BVR Combat Tactics

[ShrikeHawk]

Hey All,

 

Lately, I've been trying out much newer fighters than I'm used. 90% of all my sim time has been in props, so I'm not so familiar with combat tactics with an enemy I can't even see. This is BVR stuff is just killing me!

 

I've tried:

- Opening up my radar range so I can detect enemies sooner

- Firing off a sparrow or AIM-120 as soon as I have a lock

- Remembering to activate jamming if available

- Employing liberal amounts of flares and chaff

- Dodging a lot

 

Once in a while, I actually manage to survive these engagements, but not many. I've been getting kills but they're often ending in mutual destruction.

 

Questions:

-Are some tactics to use that give you even a 50% chance of survivability? These Su-27s are just murdering me!

-When launching a sparrow from an F-15 or SkyFlash from a Tornado, do you need to keep the target in the aiming reticle as with the F-4?

-Is it possible to see these missiles coming or am I just blind?

-How do you evade an enemy you can't even see?

-During these fights, I rarely have any targets on radar once maneuvering begins. How can I track the enemy with my nose going all over the place?

 

Any thoughts/suggestions appreciated.

 

Cheers!

[MigBuster]

The Sparrow and Skyflash are Semi Active radar guided missiles - you must keep the enemy jet locked up on your radar otherwise it will miss. These types of missiles are almost useless at BVR and easy to evade - and the if the enemy fires back - you have to break lock also.

 

Assess the situation - check how many blips you are fighting - use another wingmen section to engage and then attack from another angle for example

 

No you cant evade an enemy you cant see!

 

If you are close in only boresight mode is any use - you need to use eyes - or use padlock also.

 

Pah missiles - the 60s were so much better :)

[+Brain32]

-RWR is your best friend in BVR engagements, especially the TEWS in SF2 series, not only will it tell you which direction is the threat coming from, but also what it is and to some degree what is he doing(scanning, tracking etc.)

 

-once you know the direction of the threat try to position yourself at highest angle possible to it, 90deg is great for example as missile will have to turn a lot and loose energy while doing it, however AI is in great advantage here and I personally think TK should adjust BVR AI functions a bit, because they can evade missiles in a way you can only dream off and there's other stuff to check out...

 

-with above in mind you might think there's no help, but there actually is, terrain masking works flawlessly What I do is running on the deck at a razor edge of crashing into the ground and high speed then:

-pop out a bit higher wait for them to lock you up and fire missiles, hit the jammers, drop some chaff if it does not work hit the deck again, they will loose the lock, if you are persistent enough it can even happen that they spend all their BVR missiles and you have a turkey shot at them.

 

-remember rushing at them head on at the speed of heat will get you nowhere, AI will fire all their AHM,SAHM or IRM at you if needed, completely disregarding other planes in flight or even multiple flights! I had up to 28 missiles fired at me(you can check it out in LOG on debrief screen) and not a single one at other 7 guys in our two flights!

 

-Anyway 1950-1970 is really more interesting as AI shortcomings are not so obvious(game design period) and you don't expect the missiles you carry to hit anyway

 

But in the end, I prefer 80's, 90's so I'm stuck with what we have...

Edited September 28, 2009 by Brain32

[Fubar512]

Simple solution:

 

When you detect an airborne threat on your RWR, drop down to tree top level (and command your wingmen to follow suit by rejoining you), and head towards that threat. Let them waste their SAHMs and AHMs against the ground clutter while you're motoring around counting leaves, and when they're down to their last IRMs, pop up to engage 'em.

[ShrikeHawk]

Thanks, guys. I'll give that a try.

 

And Brain, I've counted around 20 missiles fired at me alone when I checked the log. So I know how that feels. I guess as the player, you're a high value target!

 

I generally prefer flying the 50s to 70s too. At least in that time, a dogfight was still a dogfight.

[Rambler 1-1]

Pah missiles - the 60s were so much better :)

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. Just go medieval and your BVR problems disappear!

[ShrikeHawk]

Yup! Counting leaves at the start of the engagement is working out just fine. Works over water too.

 

I got good kills in the F-15, F-16, and F-18 and...actually survived!

 

Thanks much for the assist, all!

[Gr.Viper]

I guess as the player, you're a high value target!

As the player you are the lead of your formation i.e. among the first ones who appear on their radars.

[Murphy'S]

-remember rushing at them head on at the speed of heat will get you nowhere, AI will fire all their AHM,SAHM or IRM at you if needed, completely disregarding other planes in flight or even multiple flights! I had up to 28 missiles fired at me(you can check it out in LOG on debrief screen) and not a single one at other 7 guys in our two flights!

 

 

in bvr engagement, many of my wingmen get targeted in bvr.

 

i think bvr is fine as it is (after so many year complaigning about the lack of it)

 

even chaff are pretty well balanced

 

maybe some work is needed on flare efficiency (but it's no more bvr) and that's not sure, need more test on it.

[jayo]

........and if your mud-moving,stay away from the Flankers!