Are you a hunter or a shooter ?

[Olham 164]

Creaghorn brought up that devision between the "hunter" and the "shooter".

When I understand him right, they are like this:

 

A) The Hunter - he will carefully check everything around for a long time, before he would decide if to attack.

Then he would get himself into an advanced position, before he would engage his victim. He would rather

just shoot down one opponent per flight - if at all. But that full "state of the art". His kill tally would grow

very slowly, but lots of kills are not his passion - it's the hunt itself.

 

B) The Shooter - he will get into situations rather than choosing them. He wouldn't think long about an engagement.

After a short decision, he takes on fights, or runs away. But mostly he fights, and it's often a furball he ends in.

Or he doesn't end in it, and comes home with several kills. He often looses his wingmen, so he can only claim a

smaller part of the actual kills, but as long as he survives, his kill tally is growing quick.

 

This is not meant for boasting; and I would beg you to answer and click here only, when you have NOT chosen

Unlimited Ammo and Unlimited Fuel.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Olham

[Bullethead 12]

I am a "hunter" by temperment, preference, and long experience. This comes from MANY years in MMOFS games flying FW190s, P51s, and other such WW2 E-fighters.

 

However, this poll is about OFF, so I put myself down as a "shooter". This is because I fly mostly for the Brits in Pups and Fees. As such, I only rarely get to pick my fights and study the situation before engaging. Instead, I usually find myself vastly outnumbered by faster enemies attacking from high above me. Then it's just sauve qui peut and Devil take the hindmost.

[Waldemar Kurtz 1]

I'm more prone to being a shooter-- but I always like to dictate the terms of combat as much as possible. it's not unusual for me to grab a Roland C.II or DFW C.V and then single-handedly attack flights of 6 or more Sopwith Strutters and FE2bs over German lines. the main reason I don't identify with being a 'shooter' is that I always try to have a way out of the situation if I can help it. I often spend 10 minutes or more stalking a single enemy machine. usually attacking from blind spots.

 

on average, when I engage the enemy, I get around one-to-three confirmed kills. so I picked "two". I didn't count missions where no enemy activity is encountered or combat was not engaged-- because that doesn't really reflect the situation properly. if I included how many victories I get per sortie--well, then it would be less than one per mission. but if I consider only those "combat missions" as the frame of reference than "two" is the average.

 

since I like to fly two-seater careers a lot I generally avoid combat except for all but the most favorable circumstances... or when I've got absolutely no choice!

 

if I'm flying a DFW C.V and I get bounced by 8 Sopwith Triplanes and Nieuoprt 17s there's no way in hell I'm getting out of there without a fight!

[Duce Lewis 3]

Tough question; I guess I see myself as a Shooter who's turning into a Hunter

BHH is changing me, can't survive long as a Shooter over the lines

But on my own turf I'm still the Shooter

[Hasse Wind 46]

It depends on the plane I'm currently flying. In a Spad or a Pfalz you can't be a shooter, at least I don't know how to do it properly and live to fight another day. But give me a Nupe or a Dr.I and I'll eagerly attack almost everything that moves (which usually ends my career quite prematurely!). But even in a turn fighter I've never shot down 6-9 planes per mission as some people seem to be doing, I'm not THAT reckless! And with full realism, no TAC and no labels it's much harder to shoot down anybody. :yes:

 

I guess it tells something about the usefulness of each tactic on the long run that all my longest living pilots have been careful tacticians. My MFJ I pilot is now approaching the 30 hour mark, and he has just 9 confirmed kills.

[Olham 164]

As a German pilot, I am a shooter. We are mostly over own ground, and I take risks, and take on almost

every enemy flight. My best living pilot - DiD/TWL - has 12 confirmed victories.

I find it hard to act as a hunter, cause I am often just jumped upon by numerous enemy craft. And as I

want to save my wingmen, I enter the furball with not much hesitation.

 

But as an Entente pilot, crossing the lines most of the time, I will try a hunter way of fighting with my new

S.E.5a pilot (if the Germans let me, and don't also jump on us in huge numbers).

 

Could a typicall "hunter" (Creaghorn!) please explain to me, how he avoids that "getting jumped at"?

[Hasse Wind 46]

Olham, try flying as high as possible. The lower you fly, the more easier it's for each enemy and his cousin's friend to find you and attack you. At least I've noticed staying high makes it easier to control the situation, and is practically the only way to go in some planes, particularly the Pfalz.

 

There's a setting in the workshop that let's you adjust how high your flight tries to stay even when using warp. My tactic is to use warp until I can't do it anymore because of enemy activity, and then fly higher if I'm not already.

[Olham 164]

My goodness - you're right, Hasse Wind! I had never changed the setting for "player altitude"!

It was on 3.000 feet - I have raised it now to 10.000 feet. Hope that will help!

[Creaghorn 10]

As a German pilot, I am a shooter. We are mostly over own ground, and I take risks, and take on almost

every enemy flight. My best living pilot - DiD/TWL - has 12 confirmed victories.

I find it hard to act as a hunter, cause I am often just jumped upon by numerous enemy craft. And as I

want to save my wingmen, I enter the furball with not much hesitation.

 

But as an Entente pilot, crossing the lines most of the time, I will try a hunter way of fighting with my new

S.E.5a pilot (if the Germans let me, and don't also jump on us in huge numbers).

 

Could a typicall "hunter" (Creaghorn!) please explain to me, how he avoids that "getting jumped at"?

 

what's most important IMHO (there is no recipe of course and i don't feel to be good enough for teaching, i'm only telling what works for me) is to see the enemy formation in time and not getting surprised. if you get surprised the momentum is on their side. before you can react at least one of your wing, maybe even yourself are shot down. if you see them in time or you can surprise them, you can decide when to hit attack and have many more options. like in sports. momentum is everything. there is always one side wich attacks and one wich defends. i'm trying to be the attacker (as a formation a mean)

i usually try to stay above the fight as good as i can. try to catch some time to let the fight develop into one on one fights. if one had picked me as opponent i try to see him in time and try to do the same. if i see nobody had chosen me as a target, i try to get a good overview of everything and decide whom i should help out. if it happens that i get jumped by more than one or if the one dances me out, i try to evade him as long as i can to wether outturn him, or to wait for my wing to help me out.

for me following factors are most important

 

- your pilot is alive and therefor he can die, no selected pilot in a sim.

- having the momentum leaves you many more decisions. as soon as you feel the momentum slipping away, run away.

- time. time means you can better decide what to do. time means your wing can help you out better and you can help them better.

- i never jump into a fight where my wing has the upperhand. i let the wing doing their job and only help out if necessary. they deserve to have the kill as much as you do. they have helped me out so often when i was in trouble. i don't try to win the war alone.

- i'm not target fixated. if i chase somebody, as soon as i see on my six anything else then a wingman, i watch carefully what he is doing. only when i'm sure he's not turning in my direction or is distracted, i look again for my opponent. beeing fixated too much gives the others the opportunity to jump on you. the time plays against you. you're giving the wingmen of your opponent the possibility to train the guns on you, while you are busy chasing the guy. that must never happen. i think that's the main problem among sim-pilots, beeing too fixated, not having the sense of giving a potential kill away for the sake of staying alive.

 

this works for me mostly to not get jumped at by more than one enemy. sometimes it happens of course, but that only means i have missed the time where momentum has slipped away.

 

i hope there was something little helpful

[Dutch_P47M 9]

I always follow the leader and try to finish my job in surviving myself and my flight members. This means I will shoot on everything which could be a treat for us. But alone I'm a hunter only fight in advance. Thats what I like in RB, flying the 1915 planes means you have to use tactics and flying skills first then shooting.

[Creaghorn 10]

My goodness - you're right, Hasse Wind! I had never changed the setting for "player altitude"!

It was on 3.000 feet - I have raised it now to 10.000 feet. Hope that will help!

 

you should raise it to the highest, and also your own flight density to high, so your flight will always be somewhere between 2000 and 6000, sometimes almost 7000 meters, which is quite historically correct. and with flight density high you'll always have between 4 and 15 pilots in your sortie, which is also quite correct.

[SirMike1983 3]

I stay out of the fight unless I'm confident. It depends on the planes, the altitude, weather, etc. When the fight begins my tactic is to get inhumanly close up behind enemy aircraft and open fire.

[Duce Lewis 3]

Part of the immersive factor is the duty to the mission and my comrades

Not much of a factor behind our lines as missions are defensive

Any may you contact them and drive them off is OK

 

But on an escort mission in enemy territory other factors come into play

I turn on my hunter mode and stay high and tight over the bombers

Don't seek any action at all, as duty say's protect the bombers

 

But if the AI Bombers turn and fly directly at the HA or other HA appear above

Duty requires me to stay put and weather the storm ...that's the fighter's job

No choice but to be a Shooter

 

Another example is when a wingie gets in trouble

If he's surrounded by 6 HA, I may say it's too much and suicidal

But if I spot one at the bottom of the DF with 1 or 2 on his tail

I may sacrifice precious altitude to rescue him

 

I really get attached to the baggers, especialy my wingmate

As their leader, it's my duty to do my best to accomplish the mission and bring them back

Using Hunter or Shooter mode where required

[Hasse Wind 46]

you should raise it to the highest, and also your own flight density to high, so your flight will always be somewhere between 2000 and 6000, sometimes almost 7000 meters, which is quite historically correct. and with flight density high you'll always have between 4 and 15 pilots in your sortie, which is also quite correct.

 

I can recommend this to all players who want their pilots to stay alive as long as possible. Having enough altitude is often the most deciding factor in air combat in OFF.

[HomeBoy 1]

I am a shooter. I wish I was a hunter. I always seem to find myself in a mess of my own choosing. After it's over with I kick myself for not flying smarter. I have the utmost respect for the hunter who always works the advantages and is in control at all times of his situation.

 

This is a great thread. Thanks Olham for putting this up.

 

You guys are amazing! I consider it a privilege to be around such students of the art (I know that's a bit sappy but I really do mean that!) :blush2:

 

-hb

[Canvas Wings 1]

I'm a hunter by inclination, but without TrackIR, and no TAC/or TAC always at 1mile, I usually find myself the quarry instead - so I'm a shooter by default.

 

I had to guess at the accuarcy figure - I still haven't managed to find out where you can get that statistic from..

[Olham 164]

Creaghorn, you must be a patient man. I wish I was too.

But thanks for your advice about settings. I always fly my sorties with two or three wingmen so far.

I'll try and change that; also the altitude.

 

Homeboy, nothing wrong with the shooter, as long as he takes care enough, for himself as for the wingmen.

I will never be the hunter. I will do my kills as quick, hard and short timed as possible, and then return home.

I am flying BHaH since February now, and only during the last month, I got to use TrackIR almost like a padlock

view; my flying became better, and my patience with everything. You will see - some day that desperate chase

for instant success will fade, and you will be a veteran (with moss on his back - Lol!!)

[Fliegenhund 0]

I am a hunter, but sometimes I definitely get lured into being a shooter. I think in WW1 era planes you need to be extremely careful before you give up a height advantage. If you dive down and get into a turning fight even with even numbers, you can find yourself quickly outnumbered and unable to climb away. That leaves you way out on a limb.

[Hellshade 110]

I wish I was a hunter.

I try to be shooter.

Usually within a few missions I'm just a victim.

 

None the less, I have one hell of a time in the air and that's really what it's all about.

 

Hellshade

[Olham 164]

Did my first two "Full-DiD" missions today, with "player flight density" set to high.

I can only recommend that. Had 5 wingmen on each flight, and operated in "Creaghorn-style":

I ordered "attack", and then helped those, who needed help. Worked perfectly fine!

Thanks, Creaghorn. And for those pilots who are allowed to warp, I have put max. alt. to 18.000

That should be a different story now!

[Creaghorn 10]

now you'll have the most realistic and historical correct experience, BHAH can offer, olham. wondering why such little, but most important things like this got forgotten, jesus.

now you'll have squads in realistic numbers. sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes up to 16 aircraft in one sortie. (now imagine to be in a JG which really cooperates like a JG. p4?).

usually one flight will be higher at about 4-6k meters, and one lower at about 2-4k meters. you'll experience things now how it happened very often in real.

one flight gets jumped at, you see it and attack them from above (or vice versa). suddenly in the dogfight you get jumped at from maybe flight 2 of the enemies. this is how the big dogfights occured and then it gets seperated into smaller dogfights. everywhere you look somewhere you can see somebody fight for his life, yourself too. friends and enemies sandwiched, chasing each other...

can't believe you didn't see this sight yet. listen to the interviews in the credit section. one of them (3rd or 4th i think) describes really good what you are from now on going to see more often.

now you can have fun :yes:

[Olham 164]

Oh yes, I had a totally different experience now!

I had so far mostly made my sorties with 2 - 4 wingmen. Most opponent flights had numbers of 6 - 12 craft,

which where often joined by another flight of 4 - 6 fighters. I mostly only made it alive alone, with no one

to witness my kills.

Now, yesterday, a real air battle unfolded. Flight one with 6 craft got attacked by 9 or 10 S.E.5a, and we joined

into the fight with our 6 craft, to help. All action soon took place down at the deck, but I remained higher up with

my personal wingman, and managed to help several pilots out. When we had finished up the S.E.5s, there were

still three pilots from flight 1, and 4 of us, which was a refreshing experience!

 

I always knew, I could raise the player flight density, but had thought, that the enemy flights would again double that.

That doesn't seem to be the case.

[Creaghorn 10]

Oh yes, I had a totally different experience now!

I had so far mostly made my sorties with 2 - 4 wingmen. Most opponent flights had numbers of 6 - 12 craft,

which where often joined by another flight of 4 - 6 fighters. I mostly only made it alive alone, with no one

to witness my kills.

Now, yesterday, a real air battle unfolded. Flight one with 6 craft got attacked by 9 or 10 S.E.5a, and we joined

into the fight with our 6 craft, to help. All action soon took place down at the deck, but I remained higher up with

my personal wingman, and managed to help several pilots out. When we had finished up the S.E.5s, there were

still three pilots from flight 1, and 4 of us, which was a refreshing experience!

 

I always knew, I could raise the player flight density, but had thought, that the enemy flights would again double that.

That doesn't seem to be the case.

 

as a german pilot you'll be outnumbered often enough. quality against quantity. but it won't be so ridiculously like 3 agains 16 but more historically correct.

[Olham 164]

I've flown several missions now with a larger flight, and it feels quite impressive.

But also more like "kindergarten" - I must always check and care for them.

In air combat, it's great - the opponent has more craft to concetrate on; and also

more dangerous, as now the word "furball" really seems to fit.

[zoomzoom 2]

Excellent Insight Creaghorn, I must try this High Density setting for myself...sounds fabulous. I just jacked mine up to medium last week on a lark, and was pleased, but this sounds even better!

 

A question: Do those here think its more accurate to fly at the "middle altitude" setting (10k) or the high...18000, which seems a bit unusual for regular sorties. I would think keeping it at 10k mostly, with some occaisional 18k missions, (switching back and forth) would be the most historically accurate. Any opinions?

 

And finally....I'm a Hunter at heart, and usually pursue that route, but as others mention here, "all plans change with first contact with the enemy", and I think that is why (and only one of many reasons why) OFF is so realistic, because that is actually real-life accurate. Usually my hunting plans work (as planned) when I'm left to my own devices, but, when you have a mission with set paramaters for success, you often change your normal behaviour to accomodate it, and this is where you can get pulled into some non-Hunter like suprise-activity. Also, when you are an Unter-Offizier, you follow your squad leader..(at least I do to make things more realistic, you aren't gonna go traipsing off from your squad willy nilly when you are a plebe....unless you wanna get your arse handed to you when you land!!) So often in these cases, and until I have sufficient rank to make my own decisions, I will be pulled into a less than sane, very Un-Hunter like situation. I'm still a Hunter, I'm just dealing with the temporary cards dealt me until I get to make the decisions! :yes:

 

ZZ.

 

For instance: was in a flight of 4 Albatros DIII's last night as a newby Gerfrieter, last in the patrol (tail end charlie if you will) and watched in horror as my squad leader, on my first flight no-less, dove willy nilly into a a squad of Spads beneath us that outnumberd us two-to one! Rash Fool!! He could have climbed away easily and been smart. Instead, all my wingys were either shot down or dissapeared, and after downing one of these opponents, I was forced to terrain hop with three more of these bastards on my tail giving me occaisional lead infusions all the way back to a freindly strip. When I get promoted, things will be different!! How many times do you think THAT was said in real life?