Got my CH Pedals! Flying is tougher, more immersive

[Hellshade 110]

I just got my CH Pedals today and they are a blast in OFF! I followed all of the advice and made sure to turn off Brakes, alierons and elevators on them then set rudder to X Throttle. Turned off rudder access on the Logitech joystick. I can tell it's going to take awhile to get used to using the pedals instead of the twisty stick (since I'm not a pilot), but it will be worth it. It seems like I can turn tighter with the pedals for some reason. Not sure if thats true or if it just feels different. The pedals seem a lot more sensitive than the twisty stick was. Anyways, I'm glad I got them before the force feedback joystick (which will be next). I have to learn to fly all over again so I'm just setting up QC against a lone DIII, me in a very stable SE5a and trying to stay behind him. Keep upping the skill from novice to veteran to ace and then bump up to a better EA to try and stay on the next guys tail. Talk about immersion though. I'm working up a sweat just trying to follow a DIII, which used to be a cake walk.

 

Hellshade

[Rickitycrate 10]

As great as OFF is out of the box as we upgrade our gear it ups the realism and the devs. come out with fixes and more planes it just seems to be a dynamic experience that offers something new one way or another and all for the good. Hellshade I am happy for you and I can relate. FFB stick is good to have too if you don't have one yet. Anyway good for you and good luck adjusting.

[Duce Lewis 3]

I just got my CH Pedals today and they are a blast in OFF!

 

...I have to learn to fly all over again .

Good show Hellshade!

You're gonna love em!

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Have fun with that new addition Hellshade, from what everyone says it makes a world of difference in flying this sim. I have been saving up my pennies as well to purchase a set of the Saitek PZ35 Pro Flight pedals, and I am planning on ordering them up next week. Any words of advice from folks who are currently using these in OFF?

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Check Six 2]

Have fun with that new addition Hellshade, from what everyone says it makes a world of difference in flying this sim. I have been saving up my pennies as well to purchase a set of the Saitek PZ35 Pro Flight pedals, and I am planning on ordering them up next week. Any words of advice from folks who are currently using these in OFF?

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

Lou,

 

I have a set of Saitek Pro Flight Pedals, my first ever rudder pedals. Like most here, I relied on a twisty stick, thinking this was at the least "sufficient". You'll love your Saitek Rudder Pedals. Perhaps we can help each other.

They worked fine straight out of the box for me. If you have a Saitek Joystick, you'll find the included software has a similar set-up to program the functions etc (though I don't have any set...can't see any need). The foot pedals have three adjustable positions for setting foot length. The settings enable you to make it more suitable for your feet, and are easy to adjust. A couple of velcro lengths with double sided tape will enable you to anchor them properly (If necessary - I use them on a lino floor, and they don't slip at all). A couple of removable (optional) foot rests complete the hardware.

The only modification of any kind needed to fly effectively in OFF is to remove the "toe brake" function. If you fly with them activated, you may not actually operate the toe brakes at all during flight, but I accidentally operated them once when slightly adjusting my seating position and pushed the toe brakes down. Tragedy! BIG mistake. Initially, as set by the factory (or as read by the OFF software...not sure which as I'm yet to utilise the toe brake function in FSX or other sims) they operate your elevators and ailerons. You need to disable this function.

I didn't try in Saitek software management, I just went to OFF, launched a plane in QC, and while still on the ground, hit Escape to access the drop-down menu. The "Controls" option should show you a menu that assigns key controls etc. It also shows your devices/hardware. Your rudder pedals should appear there.

Open this sub-menu up, and you should see x and y axes. Please forgive my inability to tell you for certain which of these to remove, but I'm at work, with no access to OFF

I think it's the second one as you scroll down. It shows you the axis type, then the function assigned to it. You need to simply delete the function. Before you remove anything, PLEASE remember to write down exactly its status so that if that doesn't work, you can restore it and try the other one.

I don't have access to OFF at home either, as I've disconnected the PC that it is loaded on, and connected up my new computer, and haven't as yet installed OFF on the new one

Shameful, yes I know.

But I will do it this weekend. I will pay particular attention to the process that I use to remove the toe brake function and I'll get back to you Lou.

Now...to the help I require from you. The pedals have a central dial that is marked with two arrows, one clockwise, one counter-clockwise that are used to alter the tension stting. I couldn't get mine to budge at all. This is ok, as the tension that is factory-set is fine by me. I suppose I got used to it. But I'm curious as to how to adjust the setting. Perhaps if and when you get yours set up, you might report back if possible.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Great! Thanks for the info Steve. I will keep you posted on when they arrive and if I can turn the tension adjuster on mine.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Check Six 2]

Lou,

 

I installed OFF and got the good oil on removing the toe brake function. Here's what you will need to do...

 

Start a QC on the ground. Check that indeed your left toe brake operates the ailerons and your right toe brake operates the elevator. If they do...

 

Escape

Controls

Joystick Type - Select "Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals"

Event Category - Select "Axis Commands"

 

It should show

 

Event.................Control

 

Aileron Axis.........Axis X................Delete Assignment

Elevator Axis.......Axis Y................Delete Assignment

Rudder Axis.........Axis Rudder.........Leave this one there

 

Save Configuration as... Type in "Mine" (without the quotation marks)

 

OK

 

Then escape to return you to your aircraft on the ground...check your ailerons operate, check your rudder operates, and that your toe brakes DON'T operate elevators or ailerons.

 

Done!

 

Enjoy your new rudders mate.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Excellent! I have copied and pasted your instructions so I'll have them at the ready for when I get those new pedals. Thanks again Steve.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Duce Lewis 3]

I just got my CH Pedals today and they are a blast in OFF! I followed all of the advice and made sure to turn off Brakes, alierons and elevators on them then set rudder to X Throttle. Turned off rudder access on the Logitech joystick.

Lou, I'm not sure if this is how it works for Saitek Peds

But OFF/cfs3 recognises CH peds as another joystick

Terminology may be a little different, but you'll need to delete the duplicate controls as Hellshade notes here

[Check Six 2]

Duce,

 

I have the Saitek pedals, and did a complete install last night/this morning, and I paid careful attention to the steps needed to remove the toe brake function for the Saitek pedals so I could let Lou know. Indeed, CFS3 recognises the Saitek rudder pedals as another joystick (at least it is recorded under "Joystick type" - it actually understands that they are rudder pedals - perhaps this simply is easier than creating another drop down menu for "Rudder Pedals Type"). I don't know for certain if it is the same for the CH pedals, but it might be worth a try.

[Duce Lewis 3]

When you delete the Toe Brakes, are you actually deleting the Aileron and Elevator functions?

 

Don't forget to delete the Twisty Rudder on your real JS too

[Check Six 2]

Duce,

 

You are deleting the elevator and aileron functions from the rudder pedals only. Of course, your joystick aileron and elevator controls still operate.

 

The Saitek X52 Flight Control System has a "lock" that prevents the twist function of the joystick from operating...your rudder function is still there, but you cannot physically twist the stick...it's locked.

[rjw 48]

Just responding to the following.

I just installed Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Padals, disabled ailerons, and elevator in for this device in "Mine" file. Also disabled rudder on "MS Force Feedback 2" joystick in "Mine" file.

 

I now noticed that when flying straight and level, if I let go of the joystick and apply left rudder the aircraft turns and banks left instead of doing a flat turn left. Likewise right rudder results in the same effect.

 

How do I stop the banking effect without having to apply joystick ailerons? I can't seem to achieve a flat turn!

 

Look forward to some help with this if anyone has the answer.

 

Best Regards;

 

 

Lou,

 

I installed OFF and got the good oil on removing the toe brake function. Here's what you will need to do...

 

Start a QC on the ground. Check that indeed your left toe brake operates the ailerons and your right toe brake operates the elevator. If they do...

 

Escape

Controls

Joystick Type - Select "Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals"

Event Category - Select "Axis Commands"

 

It should show

 

Event.................Control

 

Aileron Axis.........Axis X................Delete Assignment

Elevator Axis.......Axis Y................Delete Assignment

Rudder Axis.........Axis Rudder.........Leave this one there

 

Save Configuration as... Type in "Mine" (without the quotation marks)

 

OK

 

Then escape to return you to your aircraft on the ground...check your ailerons operate, check your rudder operates, and that your toe brakes DON'T operate elevators or ailerons.

 

Done!

 

Enjoy your new rudders mate.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

rjw wrote:

I now noticed that when flying straight and level, if I let go of the joystick and apply left rudder the aircraft turns and banks left instead of doing a flat turn left. Likewise right rudder results in the same effect.

 

 

What plane are you flying when you noticed this? If you are flying a craft with any wing dihedral at all you will start to bank slightly shortly after applying rudder input. When you give left rudder for example the right wing tip moves forward as the left wingtip moves rearward which results in more lift in the right wing than the left, and thus you start to bank left. This is how two-axis aircraft fly all the time. If you are trying to achieve a true "flat" turn you may have to give a bit of aileron to counteract the described action. Also, if you are flying a rotary-engined craft you have the effects of precession to deal with as well.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[rjw 48]

Thanks for the analysis. I was flying the DR1 as a test case. I noticed that I could stop the banking effect by applying ailerons but unfortunately this also had the effect of slowing down the flat turn and ultimately causing an extremely wide turning ratio when in fact I was trying to achieve a snap flat turn. Is this beyond the capability of the sim? I understand that the DR1 was capable of such a manouver.

 

Regards;

 

 

rjw wrote:

 

 

What plane are you flying when you noticed this? If you are flying a craft with any wing dihedral at all you will start to bank slightly shortly after applying rudder input. When you give left rudder for example the right wing tip moves forward as the left wingtip moves rearward which results in more lift in the right wing than the left, and thus you start to bank left. This is how two-axis aircraft fly all the time. If you are trying to achieve a true "flat" turn you may have to give a bit of aileron to counteract the described action. Also, if you are flying a rotary-engined craft you have the effects of precession to deal with as well.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[RAF_Louvert 101]

rjw, along with the Camel the DR1 is the twitchiest plane to fly in OFF. Also, since any plane will want to bank when you give it rudder input, trying it with an inherently unstable one only compounds the issue. I had mentioned dihedral in my earlier post as that seems to also make the bank more pronounced with rudder input, (at least from what I've noticed in OFF). However the DR1, despite it's flat wings, is just so quick to react that it's going to want to bank no matter what when you twist it. Here is a brief video I just put together showing the amount of twist I can get out of the bird, (BTW, it seemed apropos to use Voss' kite for this little exercise):

 

DR1 Twist

 

As you can see, about 40 degrees with full left rudder is the most managed, and around 35 degrees with full right rudder. Also, you will need about three times as much aileron input going left as you need going right due to that rotary engine.

 

Hope this is of some help.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Olham 164]

Though I have SAITEK pedals, I don't use them yet. I tried them, but found they react too immediate and strong.

I found it hard to do subtle rudder moves, although I tightened the big turn knob to the most.

 

I have even thought of fixing strong rubber band to the sliders, to make them react a bit tougher.

Does anyone know a solution for that?

[Creaghorn 10]

Thanks for the analysis. I was flying the DR1 as a test case. I noticed that I could stop the banking effect by applying ailerons but unfortunately this also had the effect of slowing down the flat turn and ultimately causing an extremely wide turning ratio when in fact I was trying to achieve a snap flat turn. Is this beyond the capability of the sim? I understand that the DR1 was capable of such a manouver.

 

Regards;

 

 

 

 

 

hi,

as long as i know the FM of the dr1 in BHAH is not capable to perform such a manouver completely. but on the other hand, this manouver is a masterpiece of pilotskill, so if voss did it, it doesn't mean everybody had the skill to perform it. it's not simply you apply rudder and then it snaps around. there are many factors you have to do at the same time at once. maybe it is even possible in this sim and just nobody had the skill yet to perform it, yet properly. so personally i don't mind if doesn't work 100% because i doubt i would be a pilot who would know how to perform it

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Olham wrote:

Though I have SAITEK pedals, I don't use them yet. I tried them, but found they react too immediate and strong.

I found it hard to do subtle rudder moves, although I tightened the big turn knob to the most.

 

I have mine dialed in and they are beautiful Olham. I have so much more control with the rudders now than I ever had with the twist stick. I was purposely snapping the DR1 rudder in the video to show how much it would immediately twist on the vertical axis. But I can slide the rudder so slow and smooth with those pedals if I choose to, it's just a treat. You should take some time and get acquainted with your own Saiteks. You would learn to love them and what they allow you to do with your kite.

 

Creaghorn, you may be right that it's possible to duplicate the supposed move that Voss is credited with in his Fokker. However, I have tried it myself every way I can think of and I can't get past a 45 degree twist with my DR1, which is still a whole lot in a dogfight.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Creaghorn 10]

Though I have SAITEK pedals, I don't use them yet. I tried them, but found they react too immediate and strong.

I found it hard to do subtle rudder moves, although I tightened the big turn knob to the most.

 

I have even thought of fixing strong rubber band to the sliders, to make them react a bit tougher.

Does anyone know a solution for that?

 

 

i don't have a solution for your problem. maybe you can put a kind of brush into the sliders, so it might then react tougher.

but from the realism POV even the slightest setting is too strong. some A/C didn't even have the dead zone in the middle. you can often see it in old footages the rudder is always kind of shaking or often you can see the rudder dancing around like a fishtail because the pilot is searching for the middle.

[Olham 164]

The "flat turn" of the Dr.1 cannot be simulated in OFF. That is due to the type of flight simulation model,

that was chosen for CFS3. Gremlin explained it better some time ago, but I forgot the details.

 

You can get closer to that turn by lowering the nose below horizon, but then it's not flat anymore.

Still though, I had made a successful fight against 5 S.E.5a some time ago. The Dr.1 is for me the most

impressive turnfighter of all. As an instable plane, it can do almost anything you want to perform,

except good speed.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Yuppers, the DR1 is a hoot to fly Olham. I refer to it as my "German Camel".

 

.

[rjw 48]

Thanks Olham and others;

 

I really loved the video you cut Olham as an aid for me. I haven't yet figured out how to do a vid capture during the game. I need to look into this as it is really an asset is assessing manouvers. I would appreciate any directions on achieving this.

 

Your vid also confirms what I have been experiencing myself. I do have to apply ailerons to maintain the 30-40 degree angle. I also noted that you stated: "The "flat turn" of the Dr.1 cannot be simulated in OFF. That is due to the type of flight simulation model,

that was chosen for CFS3. Gremlin explained it better some time ago, but I forgot the details." That in itself puts my issue to bed. It's too bad as it would have been fun to try to achieve the manouver had the capability been there. Oh well, maybe in a later mod release (I hope).

 

Thanks again for all the assistance folks;

 

 

Olham wrote:

 

I have mine dialed in and they are beautiful Olham. I have so much more control with the rudders now than I ever had with the twist stick. I was purposely snapping the DR1 rudder in the video to show how much it would immediately twist on the vertical axis. But I can slide the rudder so slow and smooth with those pedals if I choose to, it's just a treat. You should take some time and get acquainted with your own Saiteks. You would learn to love them and what they allow you to do with your kite.

 

Creaghorn, you may be right that it's possible to duplicate the supposed move that Voss is credited with in his Fokker. However, I have tried it myself every way I can think of and I can't get past a 45 degree twist with my DR1, which is still a whole lot in a dogfight.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Olham 164]

Not me - Lou made a video.

[rjw 48]

Thanks for the great Vid capture. Sure would like to know how to do that.

The vid was very instructional and the explanation of the limitations of the flight model explains away my problem.

Thanks again for everything. I now know my pedals are fine.

 

 

rjw, along with the Camel the DR1 is the twitchiest plane to fly in OFF. Also, since any plane will want to bank when you give it rudder input, trying it with an inherently unstable one only compounds the issue. I had mentioned dihedral in my earlier post as that seems to also make the bank more pronounced with rudder input, (at least from what I've noticed in OFF). However the DR1, despite it's flat wings, is just so quick to react that it's going to want to bank no matter what when you twist it. Here is a brief video I just put together showing the amount of twist I can get out of the bird, (BTW, it seemed apropos to use Voss' kite for this little exercise):

 

DR1 Twist

 

As you can see, about 40 degrees with full left rudder is the most managed, and around 35 degrees with full right rudder. Also, you will need about three times as much aileron input going left as you need going right due to that rotary engine.

 

Hope this is of some help.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou