New commer with some questions

[UnknownPilot 33]

Hi all.

 

I am a relative new-commer to Third Wire stuff, but not to simming. Right now, I am having a hell of a time in A2A combat. From looking around here, it seems you all have it aced, and I have no idea how you do it, or what I'm doing wrong. (it's ok though, a learning curve is a GOOD thing [complexity/difficulty is also a GOOD thing])

 

I come from IL2. I played CFS and Janes WWII Fighters, and CFS2 before that. In general, I'm a prophead. I do like jets though, and was talked into buying LOMAC and I got really into that for a while. Later IL2 '46 came out and I was in heaven ('46 jets! and late war hot-rods as well, all kinds of unusual and wonderful toys). I also picked up SDOE when I heard about the FS-WWI conversion for it (never heard of SDOE prior though).

 

Recently Hist. Int. had an episode of Dogfights on, and it was about F-4 stuff in Vietnam, and I got an itch to re-load SFP1, which I bought new, but never really did much with. And in looking for what was available for it these days, I saw that SF2:V was out, did some reading, and talked myself into buying it. That was just a few days ago.

 

Since then I've been reading this forum and Third Wire's own, and working on tweaking the game and coding a new profile for my Cougar for it.

 

Ok, so....

 

I have found the F-100 to be utterly useless at doing anything but running away from MiG17s. I tried single mission after single mission. In doing some reading, I gathered that the F-8 was leaps and bounds ahead of the F-100, reluctant at moving away from such a cool (looking) plane, and at thinking I was going for a high powered plane (what IL2 guys call "über planes"), I tried it anyway, just to see. It felt much better and was much faster, that's for sure.... but it was still hopeless and helpless.

 

Now, let me add this - in IL2, I gradually learned E-fighting, and spent(/spend) nearly all my time in energy fighters - FW-190, P-47, Do-335, Me-262, even the P-40 which is a good turner, but not against the Japanese in Burma, so it's an energy fighter there. I'm not a top online ace, but I hold my own, and have no fear of the AI. Even in LOMAC, whether F-15, or MiG29, hell, even with the A-10 I was downing enemy planes. Offline I was able to complete campaigns, online I was running about .500 or so. Here, in SF2:V, I have not managed to get one kill yet, despite many, many, many, many attempts.

 

I'm having 2 problems, 1 is the AI behavior, but the other, and BIG one, is visibility. "Lose sight, lose the fight" - I'm lucky if I can ever GET sight to lose it.

 

They love to turn. And they love to turn in a spiral climb like they were damned 109s. And with both the F-100 and the F-8, the minute you try to turn even a little, your speed drops to 0, even with burners on, and meanwhile, the MiG is turning and climbing away from you until you have to point your nose down and run away. And missiles or guns, it doesn't matter, in both you need a good 6 o clock position (Sidewinders), and I just can't get it.

 

Now, I know, that sounds like n00b turn fighting, and I really do know better, but the problem is, I can never find nor track enemy planes, so once I do see one, I'm forced to latch on and try to get angles on it, and well, you see how that turns out.

 

In every other sim I mentioned, visibility is seemingly MUCH better. Whether it is dot size, contrast and distance, or icons (if turned on), it's just so much easier to locate and track your targets so that you can actually manage to fight in the vertical.

 

Here's what I have and have done -

 

P4 3.2GHz, 2GB RAM, GeForce 6600 (AGP), Win XP Pro SP3, latest nvidia drivers, that ENB Series thing which made frame rates playable, running at 1024x768, with many settings (horizon, textures, object, etc) set to medium, and a few like water set to low and shadows turned off. (searching for frame rates - even at that I was in the low to mid 20s until I applied that ENB thing, that got me up into the mid 30s)

 

Install is stock SF2:V, bought and downloaded from 3rd Wire.

 

Difficulty was set to max hard, but I have since set AI to Easy (even after trying normal), and target visibility to Easy (tried normal here too).

 

Is there any way to enable icons for other planes? Or to increase "dot" visibility distance or contrast? Anything to make targets easier to spot and track (preferably adjustable if possible).

 

Padlock views aren't helping really, I still can't see the plane it's locked on to, and when in a gaggle, I don't know which one it is, and the zoom is awkward, and it 'seeks' and looses sight at extremes far worse than IL2s, which, combined with the inability to manually pick the PL'd target (in IL2, I could zoom in on a plane and hit PL and it would lock THAT plane, then, depending on icon settings it might show a triangle around them, and around the gunsight it would auto center the view to the front, only leaving that when the target strayed too far).

 

That's not a question so much as a comment, though any advice there is always welcome.

 

Oh, before I forget, in LOMAC there is a mod to put markers on the canopy. Is there such a mod here? I haven't found it. In IL2 it's easy to keep track of where you are looking, in a pure bubble canopy, it isn't. Especially when the AI loves to play hard to get and you can't really bring in a canopy reference to know which way your head is pointed and which way the plane is headed. lol

 

 

Thanks.

[Guest rscsjsuso5]

you a new member so welcome

 

just a suggestion have u consulted the manual of the game or read the knowledge base.

 

enjoy and again welcome

[+hgbn 91]

The F-100D is a lesson in energy management. High G turns and you bleed energy like hell. be easy on the stick fight in the vertical. Never be lured into a turning fight with a Mig or you lose. Learn to use the T+ F4 key to padlock your target in the game your pilot is turning his head the direction of the given target. If you set the HUD on normal mode in game options a red square will occuron your target. when ever you acquire a target along with a red cone pointing in the direction of the target.

[Fubar512 1,350]

Sometime after 1965-66, The USAF stopped sending F-100s into North Vietnam (other than those tasked as Wild Weasels and Misty FACs), due to their poor performance when stacked up against VPAF MiG-17s.

 

I suggest that you stick to the F-4 and F-8 series, as they did much better againt the VPAF MiGs.

[toonces 4]

FWIW, I have a horrible time with the views in the sim as well. I use TrackIR exclusively (never tried padlock) and I play with max difficulty, no labels, etc.

 

The rearward visibility in all of the jets is just ridiculous. I feel like I should be able to see at least 15-20 degrees further back than the sim lets me. I guarantee you that if I had a MiG on my 6 I'd find a way to lean and turn in the seat to look over my shoulder.

 

Also, I agree that the jets are very hard to pick up visually because they are so small. However, from my reading, the MiG's were pretty hard to pick up more than 2-3 mile away, so perhaps this isn't too unrealistic.

 

I haven't experienced an problems dominating in dogfights, however SAM avoidance over N. Vietnam has been tough.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I've had some pretty good times in a Hun.

 

The first thing to know is that you should NEVER turn with a MIG. Go vertical always and dissipate their energy every possible way you can. If you do insist on turning, go to the outside and lag pursuit until either the MIG bleeds off enough speed or reverses it's turn and allows you a chance of a snap shot.

 

When in doubt, unload, seperate, and re-engage.

 

If the situation is really bad, call it a day and head home.

[UnknownPilot 33]

rscsjsuso5 : Yes, I have read the manual and the KB, and that's why I am posting here, because I didn't find the solution I need/am looking for. :)

 

hgbn & Lt James Cater : Agreed on all counts. :) I sometimes get carried away when writing and I guess it is read differently than I intended, but yes, I realize the MiGs should be fought in the vertical. Just like when using the Do-335 Pfeil in an Air to Air role, or using a 190 Anton to fight a Spitfire. The trouble for me here is, I can't locate or track the enemy unless I'm basically in the pit with him, so that makes energy fighting near impossible.

 

It's exacerbated by the way the padlock works. The ability to "target" any enemy, whether you had spotted them or not is a bit weird. But since I can't see them when they are centered in my view but just a short distance out (E-fighting distance), I then have no way of knowing if it's a case of them being too far away, or being out of range of head movement. It's hard for me to put it in words, but basically both cases look and behave the same way, leaving me feeling like I'm fighting with a blind fold on.

 

I really don't want to use icons, honestly, but this seems to be a limitation of the graphics engine vs real life, I can't beleive they are that invisible for real (the combat stories you hear about where RADAR is not used, pretty much require visibility to a few miles out).

 

I will try dropping the HUD setting, see what that does for me. Is there no other way to tweak visibility distance? Via an ini or something? Could the enbseries thing-y (stickied here - http://forum.combatace.com/topic/43231-yo-check-this-out-great-speed-boost/ ) have something to do with reducing vis?

 

BTW - this is the LOMAC mod I was referring to -

 

That's the full blown version. There is also a simple version as well -

 

That makes it much easier to tell where you are looking, and where the plane is headed. I've not seen something like this for Strike Fighters yet - do any of you guys know of such a thing out there for SF?

 

 

Thanks all for the responses. :)

 

 

[+sony tuckson 12]

no, this thing isn't available in SF series

 

I probably could be done by modding the TGA used for canopies, but that wouldn't be an easy task I'm afraid, and I'm not even sure how this file is used by the game engine, probably not like any other skin part, so expect this just not to work at all....

[Fubar512 1,350]

Lift lines would most likely require a new cockpit .lod for each aircraft, though it may be possible to add it using FastCargo's copilot method.

[+EricJ 4,245]

It's exacerbated by the way the padlock works. The ability to "target" any enemy, whether you had spotted them or not is a bit weird. But since I can't see them when they are centered in my view but just a short distance out (E-fighting distance), I then have no way of knowing if it's a case of them being too far away, or being out of range of head movement. It's hard for me to put it in words, but basically both cases look and behave the same way, leaving me feeling like I'm fighting with a blind fold on.

 

That makes it much easier to tell where you are looking, and where the plane is headed. I've not seen something like this for Strike Fighters yet - do any of you guys know of such a thing out there for SF?

 

 

Thanks all for the responses. :)

 

I tend to try and keep a wing in view as most of the time I use padlock for ground attacks, and when I get in a knife fight. Just keep some sort of piece of aircraft visible so you don't get too confused. And not highly recommended but if you gotta, hit W to level the wings, or to get your aircraft somewhat oriented then turn it off and go from there. Also I adjust my zoom all the way out for my cockpit and it helps me out greatly, as I keep my SA up and still work the cockpit if I can.

[UnknownPilot 33]

I tend to try and keep a wing in view as most of the time I use padlock for ground attacks, and when I get in a knife fight. Just keep some sort of piece of aircraft visible so you don't get too confused. And not highly recommended but if you gotta, hit W to level the wings, or to get your aircraft somewhat oriented then turn it off and go from there. Also I adjust my zoom all the way out for my cockpit and it helps me out greatly, as I keep my SA up and still work the cockpit if I can.

 

 

Well, since the point of PL is to keep the enemy centered in view, and since we are in stream-lined bricks against turbine powered aerobats, that is a rather tall order. lol

 

I've helped it somewhat with putting PL on my stick, and also by discovering that I could zoom the PL view, and adding the zoom keys (mouse buttons) to my stick as well, and all around the same hat (H2, up is wide view, down is "normal", right is close or "gunsight" in IL2 parlence, left is gunsight mode, shift up is zoom out, shift down is zoom in, shift right is PL, nothing for shift left yet).

 

This has helped by allowing me to adjust the zoom on the fly, and also turn PL on and off without having to take my hands off either the stick or the throttle.

 

I also turned HUD to normal and edited out the floating RADAR and waypoint triangle (need to edit out the waypoint cone as well, thought I had but apparently missed it). This helped, but it's also overkill. You can see your target even when you shouldn't be able to - both wnen they are behind your guages, and when they are 20 + NM away. And unfortunately, it still doesn't really tell me which way they are going/turning/etc, but it does tell me their speed and range, which I can't seem to turn off.

 

I'm living with it. So don't mistake that as too severe kvetching. It would just be nice if the range could be limited, and the target data on the "speed bar" could be edited and/or turned off. Of course it would be even nicer if those targets weren't tracked/super imposed in places you can't see through. But the true ideal would be just to increase the visible distance of the enemy planes, and perhaps toss in the adjustable range target box indicator for good measure. hehe

 

But, I must say, this combo has finally got me scoring aerial kills now. So thanks again to everyone. :)

[toonces 4]

unknown,

You can turn off that speed bar thing. I don't remember how, but it's not hard and someone will chime in with the way to do it. I just remember you have to open one of the config-type files with notepad and edit the font size- I think if you make the font size "0" then the box won't show up anymore. You can also do the same thing with the cone and targeting diamond.

 

A long time ago I did this so I'd have a tiny little cone to help me keep oriented against the enemy without it looking too "gamey".

 

Since my return to this game, I just fly with the hard settings and accept that I lose sight of the enemy a lot. I wish there were a way to increase the FoV to the rear; it seems far to restrictive too me.

[UnknownPilot 33]

unknown,

You can turn off that speed bar thing. I don't remember how, but it's not hard and someone will chime in with the way to do it. I just remember you have to open one of the config-type files with notepad and edit the font size- I think if you make the font size "0" then the box won't show up anymore. You can also do the same thing with the cone and targeting diamond.

 

A long time ago I did this so I'd have a tiny little cone to help me keep oriented against the enemy without it looking too "gamey".

 

Since my return to this game, I just fly with the hard settings and accept that I lose sight of the enemy a lot. I wish there were a way to increase the FoV to the rear; it seems far to restrictive too me.

 

As I was first reading your comment, I was thinking "Alt+D", but then I see that you mean a little more granular than that. I like the option of having my own speed bar up, but the enemies is a bit over kill, and Alt+D is all or none (3 phases, off, on, and on with FPS data). But you're probably right, the HUDData.ini probably has something for that and I guess the same technique could be applied.

 

In IL2, I always did 'pit on, short-ish icons, PL on, and externals on (so I could jump out and enjoy the scenery from time to time). Lately I started using extremely short icons, where enemies had nothing until like 1Km or so, and then it only showed color and type (no range). I was working toward turning them off entirely, and also trying to not use PL, so that I could play in those damnable full switch servers on HL. Yet have always maintained that PL and icons are a means of allowing the limitations of the interface (ie, small, low res, flat, 2D, computer screen) to be compensated for a bit.

 

That's sort of what I was looking for here. It must be said, that stock icon setting in IL2 is 4.5Km, and you can see planes WELL before that. In SF2:V, the enemy disappears totally, smoke trail and all, at just over 1 mile out. According to Google, 4.5Km is 2.42NM, and I was able to see little WWII prop jobs out beyond that, to 5Km or more. And then of course there were the arguments from real pilots about how they could ID planes out beyone what was possible in IL2 without icons, supporting the use of icons....... and I'm rambling again.

 

 

Anyway. Yeah, I wanted to use the hard setting. But since the only thing that can be relied on is guns, it's just not an option for me as it stands (even for mud moving, I just can't locate targets until I'm on top of them).

[+EricJ 4,245]

As a former LOMAC flyer, the TW series of sims is less complex than IL-2 or LOMAC as of yet. Pretty much the intent of the game is to fly spiffy planes around and such. Thirdwire, if I understand their Facebook profile, is like 4 guys. So they don't have the development team that 1:C and Eagle Dynamics does, so you have to roll with it. It's getting complex don't get me wrong, but take the game as it is, and just roll with it.

[UnknownPilot 33]

As a former LOMAC flyer, the TW series of sims is less complex than IL-2 or LOMAC as of yet. Pretty much the intent of the game is to fly spiffy planes around and such. Thirdwire, if I understand their Facebook profile, is like 4 guys. So they don't have the development team that 1:C and Eagle Dynamics does, so you have to roll with it. It's getting complex don't get me wrong, but take the game as it is, and just roll with it.

 

:)

 

Yeah, I can see 4 guys being limiting, for time, resources, funding, etc, etc. I didn't know that up front however, and wasn't sure if there was a setting for what I'm looking for. Being that there isn't, I was then wondering if there was a mod to accomplish it, or if such a mod were possible.

 

If everyone merely "rolled with it", we wouldn't have all the amazing add ons and mods that are out there.

[+EricJ 4,245]

Hehe yeah, I mean more that you can't expect as much as those sims are concerned

 

As far as visibility and view mods, Silverbolt has one in the SF1 section that you can put in the Flight folder and it'll give you some more stuff to play with. I had to take some time to configure it so I could see the HSI on the Super Hornet cockpit, but if you have SF2 I can send what I have and you have to put that in the Flight folder in your User/Saved Games/Thirdwire/SF2 Game you bought/Flight folder and it'll help with some of the issues you're having. It can be tweaked to your preferences.

[toonces 4]

That's it- the HUD data .ini. I think if you browse around in there, there's a way to change the size of the info boxes. You can make it really small, change the font size and/or color, stuff like that to make it less intrusive or eliminate it altogether.

[UnknownPilot 33]

Hehe yeah, I mean more that you can't expect as much as those sims are concerned

 

As far as visibility and view mods, Silverbolt has one in the SF1 section that you can put in the Flight folder and it'll give you some more stuff to play with. I had to take some time to configure it so I could see the HSI on the Super Hornet cockpit, but if you have SF2 I can send what I have and you have to put that in the Flight folder in your User/Saved Games/Thirdwire/SF2 Game you bought/Flight folder and it'll help with some of the issues you're having. It can be tweaked to your preferences.

 

That would be sweet!

 

My email address is blutspray@aim.com. Thanks! :)

[+EricJ 4,245]

Sent. Like LOMAC you can replace certain files without having to touch the core files, which helps to save alot of "Whooops!" issues.

[Romflyer 25]

The huddata.ini is the ticket to customizing what info is diplayed on the screen. If you put // in front of an entry and it will eliminate it, for me all the red writting in the bottom left and right...gone, radar screen in upper right...gone, waypoint markers....gone, red square around target....change the size and make it smaller so it is just a little red dot over your visual target, I still use the cones to let me know that I have a visual target and the general direction to look in order to see him, and the same for the waypoint cone it tells me the general direction to turn towards for my next waypoint but once you turn towards it the cone disappears. These changes for me have dramatically improved the overall feel of the......game/simulator, now you have to use the instruments to check your speed and track your waypoints and fly the plane.

As for padlock veiw it is a must have to have it beside your hat ready for your thumb and the trick to not getting dissoriented is to keep pressing the padlock button so you look at the target then press it again to look forward press it again to keep tracking the target.......then again buying trackir was the best investment I have made for simming in a long time (never use padlock anymore)

[UnknownPilot 33]

Yeah, I've 'turned off' the floating radar display, and also got rid of all waypoint indicators entirely, most, if not all, the planes have that awesome radio direction indicator (like the Bf-109 and FW-190 had), which just takes you from waypoint to waypoint, even showing if you are off to one side of it or not (if you care).

 

Currently have left the target box and cone alone. Since you can still target unseen items, even through mountains and up to 100NM away, there doesn't seem to be much point to tweaking it further, but reducing the size, as you mentioned, seems like a cool idea. I'll definitely have to consider that.

 

One thing I was trying to do was get rid of the target data in the lower right - unless I missed something, there doesn't appear to be a way of doing that without also affecting the personal speedbar data (on the left, your own speed, alt, heading, etc). There's no sense in editing that file if I'm going to make both disappear totally, because I can use Alt+D to do that. Since the HUD set to hard does exactly what I'm looking for, it must be possible, I'm guessing I've just missed it so far.

 

Eric, I've not had a chance to do more than just look over that file you sent. That thing looks quite complex, but I definitely will be digging into it and using it.

[Romflyer 25]

Yeah, I've 'turned off' the floating radar display, and also got rid of all waypoint indicators entirely, most, if not all, the planes have that awesome radio direction indicator (like the Bf-109 and FW-190 had), which just takes you from waypoint to waypoint, even showing if you are off to one side of it or not (if you care).

 

Currently have left the target box and cone alone. Since you can still target unseen items, even through mountains and up to 100NM away, there doesn't seem to be much point to tweaking it further, but reducing the size, as you mentioned, seems like a cool idea. I'll definitely have to consider that.

 

One thing I was trying to do was get rid of the target data in the lower right - unless I missed something, there doesn't appear to be a way of doing that without also affecting the personal speedbar data (on the left, your own speed, alt, heading, etc). There's no sense in editing that file if I'm going to make both disappear totally, because I can use Alt+D to do that. Since the HUD set to hard does exactly what I'm looking for, it must be possible, I'm guessing I've just missed it so far.

 

Eric, I've not had a chance to do more than just look over that file you sent. That thing looks quite complex, but I definitely will be digging into it and using it.

 

The problem of using alt-d is that it does get rid of everything, and I find the targeting info to be a necessity (both visual and radar) I think you would like getting rid of the personal red info in the bottom left (and right), it feels a little odd at first but then you just push yourself to use your instruments, and the next thing you know the game is starting to feel like a simulator

[UnknownPilot 33]

The problem of using alt-d is that it does get rid of everything, and I find the targeting info to be a necessity (both visual and radar) I think you would like getting rid of the personal red info in the bottom left (and right), it feels a little odd at first but then you just push yourself to use your instruments, and the next thing you know the game is starting to feel like a simulator

 

Hmm... I'm not sure what other stuff you mean? From what I've seen, with HUD on "normal", when you load the mission you have your own planes info on the lower left (in white, IIRC) - Speed, Alt, Heading, Flight Name (not sure what else). Once you get a target, it's info, mirroring that of your own, shows up in red on the right.

 

Now, if you hit Alt+D, it brings up FPS info in white at the top center of the screen. Hit it again, and it all goes away.

 

Generally speaking I don't fly with the FPS data on. And it sounds like what you are talking about is getting rid of both the target, and personal plane info (which I know as the "speedbar", IL2 parlence) through editing the HUDData.ini, but to leave what....? Doesn't sound like it would be any different.

 

I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative, just not sure what you mean.

[MigBuster 2,884]

Using these jets just takes practise - is different to what youve been used to. If you can get a TrackIR - you can zoom in easily and spot jets further out without using icons.

 

In the early F-4s you will have the pleasure of using hopeless missiles and poor radars also.

[Romflyer 25]

Hmm... I'm not sure what other stuff you mean? From what I've seen, with HUD on "normal", when you load the mission you have your own planes info on the lower left (in white, IIRC) - Speed, Alt, Heading, Flight Name (not sure what else). Once you get a target, it's info, mirroring that of your own, shows up in red on the right.

 

Now, if you hit Alt+D, it brings up FPS info in white at the top center of the screen. Hit it again, and it all goes away.

 

Generally speaking I don't fly with the FPS data on. And it sounds like what you are talking about is getting rid of both the target, and personal plane info (which I know as the "speedbar", IL2 parlence) through editing the HUDData.ini, but to leave what....? Doesn't sound like it would be any different.

 

I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative, just not sure what you mean.

 

My mistake about alt+d. I never use it anymore, but maybe it's cntrl+h which turns off and on the hud info completely?? my point was that using the huddata.ini you can get rid of all the useless info, but leave some of the usefull target tracking stuff. I was thinking that when you said alt-d that you were refering to the hud info, not the fps counter.

 

like Migbuster said.......trackir.......if you can, don't hesitate