BHAH torrent!

[Creaghorn 10]

just typed in google over flanders fields. right on the first lines there is a link for Over flanders fields torrent. just took a look into it to see what it is, and it shows (after a viruswarnig first) several download servers for BHAH and about 9000 downloads shown beside each link.

 

this sort of stuff has to be removed!!!!!!

 

[+Winder 32]

just typed in google over flanders fields. right on the first lines there is a link for Over flanders fields torrent. just took a look into it to see what it is, and it shows (after a viruswarnig first) several download servers for BHAH and about 9000 downloads shown beside each link.

 

this sort of stuff has to be removed!!!!!!

 

 

Nothing can be done - this is why ROF is as it is and I can fully understand it...they had the guts to make it fully online verified - it has side effects but guarantees a bit more volume of sales.

 

 

WM

[SGCSG1 0]

Nothing can be done - this is why ROF is as it is and I can fully understand it...they had the guts to make it fully online verified - it has side effects but guarantees a bit more volume of sales.

 

 

WM

 

 

I completely disagree with you here. I HAVE NOT and WILL NOT buy ROF, or any game that requires constant internet authentication, or has limited installs. The people who download stuff from torrents (you, know, people who STEAL STUFF) would not necessarily be customers if they could not download it.

 

But there are a lot of people like me, who WOULD buy something if the DRM wasn't so intrusive.

 

So, no, IMHO, horsesh*t DRM does NOT guarantee more sales. Quite the reverse. Games that make a big deal out of not having bad DRM do VERY WELL in sales. Be good to your customers instead of treating them like thieves and screwing with their PC's - that's the way to 'guarantee a bit more volume of sales'.

 

There are more PC games I'd like to play than I have time for. So I can pick and choose where I put my money. I choose to support companies that treat their customers well, and not companies that think that screwing their customers is the best way to get more customers. And yes, starforce is screwing your customers. I spent TWO DAYS debugging and rebuilding my PC because of that junk. Limited installs, constant online verification for single-player games....FORGET IT. ROF has a ROTTEN BUSINESS MODEL.

[Fliegenhund 0]

These bastards are what is killing the PC gaming industry, and apparently consoles now too. Winder has it right, as much as people are upset by companies using authentication when using the product, it is a direct result of this.

[Silverbolt 104]

Sure its sad, but Don't be foolish.

 

When you type something on google(anything) some sites appear this typo as it was really a torrent or something like that added with words ''full'', ''complete''..but those are nothing than virus,spywares and malwares,most of them came with absurd size, such as 300mb/600mb when i guess the OFF have more than it. with weird sequels such as ''OFF 4 5 or 6''

for example, i was looking for an free antivirus called ''Avast'' i've found ''Avast full complete 2009'' with 600mb(when it barely hits the 30mb)

 

i think most of people who buy such of payware stuff is aware of what can happen if you put it on there, and it also is incentivating the independent gamming industry buying this stuff Buying insted of upload or download illegaly.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Silverbolt

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Pay for what you get, and get what you pay for. I would trust a torrent version of anything about as far as I could comfortably spit a rat, (to quote Ford Prefect).

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[+Winder 32]

I completely disagree with you here. I HAVE NOT and WILL NOT buy ROF, or any game that requires constant internet authentication, or has limited installs. The people who download stuff from torrents (you, know, people who STEAL STUFF) would not necessarily be customers if they could not download it.

 

But there are a lot of people like me, who WOULD buy something if the DRM wasn't so intrusive.

 

So, no, IMHO, horsesh*t DRM does NOT guarantee more sales. Quite the reverse. Games that make a big deal out of not having bad DRM do VERY WELL in sales. Be good to your customers instead of treating them like thieves and screwing with their PC's - that's the way to 'guarantee a bit more volume of sales'.

 

There are more PC games I'd like to play than I have time for. So I can pick and choose where I put my money. I choose to support companies that treat their customers well, and not companies that think that screwing their customers is the best way to get more customers. And yes, starforce is screwing your customers. I spent TWO DAYS debugging and rebuilding my PC because of that junk. Limited installs, constant online verification for single-player games....FORGET IT. ROF has a ROTTEN BUSINESS MODEL.

 

 

The problem is that they have 30 odd people to pay and they need the sales - as I say it took guts to do what they did and I suspect we will see more of it because basically many (too many) would rather simply get it for free....good business? bad business?

Well flight sims are bad business anyway so why not try and get some good out of it?

 

Its only rotten from a user whose perspective is skewed towards feeling like a thief and then possibly acting like one.

 

The downsides are obvious and of course there are many ways to achieve the end result - ROF have been bold and as a user of ROF I have already run into connection/update issues - ce la vie.

 

The flight sim business is marginal and software piracy makes it even more marginal - unlike many FPS games.

 

But here I am looking at it from a Devs POV and when I see how much of our work is pirated then the DRM all makes sense....

Protect what is rightfully yours - and there are two viewpoints and they will always differ.

 

OBD like so many other niche market companies is being robbed, so try to imagine how that feels..... hard?

 

WM

[Fliegenhund 0]

It can be related to any business where someone busts their butt to make a finished product. Imagine putting your expertise and passion into building something for someone and after months, maybe years of your time, they get to pick it up and walk away and you get nothing. One cannot blame a software company for implementing a feature to protect what they made whether it is buggy or not.

 

I shudder to think how much money companies have lost (OBD software?) to these people literally stealing a product because they are too cheap and unethical to pay for something someone else has crafted. I hope the feds can crack down on this software piracy, it will only get worse.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Winder, I don't disagree with you at all in terms of wanting to prevent this sort of piracy, but I also understand the hassle to the consumer of a system's like RoF's. That being said, there must be ways that these bootleg copies could be minimized. When the original disc is produced for sale to the end user can it be password protected so that it can't be launched, (or copied), without the required password provided by OFF? If so that would at least give you a trail to who's bootleg copy is being offered in a torrent or other download by tracing the specific password back to who originally purchased the disc. Of course this is likely far too simplistic and therefore ineffective against all the creative and clever a**holes of the world who have nothing better to do than to steal the hard work of others.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Fortiesboy 3]

The problem is that they have 30 odd people to pay and they need the sales - as I say it took guts to do what they did and I suspect we will see more of it because basically many (too many) would rather simply get it for free....good business? bad business?

Well flight sims are bad business anyway so why not try and get some good out of it?

 

Its only rotten from a user whose perspective is skewed towards feeling like a thief and then possibly acting like one.

 

The downsides are obvious and of course there are many ways to achieve the end result - ROF have been bold and as a user of ROF I have already run into connection/update issues - ce la vie.

 

The flight sim business is marginal and software piracy makes it even more marginal - unlike many FPS games.

 

But here I am looking at it from a Devs POV and when I see how much of our work is pirated then the DRM all makes sense....

Protect what is rightfully yours - and there are two viewpoints and they will always differ.

 

OBD like so many other niche market companies is being robbed, so try to imagine how that feels..... hard?

 

WM

 

Winder- i do sympathize with your feelings of what it must be like for your creation to be pirated, but I do think that SCGSG1 is right on this.

 

I think that the only people who get OFF this pirating way are people who would NOT have bought OFF anyway. They are the sort who rarely buy any game, have no abiding interest in any particular sort of flight sim, but they see a game for free and it's - lets have that and see what it is.

 

I know that it can't be "proved " , one way or another, but how many users of this forum, the real users of OFF, do you think might have obtained their sim this way?

Reckon I only need to use one hand here! -lol

 

The principle is galling, i know, but I'd bet good money that the reality is that not many sales are lost through piracy- Sure, there are many downloads, but, I repeat, not many SALES are lost.

 

ROF cannot quantify how many sales they have lost through their online requirement, but they can get an idea, - because, unlike pirates, guys like SCGSG1 and myself are quite willing to post up that we will not buy their product merely because of the online- to- play requirement.

 

True flight sim enthusiasts will buy the product. They don't wait around in the (possibly vain ) hope that it will be available from pirates.

 

The reason sales are small is that it is a niche, though passionate, hobby- unlike eating food- :biggrin:lol

[+Winder 32]

Winder- i do sympathize with your feelings of what it must be like for your creation to be pirated, but I do think that SCGSG1 is right on this.

 

I think that the only people who get OFF this pirating way are people who would NOT have bought OFF anyway. They are the sort who rarely buy any game, have no abiding interest in any particular sort of flight sim, but they see a game for free and it's - lets have that and see what it is.

 

I know that it can't be "proved " , one way or another, but how many users of this forum, the real users of OFF, do you think might have obtained their sim this way?

Reckon I only need to use one hand here! -lol

 

The principle is galling, i know, but I'd bet good money that the reality is that not many sales are lost through piracy- Sure, there are many downloads, but, I repeat, not many SALES are lost.

 

ROF cannot quantify how many sales they have lost through their online requirement, but they can get an idea, - because, unlike pirates, guys like SCGSG1 and myself are quite willing to post up that we will not buy their product merely because of the online- to- play requirement.

 

True flight sim enthusiasts will buy the product. They don't wait around in the (possibly vain ) hope that it will be available from pirates.

 

The reason sales are small is that it is a niche, though passionate, hobby- unlike eating food- :biggrin:lol

 

Its a very complex but interesting topic - I am not saying ROF have it right - as I say it takes guts and its a bold move.

OFF has it wrong? we have no DRM.

 

Somewhere in between is the right level and trust me there is more coming as we move this industry along...

 

I cannot agree with the 'would not have bought ROF/OFF anyway' - I believe that a sale is a sale no matter who the end user is or his requirement or his needs....

And if the only recourse is to buy it then many would then cough up.... or not.....even if they believe that piratring a game 'just to try it out' is fine (buy it later? yeah right)

 

It would be nice to believe what you say but alas its not like that at all - niche markets lose footholds because of this 'disease'.

And it would be nice to believe that only poorer lower income users pirate the software - again not true...

 

Solution? I have none we went no DRM - we are losing sales and we ignore it - nothing to be done.

 

Watch the DRM space many issues are being looked at in many ways it will get worse and you will end up either without ...or pay... or be tracked.... yep even in cyberspace.

 

We make our own destinies.

 

HTH

 

WM

[Creaghorn 10]

i own EA's MVP baseball 2005. a large community and dev's are constantly releasing new patches and addons, new stadiums, players, cyber faces, stats, uniforms, rosters and so on. every season is like a brand new game, all with the core of the 2005 game. but they make it somehow it only works with an original game. patching with cracked or downloaded versions simply crash. i would like to know what they did. i don't think the original version can be protected, but every patch is modified it only works with the original.

 

so maybe the add ons and patches of BHAH can be protected. let them bastards have the core release version and keep them standing on the same spot. but the large improvements and addons should not work. maybe this can be made here somehow.

[Rickitycrate 10]

i own EA's MVP baseball 2005. a large community and dev's are constantly releasing new patches and addons, new stadiums, players, cyber faces, stats, uniforms, rosters and so on. every season is like a brand new game, all with the core of the 2005 game. but they make it somehow it only works with an original game. patching with cracked or downloaded versions simply crash. i would like to know what they did. i don't think the original version can be protected, but every patch is modified it only works with the original.

 

so maybe the add ons and patches of BHAH can be protected. let them bastards have the core release version and keep them standing on the same spot. but the large improvements and addons should not work. maybe this can be made here somehow.

 

I do think this is the plan for addon planes. Maybe, if that is so, the non-payers will purchase so they can get the additional planes?

[JimAttrill 24]

I must admit that I hate paying money to a certain software company that is making billions out of their overpriced operating systems and other stuff. Yes, I have 4 pcs running real volume license copies. They don't need the money and won't miss it. But I did buy OFF because I think the developers deserve the money and I do the same for other small outfits which sell really good stuff. But it might be a good idea to digitally 'sign' each legal copy sold, and only allow one update per copy or something like that. I'm not sure exactly how it is done, and IMHO all copy protection systems have not really worked. I do remember one software package that expected you to insert a disk every so often. I found out that the disk had a real hardware error on it and was not copiable. Well, you could copy it but it would not work as a verified copy. Just for a laugh I tried to write a TSR to trap the codes and got close to it. I was teaching myself assembler at the time and had some fun with this. (I had bought the software btw). That copy protection DID work. So there are ways of doing these things.

 

Best of luck to the developers and may the pirates be forced to fly Bristol Scouts till the end of time

[Flyby PC 23]

First off, I absolutely do not condone piracy, but can I make a small but important distinction in 'torrenting'? Torrenting is just a method of file sharing big files to a large number of people, very fast. Torrenting is not the act of piracy, - piracy is the 'cracking' of software, and its illegal, as is the subsequent distribution of pirate software.

 

If you wrote and encrypted legit software, and users had to pay for the appropriate decryption key, (small key - minimal bandwidth for your server) you could distribute a legitimate software product to a large number of people, very efficiently. Torrenting would distibute the mass volume of your 'inert' product, but you'd retain control of your software through the encrypted activation code unique to each licensed copy.

 

To distribute pirate software, you first need to have a cracked version of the software, and that's where the problem starts - with the people hacking the software.

 

Torrenting itself is not a bad thing, but I'm as uncomfortable as the rest of you to see it's wholesale abuse for the distribution of illegal pirate software. But try to remember, the evil is the piracy, not the torrent method.

 

I know it's cold comfort, but unlike bootleg CD's, at least you know the pirate isn't making any money out of torrenting either. It's not just you, but everybody loses control of your product the moment the security is hacked. The subsequent method of distribution is largely academic.

 

If we're ever going to beat piracy, we need to focus on the right problem. For better or worse, ROF's security seems to recognise that getting hold of a hacked version of the game is a pointless exercise. Be interesting to see how they handle the payware add-ons. (Am I allowed to mention this now???).... I don't know.

[godzilla1985 0]

I can understand both views from the devs to the paying customer. What I don't like about RoF's DRM is that if for whatever reason no internet means no RoF. A person who pirated the copy could care less, but the guy/gal who actually bought it is gonna see it quite differently. I can see no good coming from a DRM like that for either side. There has to be a reasonable balance that can be reached so the dev's product has some good copy protection but not at the expense of an actual paying customer enjoyment of the product reguardless of his/her internet connection, or limited installs. All too often we take things for granted like problem free PC's or that internet connection is some God given right. I myself have been "off line" several times over the years due to just plain ol' budget constrains, but atleast I got to enjoy and play my sim's during these times. I've also had times where I had to reformat my HD several times (or replace), so I would not been very happy repurchasing something because I "used up" all my reinstalls.

 

Maybe a multi layered form of copy protection instead? Like requiring a product key, CD in drive and asking a question from the game manual that requires a correct answer like Chuck Yeagers Air Combat and a few other did? I know it's a few hoops to jump through for paying customers but I would rather do this then the alternative

[SGCSG1 0]

A short lesson in logic and bad manners:

 

Person A: "A flat tax is the only fair tax".

 

Person B: "Only thieves think a flat tax is a good idea".

 

What has happened here is Person B has indulged in what is called an 'abusive ad hominem'. It is a logical fallacy. And remarkably rude. Here, let me give you a second example, just so you know how this works:

 

Person A: " ROF has a ROTTEN BUSINESS MODEL."

 

Person B: "Its only rotten from a user whose perspective is skewed towards feeling like a thief and then possibly acting like one."

 

So, again, we see that when someone has no logical, intelligent reply to a stated position they can resort to insulting the PERSON who made the first statement, instead of attacking the statement itself.

 

Remember that...'abusive ad hominem'. You see it all the time in politics. Now you see it on this forum.

 

Pretty sad. People should be able to express their opinions without being called thieves.

[Olham 164]

This is for all you "grab-grabs", you lazy vultures, you "must-have-quick's":

 

Has it ever occured to you, why you dont feel great, when you play with games

or sims you have just stolen?

If you worked for the dollars it costs, to give them to those who thought all this

out and made all this beautiful stuff work, and put hundreds of hours into their "baby",

then you would feel right with it, then you could belong into this world, then you could

share it with a great community.

When you are too lazy to do so, and just take it, because you easily can, you're nothing -

and you will never have REAL joy with anything.

[Rickitycrate 10]

I did not read that anyone was called a thief for their opinion. A thief is a taker/user of things he/she has no right to. If you have not paid for OFF BH&H you have no right to it. I feel bad enough for not contibuting financially to the cost of this forum. I hope to remedy that soon.

[buddye 1]

Delelopers should take bold action (almost do anything possible) and take strong risk to prevent the steeling of our flight sim software.

 

It is past time for bold action even if it is not the best solution for our players.

 

IMHO, nothing cost us more than theives.

Edited July 30, 2009 by buddye

[godzilla1985 0]

Delelopers should take bold action (almost do anything possible) and take strong risk to prevent the steeling of our flight sim software.

 

It is past time for bold action even if it is not the best solution for our players.

 

IMHO, nothing cost us more than theives.

 

I would agree to a point Buddye, but what will the developers do when they have distanced themselfs so much from the customer base that he/she finally say's "enough is enough, they are asking for way too much from me now just to play a game" and just walk away from the genre or just stick with what they have already that doesn't involve intrusive DRM's or unreasonable requirements? Do we want this to turn into a "cut your nose off just to spite your face" thing? If I was a dev I would be looking high and low for something that protects my hard work but does not alienate the very customers who I need to survive, grow and prosper. I have seen these simulations come a long way in programming development and complexity and find it hard to believe a good middle ground solution is beyond reason and hope.

[Winston DoRight 3]

Is there a max number of installs you can do with ROF? I've been putting off buying it because of the fact that you have to be constantly connected to play single player, but if you can only install it "x" number of times I'll probably never buy it. I usually reinstall my OS every year or so on my game machine and a fresh install of all my sims.

[ONETINSOLDIER 2]

Just saw this thread, thought id verify this. Now, lets say hypothetically that I frequent a few torrent sites and kinda know whats out and whats not, whats real and whats , uhm, not. And as far as I would"hypothetically" know, you developer guys can breath easy.

Files: 58.19 mil • Size: 1803.08 TB , zero results for off phase 3

 

Ive seen torrents of phase 1, but it rarely has any seeders,

,,,hypothetically.

 

I believe what the original poster saw was , uhm, road apples

[FastCargo 412]

Folks,

 

You want a good, unbiased look at PC game piracy, read this article:

 

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html

 

Now, spend the time and read the WHOLE thing...it is several long and detailed pages. It clears up a lot of the misconceptions about DRM, copyright, piracy, etc. Don't fixate on any one part, take in the whole article. Very well researched, and full of references, links, and statistics.

 

FC

[markl 1]

Winder, I don't disagree with you at all in terms of wanting to prevent this sort of piracy, but I also understand the hassle to the consumer of a system's like RoF's. That being said, there must be ways that these bootleg copies could be minimized. When the original disc is produced for sale to the end user can it be password protected so that it can't be launched, (or copied), without the required password provided by OFF? If so that would at least give you a trail to who's bootleg copy is being offered in a torrent or other download by tracing the specific password back to who originally purchased the disc. Of course this is likely far too simplistic and therefore ineffective against all the creative and clever a**holes of the world who have nothing better to do than to steal the hard work of others.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

 

I agree and there is a simple way. go down the way Matrix games have gone. the serials from pirated versions get blacklisted from future patches. Since they always release half finished games they all need patches to work.

 

This method seems to work so they say. Also a quick look at many forums recently and many people will no longer purchase games with restrictive DRM. Most people seem to agree that people who pirate wopuls not buy them anyway. Some may have but the vast magority would not purchase. Look at spore, the DRM that came withthat cost them a lot of sales, including mine after my daughter asked for it, for her birthday.

 

I do not agree with piracy, but also will never purchase a game withat either needs activation or online authentication. And I know that means no more new PC games for me soom, appart from the titles from GoG.com that all come DRM free.

 

Cheers MarkL