiates anyways, so the effect is still there, you launch a HARM and it's bound to track on something, so regardless if it's not showing up or not, it's not like you can't not use it. And it's not like a harbor full of ships is mobile and able to move quickly. And I wasn't just talking about HARMs. Matter of fact I didn't even mention the use of anti-radiation missiles in my first post, good that people are paying attention I meant stuff like JSOW, SLAM, BGM-109. I know the AI doesn't use them as efficiently as they should, but I'm not hopping in that nest of vipers for the sake of machoism.

 

And even going with the RWR bug, doesn't mean if the AI can spot it, they can't shoot it. Load up some more HARMs on the loadouts, and you can get a vast majority of the radars anyways, so it's not like the mission can't be beat without the right planning.

[+allenjb42 4,234]

I think I know what Eric's getting at.

 

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[Uhu 2]

Hello!

 

Just a question: how much technical reality is included in your mission, Comrpnt?

Because if a Slava commander had tried to enter the port, he would have buried his ship really quickly in the mud of the harbor bottom - Rostock's Stadthafen, that you have depicted and that I'm currently looking at out of my window has currently only a maximum allowed ship draught of 6,4 meters, too shallow for a Slava with a draught of 8,4 meters. Even the fishing port in Marienehe can some 2km downstream only accept ships with a maximum draught of 8 meters; the old Neptun naval yard is located between the Stadthafen and the fishing port. The newer naval yard, currentyl owned and/or operated by the Wadan group AFAIK, should be able to accept warships in cruiser size, as the Überseehafen on the other sie of the Warnow can operate ships up to a draught of 13 meters. Last thing: there is the naval base of Hohe Düne, currently home of a fast patrol boat squadron (the 7. Schnellbootgeschwader with the Gepard class fast attack craft).

 

For more information, I've made a Google Maps search pointing to all locations mentioned above:

 

A = Am Strande, east end of the Stadthafen. B = Location of the former Neptun naval yard. C = Fishing Port Rostock-Marienehe. D = The naval yard in Wanemünde, currently in use. E = approx. the center of the Überseehafen with the location of a factory of the Liebherr corporation. F = Naval base of Hohe Düne (clickable link) ,

 

and for those understanding german, the Wikipedia article about the port of Rostock, nicely written:

 

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafen_Rostock

 

In case that anybody fells annoyed by this post, I first make an apology and I promise that I will try out this mission thoroughly. :yes:

 

Greets, Uhu

[Fubar512 1,350]

Hello!

 

Just a question: how much technical reality is included in your mission, Comrpnt?

Because if a Slava commander had tried to enter the port, he would have buried his ship really quickly in the mud of the harbor bottom - Rostock's Stadthafen, that you have depicted and that I'm currently looking at out of my window has currently only a maximum allowed ship draught of 6,4 meters, too shallow for a Slava with a draught of 8,4 meters. Even the fishing port in Marienehe can some 2km downstream only accept ships with a maximum draught of 8 meters; the old Neptun naval yard is located between the Stadthafen and the fishing port. The newer naval yard, currentyl owned and/or operated by the Wadan group AFAIK, should be able to accept warships in cruiser size, as the Überseehafen on the other sie of the Warnow can operate ships up to a draught of 13 meters. Last thing: there is the naval base of Hohe Düne, currently home of a fast patrol boat squadron (the 7. Schnellbootgeschwader with the Gepard class fast attack craft).

 

So I take it that (back in the day), Nanuchkas and possibly smaller FFGs are about all that might have been berthed at the Neptun yard?

 

Nothing beats having a "man on the scene", to help sort things out. The harbor is laid out, and is shaped quite differently from the one in the sim. Unfortunately, that's how things usually are, most of the time in the simulation world.

 

The area seems very interesting from that Google Earth perspective, and quite picturesque, especially south of the harbor, where the river meanders through the countryside.

[+comrpnt 16]

Hello Uhu, as Fubar put it, nice to hear from someone who is actually there.

 

You ask about technical reality and my short answer is "not much". But to qualify that further, this is because the stock terrain in WOE and the rest of the TW series is pretty basic and only a rough approximation of reality - as you can testify by looking out of your window. For Op. Rubicon I chose Rostock because it represented a Warsaw PACT port within striking distance of the NATO forces I wanted to use in this scenario. Other choices were Stralund and Greifswald which are too far East for a surprise attack by a large force, such as the one I had in mind. My motivation was to pull in as many air assets as possible in a coordinated attack on a single large well-defended strategic target.

 

But of course there are other aspects of reality that can be written into a mission for the TW series - take the excellent work of the YAP team and their story telling based on real accounts. If you can find someone who was there to ask I expect that what YAP offers will give the player as realistic an experience that can be had on a PC to that felt by the folks who were really there. For Op. Rubicon I designed the attack in phases that I envisaged would be similar to how a real mission of this type would be planned - for example, opening up the border defenses with HARM attacks, followed by waves of bombers with A2A fighter cover. Not being employed by the military as a mission planner (in real life) I wrote it as I 'imagined' it would be done. If anyone reading this has real experience of how this type of mission would be planned then I'd love to hear their comments on how they would do it differently.

 

So I guess, in summary, there are only degrees of reality you can ever hope to get from missions in this series of games. With the historical recreations I've done, mostly for VMFA-531 in Vietnam, and also now for the ODS mod, you can get a bit more depth to the feeling that you're reliving someone elses experiences. For this particular mission though one quote still makes me smile, made by Kopis n Xiphos, "a rare example for me, a moment when I actually start to sweat even though it's only a game". That's a great outcome for me. If I can work with the right tools, such as detailed terrains, and quality aircraft and ground models, then certainly the reality that can be put into this Sim is good, and certainly worth the work.

 

I hope you get a chance to play this scenario, despite the large number of pre-reqs required. And if a bead of sweat starts to run as the SAMs start to fly when you're settled on your bomb run approaching the 'rough approximation' that is Rostock harbour, then I consider that Mission Accomplished. Now that is reality!

 

Cheers, regards, comrpnt. :-)

[Stick 773]

A bead of sweat eh? I think my nuts well nigh shrunk flying that one!

[Uhu 2]

Nothing beats having a "man on the scene", to help sort things out. The harbor is laid out, and is shaped quite differently from the one in the sim. Unfortunately, that's how things usually are, most of the time in the simulation world.

 

The area seems very interesting from that Google Earth perspective, and quite picturesque, especially south of the harbor, where the river meanders through the countryside.

 

Having read this, I planned for a while to take some photographs of this area, especially since I got my DSLR in september. I've collected some pictures now, maybe you'll appreciate them. :) If it is of any interest: they should have meaningful EXIF's. As for licensing, I put them under the CC-BY-NC-SA 3.0 (Creative Commons Attribution required Non-Commercial Share Alike 3.0). As attribution, my name, found in the EXIF's is to be used.

 

This is the part of the Stadthafen nearest to the city, with the museum harbour and a marina at the extreme left of the image - the gantry crane is used to take sailboats in and out of water at boating season's ends. It's just in the middle betweenn the points A and B from the Google Maps-search from my previous post. The green arrow shows my photo spot, the crane is on the protruding square lefthands.

 

This is the Stadthafen too. The first view was directly downstream, this one is directly upstream. You may discern the gantry crane (a great landmark!) in the background behind the MS Georg Büchner, a former passenger-cargo ship of the Deutsche Seereederei Rostock (the GDR state shipping company). The arrow marks approximately my spot - this Google Maps image is quite outdated, there are some new constructions now.

 

This is a view of a former shipyard building with a crane, now converted into a shopping mall. A ramp for ship launches may still be discernible.

 

The so called Kabutzenhof, view downstrem. The aforementioned crane is visible is the left background. There are some condominium buildings under construction in the middle and the right. Photo spot.

 

This is a view directly into the museum harbour. As a matter of fact, the house with my apartment is visible on the extreme right. The gantry crane is again a great landmark; the ship in the middle out the icebreaker Stephan Jantzen, out of service since 2006. The buildings behind the Stephan Jantzen mark the point A of the Maps search. Again, I'll show my (approx.) photo spot.

 

Another view of the Unterwarnow, upstream, with the "A-spot-buildings" in the background. There is a man-powered crane visible in the middle right background, it is a reconstruction of a crane used for centenaries in the odl harbour of Rostock. Photo spot.

 

 

This is simply a image of the Unterwarnow, looking downstream. The curve towards the baltic sea can be surmised.

 

This is a wide angle close up of the MS Georg Büchner. It now houses a youth hostel.

 

This is a panoramical view (from the roof of my house at dusk) of a portion of the Unterwarnow. The gantry crane is on the left and the 2 cranes of the first picture in the middle between it and the centered "Stephan Jantzen". The buildings of "spot A" are out of the right side of the image.

 

Greets, Uhu

[+comrpnt 16]

Hi Uhu, greetings. Many thanks for posting these wonderful photos. I particularly like the night-time shots and the panoramic.

 

Kind regards, comrpnt. :-)