Battle of France

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

We need proper ground objects (French/UK and German Tanks)

We also lack a Morane 406, Bloch 151 and so, LeO 451, MB 7, Gladiator, Battle, Breguet 691...

Well not, that much.

[+Veltro2k 6,350]

We need proper ground objects (French/UK and German Tanks)

We also lack a Morane 406, Bloch 151 and so, LeO 451, MB 7, Gladiator, Battle, Breguet 691...

Well not, that much.

 

on my part Morane , LeO and Brequet are WIPS> someone is doing the Gladiator and if you mean Fairey Battle its at Capuns

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

I'm dreaming of a breguet 693 and some panzern column to bomb and straff in the Ardennes!

 

[SUICIDAL 401]

We need proper ground objects (French/UK and German Tanks)

We also lack a Morane 406, Bloch 151 and so, LeO 451, MB 7, Gladiator, Battle, Breguet 691...

Well not, that much.

 

 

 

However, these are aircraft with much glory.

Really beautiful.

But that appointed the Morane.

ED PLEASE!! Morane Saulnier MS-760 Paris

[Bandy 3]

From the Osprey series I'm literally now reading the "French Aces of WW2", a good read and information I am just not very familiar with (maybe that's why it is a good read!).

 

According to the book at dawn 1 Sept 1939 the following numbers of French fighters were on the books:

 

573 Morane MS 405/406

120 Bloch 151/152

172 Curtiss Hawk 75's

7 Caudron-Renault 714

0 Dewoitine 520 (only under development at that time)

290 Potez 630/631

 

Basically the MS 405/406 and Potez are the vast majority and would require modeling for BoF. The Hawk is already modeled. Some bombers of course. The rest would be just icing on the cake, or fodder for Bf 109 D's and E's and 110's

 

If memory serves, then on the British side would be required the Boulton-Paul Defiant (now who was modeling that recently?), Fairey Battle, and the usual suspects already modded. Correct me if wrong, but I haven't read of the Gladiator in BoF, they certainly did serve in Norway though...

 

The German A/C are basically done AFAIK with perhaps only minor flight model tweaks to reduce engine HP and armament, though some rare recon-specific crates would be fun targets (but not required) though the "French Aces of WW2" book refers a lot to Do17's serving in that capacity. There are lots of era-appropriate (or nearly so) ground targets, and stand in's would be relatively easy to deal with.

 

I've often thought of learning the ropes and giving this campaign a try since I assume it would be relatively straight forward since it all occurs over land with identifiable goals etc. It would be neat to do some phased action like Baltika put into BoB, i.e. have the 'phoney war' period where both sides were feeling each other out with recon missions/intercepting recon missions, minor fighter-v-fighter engagements etc. THEN the Blitzkrieg with massive swarms of aircraft! Dunkirk and cross channel action would be very special missions (perhaps stand alone missions to do it right with hundreds of ships, burning stuff, swarms of infantry, smoke billowing etc.) to wrap up the whole affair.

Edited November 10, 2009 by B Bandy RFC

[Wrench 9,733]

So.....

what everyone is saying, I should get off my butt, and finish off the BEF (ok, 1 Sqdn, AASF) Hurri 1 and 12 Sqdn Battle???

 

Unfortunately, there's some mapping issues on the Hurri I can't overcome for the split black/doped silver undersides (like on the radiator...it just won't take a half/half color .. even with a decal) Screenie on request

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+LloydNB 212]

Wrench

 

The Battle is coming along nicely. I started one a while ago but got so frustrated with the model (holes that appear when the flaps deploy and stores carried externally instead of in the wing bomb bays). Perhaps someone could produce a better version some time in the future.

 

That reminds me that one of the first skins I ever did was of a Greek Battle for EAW. I checked Sandbagger's site and its still around - looks real ugly though.

 

Wrench

 

I presume that you didn't get a message from Capun. It is clear (see below) that he doesn't take even mild negative observation very well.

 

 

LLoyd

 

I see your post at CA talking about the Fairey Battle but I don't see you registering at our forum and providing the feedback needed.

 

We have been banned from CA so we cannot respond to your posts over there.

 

We do have a model with the bomb bays in the wings, we just never released it. Same as for the uncapped holes in the wings, since no one mentioned about it there was no need to repost the model.

 

If you are unhappy with our models, we would gladly cancel your account at our download site.

 

CP

(My added emphasis)

 

Capun

If you're reading this, please do cancel my account. And don't send me any of those offensive emails demanding that I ask permission before I skin an A-Team aircraft. I never have asked permission and never will.

 

Regards

 

LloydNB

[+Veltro2k 6,350]

I'm dreaming of a breguet 693 and some panzern column to bomb and straff in the Ardennes!

 

 

 

[Wrench 9,733]

Hey Your Majesty The Emperor.... you wouldn't happen to have a good copy of the art??? Make a great Loading screen

 

Another fairly good reference is Mushroom Red 1540 "Fighters Over France & the Low Countries". Breaks down the countries, and which planes. If anyone wants it, PM me and I'll zip up the PDF for any and all.

 

So...

 

we'd need Belgian Battles, Hurricanes, Gladiators and CR-42s (!!!!!) (the hurri would be the easiest, as it's a simple reskin and data ini edit to create a nationalized version, same for the Battle, even as it is.)

Capun's got a Fokker DXXII (?)-well,that fixed-gear fighter whatever it's number is , but we've got nothing else for the KLU, and the Fokker will probably need reskinning. Always wanted a that "G-somethingoranother", the twin-boomed one. Always thought it looked cool.

The aforementions AdA birds.

 

LW is pretty much covered; if a 109D is needed, we just edit Russo's Emil's data ini. And I have a template for it, so skinnning wouldn't be too big an issue.

 

etc and so forth

 

Lloyd: same reason I stopped working on it too! However, the decals wound up on Veltro's Wellington, so at least they didn't go to waste!! This one here is basically, Gramp's original skin rebadged with minimal line redrawing.

 

wrench

kevin stein

Edited November 11, 2009 by Wrench

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Hey Your Majesty The Emperor.... you wouldn't happen to have a good copy of the art??? Make a great Loading screen

Well, that's the result of a very quick googling during lunch pause. I'll try to find it bigger or better.

 

I've some documentation by my parents about Battle of France, especially in the airs, so I might help with OoB and some specifications.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

From the Osprey series I'm literally now reading the "French Aces of WW2", a good read and information I am just not very familiar with (maybe that's why it is a good read!).

 

According to the book at dawn 1 Sept 1939 the following numbers of French fighters were on the books:

 

573 Morane MS 405/406

120 Bloch 151/152

172 Curtiss Hawk 75's

7 Caudron-Renault 714

0 Dewoitine 520 (only under development at that time)

290 Potez 630/631

 

They were also still some old design in services by the outbreak of the war. They were being phased out at the time:

 

Spad S510, last ones phased out of reserve squadrons in January 1940.

 

Dewoitine 371, mainly in French Navy. Gradually phased out until flight interdiction following several accidents in April 1940.

 

Of course, trademark of the late thirties FaF: Dewoitine 500&subsequent numbers.

Some were flying overseas until 1941!

 

Loire 46: one squadron used it until Fall of 1939.

 

Morane-Saulnier MS.225: some Twenty still in use in September 1939, scrapped by the May 1940.

http://www.loopingmodels.com/images/SMER838.jpg

 

Potez 540: few still served during Phony war, but were withdawn from Front line before German attack.

http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/potez570_01.jpg

 

Farman F222: First allied bomber to attack Berlin.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/05/Farman_F.222.jpeg

 

And who would be courageous enough to play any campain in Amiot 143? Most were lost in May 1940, trying to stop german advance with almost-suicide attacks on bridges.

 

This would also be a great addition: LN 411, French navy dive bomber à la Stuka (used its landing gear as dive breaks).

 

And other French bombers too... LeO 451, Martin MB and so.

 

So if one wants to be quite complete, it will requires quite a lot of planes, even if MS406 were the most numerous ones.

I would love a start in septembre 1939, but perhaps april-may 1940 is more reasonnable.

 

By the way, it would be so sweet to fly this campaign.

It's a little known fact, but in one month and an half of fighting, the Luftwaffe lost as much planes as in BoB... Without Allied resistance in the air, later things could have been darker.

[Wrench 9,733]

That's some great box art....with a little use of the clone stamp too, viola! hangar screens!! (ok, I'm giving away my secrets!)

 

Off topic: that D.371 sure looks alot like the monoplane from the end "Blue Max"....

 

Maybe we should start a new thread for BoF???

 

wrench

kevin stein

[Bandy 3]

They were also still some old design in services by the outbreak of the war. They were being phased out at the time:

...

So if one wants to be quite complete, it will requires quite a lot of planes, even if MS406 were the most numerous ones.

I would love a start in septembre 1939, but perhaps april-may 1940 is more reasonnable.

Well these two statements (and your supporting fighter specific text in between) is kind of contradictory. Yes, the obsolete French fighters you provide images and facts for were around on French airfields at the time, I do not dispute that at all. BUT as you say they were truly being phased out and not front line combat aircraft by any stretch of the imagination.

 

There may be rare anecdotes where these fighters experienced peripheral combat, such as getting blasted in hangers , but that is no reason to have to include them as player flyable aircraft unless you are masochistic

Def'n: Gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one's own actions or the actions of others.

 

Maybe these obsolete fighters can be simply modeled for static display to add ambiance. The less successful French bombers had a hard time of it, and certainly do play a sad role in the BoF history and should be modeled for that reason, and I regret not including them in the list.

 

However, strike a balance between a realistic amount of work that will be required and realism for the campaign. Perhaps that is what you suggest by putting the start date in April-May, but why not push it back at least to January in order to include some of the excitement of those Phoney War encounters as well as experience a winter terrain.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Well, some (Loire 46; MS225 and Dewoitine D371 aka "Flying Coffin") were indeed quite anecdotical.

Others, such as Spad S510 and Dewoitine did fly war missions in the first few weeks. Some D510 even made a few failed interceptions in the Lyon area. Of course, german recon planes were by far faster... And as I said, they were on reserve bases and squadrons, deeper in the Country, not in Lorraine or Alsace as top of the line models.

 

That being said, I'm in no way asking for them in any future BoF Campaign. They would just make an awesome addition to have the squadrons that used those planes using them in the first missions and then upgrading to newer design during the course of the game. But it's indeed not that necessary.

It shall also be noted that equivalent german models, Heinkel 51 and Arado something were also serving at that time and were phased out in the same time: late 39, early 40.

 

Regarding the start of the campaign:

Is it possible to have a period of small skimirshes and espaced missions and then suddenly the real show in the same scenario?

Well, if it's the case, 1939 would be great.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Emp_Palpatine

[Wrench 9,733]

So as not to detract further from Veltro's Poetz thread, I'm opening this NEW thread and will transfer over some of the post from the original thread.

 

wrench

kevin stein

[jet_spud 0]

We need proper ground objects (French/UK and German Tanks)

We also lack a Morane 406, Bloch 151 and so, LeO 451, MB 7, Gladiator, Battle, Breguet 691...

Well not, that much.

 

 

Got the Hurrie 1 (two-blade prop) and 109E sorted alright then!

 

Seriously this sounds like a great project that will eventually fill a big gap. Even though il-2 has been modded for ages now, many of these planes are still missing....

Edited November 14, 2009 by jet_spud

[+allenjb42 4,190]

A Westland Lysander would be a nice addition for the BEF (and later for action in the Med and Burma\India too, and of course for dropping SOE agents into occupied France).

 

With little bomb racks and machine guns in the wheel spats...what's not to like?!

[+LloydNB 212]

We have couple of the bit-players on the RAF/BEF/FAA side. The Fairey Albacore and DH Tiger Moth both took part (in a limited way) in the Battle of France. Both are counted in the machines lost during the battle.

 

Does nayone kow what the Tiger Moths of the BEF communications flight looked like? If they were in camo, what colour were the bottom wing surfaces? I presume they weren't "training yellow".

 

Lloyd

Edited November 24, 2009 by LloydNB