allies/axis-red/blue,pointless friday question

[HotNess 2]

ok..as its friday im aloud to ask a pointless question..lol...ok,in the real world of killing people and war..theres always goodies and baddies..now,we know that as UK and others we are allies..and the bad bad people are axis..(sometimes of evil)..then flying..we are blue,they are red..sometimes we have blue on blue friendly fire etc..(not mentioning any country specifically..ooh politics lol)...now,what if we are bad guys,do we see it as same..do the bad guys call themselves allies and us axis..and are they blue and we red..as each side will think there the goodies...what if they all sat down and tried to talk it out,woulnt that be awkward if say general bonk.(made up bad guy leader)..if he said we will accept peace if the allies get to keep the oil wells and the axis leave the area...well to the good guys,that just wouldnt make sence,they would think baddies are giving up oil field and leaving..so they would agree,nothing would happen,they both then say they broke agreement and they shoot each other...so who is blue..who is red.lol ??

 

xx V xx

Edited February 12, 2010 by HotNess

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Bloody Hell!..it must be friday!...that Woman is talking at us again!

 

(that question is far too Philisophical for my tiny Male Brain Hotness...but good luck with it!)

[HotNess 2]

oh just wait till my next topic..its just gonna be way to deep for friday..lol

 

xx V xx

[jomni 6]

Now you've metioned it, red vs. blue is very common in human history.

 

But red does not mean you are on the 'bad' side.

 

If you talk about the Russians, Chinese, and Communists in general... they will still think of themselves as Reds because their flags are red. Red is a very important color for the revolution.

 

Red is a happy and auspicious color for Asians. In stock markets in Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, Japan. When the stock price is up... it is collored red.

 

Just to add the 'Axis' is not an evil term. It is actually what fascists call their alliances during World War II. Oh didn't you notice that the Nazi and Japanese flags are predominantly red? Italy has some red and no trace of blue. :D USA, UK, France has traces of blue. So it's another case of Blue vs. Red... except for the the Russians that are Red and part of the Allies.

Edited February 12, 2010 by jomni

[shotdown 8]

USA, UK, France has traces of blue. So it's another case of Blue vs. Red

 

That's true but, with the exception of UK There is at least as much red as there is blue on those flags. By the way, mine:salute: is half red too.

Edited February 12, 2010 by shotdown

[nwdingo 0]

well the whole were the goodies and there the baddies is alot easier to come to grips with...but...are you ready for this..i cant belive im gonna say this lol...in war,there are no good or bad,theres no winners,coz in the long run..humanity looses,as we are for no matter what hell bent on wipeing each other out,we will always find an excuse,even when we have the 2 last people on earth..you can bet they will fight,and when 1 man is left..he will pick a fight with a bear or something..theres never been peace between man...so what ever colours there is,theres gonna be blood red....wow,wtf happend to me then i went all philisophical..lol

 

unless its falklands war that is...coz we kicked arse then pmsl

[+Gepard 11,289]

There are 3 military colors. Blue, Red, Yellow. Yellow is neutral. Blue is by NATO terms friendly, but was in WP terms enemy. Red vice versa.

 

Bad guys and good guys. This are terms for kindergarden or the yellow press. If you ask on both sides of the frontline you will always hear "We are the good guys and the others are the bad guys." Its a question of the point of view.

 

Better are the terms "opponent" and "enemy". But there are differences. Opponent is the guy of the other side. Who is not responsible that he is born in a different contry. There is no need to hate. In case of war the opponent becomes an enemy. The enemy wants to kill, thatswhy hate is neccessary and helpfull to overcome.

 

When i was walking the borderline 21 years ago the westgerman or british or american soldier on the other side were an opponent. No need to hate. Its like a football game, without opponent you cant play the game.

It became different in some occassions when the guys of the other side directed their weapons on me. This happend a couple of times. I looked in the barrel of a M-1 tank, saw Bundesgrenzschutz (BGS) guys aiming on me with their HK MP5. This persons were enemies. Different were british soldiers i have spoken at the line. No weapon rattle, no bad arguments, no showing of bad signs. This were opponents and an opponent can be a friend too, an enemy never.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Gepard

[macelena 1,070]

To both your friday topics, as somebody who has never been in combat, but allways thrilled about war, i think war, as a word, comes to mean it all. Implies a lot of people, each with their own motivations, feelings, their own way to get things done, and an impressive amount of unexpected events. So as an individual you just make what at you, and everything you bring along with you, takes you to do. For everything else, Mastercard.

[Capitaine Vengeur 263]

During the 500-Year War between English and Scots, the good guys brandished the red flag (up to be totally redclad by the end), and the bad guys the blue one... of course on the victor's point of view, as usual. But the Scottish blue has been integrated into the Union Jack, whose colors have been kept on the American Independence flag, whose colors in turn inspired the French Revolutionary flag (up to have the French Revolutionary soldiers wear blue until 1914, and the American Federals until about 1898). So the bad guys have finally won.

 

---------------------------------

 

"The enemy is dumb. He thinks WE are the enemy, while he actually is." (a French humorist)

[UnknownPilot 33]

in war,there are no good or bad,theres no winners,coz in the long run..humanity looses

 

Yes, of course, doing what nature has required we do in order to survive means we lose.

 

And hell, to say nothing of breaking the sound barrier, supersonic passenger craft, RADAR, wireless communication, computers, reaching the moon (and combinind this with the previous 2, satellites granting everything from GPS to TV to Internet to Radio to phone calls planet-wide), advances in medicine (from the battlefields of the late 1700's to Josef Mengela - even to research in actuated prosthetics (cyberlimbs) and implants), synthetic rubber, synthetic fuels, the near limitless potential of atomic power, far greater understanding of the sea and of weather (and thereby, of the planet itself, ranging from how it came to be the way it is, to ways of better reading it to deal with catastrophies), even fledgling steps at controling the weather, oh, and other fun stuff like super-chargers, turbo-chargers, jet engines, fuel injection, lighter materials, stronger materials (aluminum alloys and titanium) and better heat resistant materials (carbon fiber and carbon carbon)......

 

I could go on forever. Basically the entire modern world and all of technology is driven by military needs. It also boosts the economy of the winning nations (eg, the great depression to WWII to coming out as one of the richest nations in the world). And it helps trim the population as well (well, it USED to, damn liberals are screwing that part all up) - and yes, that is vital. This rock really can't support 6.5 billion properly, we WILL collapse under our own weight, and sooner rather than later, and there will be massive chaos and starvation and devestation on a scale far greater than any war (short of a nuclear war).

 

Mankind is a social mammal. Social mammals need to be aggressive and competitive to survive. For us, that can and does lead to war (thanks in no small part to our capacity for abstract thought). To get rid of what causes war, you will doom the entire race to a slow but inevitable death. And if you simply enforce it through legal means (which would be the height of irony), then you will cause problems elsewhere as that build up behind the dam will find other cracks to spring out of.

[Slartibartfast 153]

Red blue Orange Brown its all semantics on the colours...

 

War though is hell Bosnia showed me that one and the best comment I have used was who are we supposed to be protecting today at a morning brief because I was as confused as the next guy on who was a good guy and who was a bad guy... Also its strange this good guy bad guy thing as One persons Freedom fighter is another persons Terrorist...

 

Russian Troops would see that they where the good guys and Nato troops would see that they where the good guys but as someone once said the Winners of War are the deciders in History on who are the Good guys and who are the bad guys...

[+whiteknight06604 934]

Good and bad are confusing but some times a force can have a moral highground so that even though someone is a "freedom fighter" they can still be the bad guys.For examples look up Che Guevara,Hamas,Hezbohla...they are all groups or people that while fighting nominaly for freedom they are evil and use tactics that can only be described as bad.Most have motives that in the long run turn out to be evil..see Cuba,Iran.revolutions there were to "help" the people but in the end just repressed them and in lots of cases worse.

[HotNess 2]

Yes, of course, doing what nature has required we do in order to survive means we lose.

 

 

Mankind is a social mammal. Social mammals need to be aggressive and competitive to survive. For us, that can and does lead to war (thanks in no small part to our capacity for abstract thought). To get rid of what causes war, you will doom the entire race to a slow but inevitable death. And if you simply enforce it through legal means (which would be the height of irony), then you will cause problems elsewhere as that build up behind the dam will find other cracks to spring out of.

 

yes..but all your carbon fibre,computers,banana freezing machines,microwaves etc that you say war has brought us..the point is..if you see your family killed ,do you find comfort in your flat screen tv and think well its ok,my kids are dead but atleast we get HD now,and what when we wipe each other out..who then benefits..im not saying peace on earth and all that crap..christ give me a gun and ill shot half the people on her lol...( and you know who you are lol)yes man will always fight man to the very end...and as for needed war to control population etc,then why stop saddam,he was doing a job of wipeing out people,hitler did the same..yet we stopped them under humaity cause,cant have it both ways

 

xx v xx

[UnknownPilot 33]

yes..but all your carbon fibre,computers,banana freezing machines,microwaves etc that you say war has brought us..the point is..if you see your family killed ,do you find comfort in your flat screen tv and think well its ok,my kids are dead but atleast we get HD now,and what when we wipe each other out..who then benefits..im not saying peace on earth and all that crap..christ give me a gun and ill shot half the people on her lol...( and you know who you are lol)yes man will always fight man to the very end...and as for needed war to control population etc,then why stop saddam,he was doing a job of wipeing out people,hitler did the same..yet we stopped them under humaity cause,cant have it both ways

 

xx v xx

 

 

That's a typically selfish liberal viewpoint and response. You can't look at it as just your own family, you have to look at the race as a whole. Would you prefer to have humanity living without indoor plumbing and working your fingers to the bone for every day of your (what would be in that case) miserable existance?

 

People die. So what? Sometimes they are close to you, most of the time not. If they choose to go in, well, they know the risks, who are you to tell them what to do with their lives? It would be no different if your brother or son died in a sporting accident, should we then rail against sports as well?

 

So the bottom line is that war has progressed humanity, it has enabled us to reach for the stars, to eventually make sure that we can outlive even our solar system, to reach heights previously unimagined, and to actually enjoy a good quality of life - that does not come without a price (just like freedom). Didn't you just say you can't have it both ways?

 

As for taking saddam out, I said that population control is necessary, and that war in and of itself is one way to accomplish it since people are far too squeamish and selfish to go for birth reductions. To suggest that this means leaving global bullies in power is just inane - as that would have only a localized effect on the population, and not have the benefit of tech improvement, and of course, ultimately be impossible anyway, as eventually they would come knocking on our door and we'd have to deal with it. That was a really spurious comment there.

 

When you get right down to it, my comment was in response to the idea that "humanity loses" from war, in fact, it does not, it benefits in every way imaginable.

Edited February 12, 2010 by UnknownPilot

[nwdingo 0]

War though is hell Bosnia showed me that

 

I agree,you have to experiance it and even then it doesnt say you will understand it,

 

as for some other comments on another post,regarding in some ways we need war,..i think i just been beat to a similar point by hotness...it varies,you can say that if your one "the winning side",or your all nice and safe,and your family is safe..having said that and dropped alot of bombs myself,i always remember the footage of an aircraft bombing a bridge and a guy in his truck just missing it by seconds,he just gets over the bridge,and it was a great laughing point..but some off them didnt make it over the next bridge or the next,and they were only going home to there families..now to me,its a job,but as my son once said..when i returned ,will they bomb us at home,now i explaind no, useing the whole confidance that nobody would invade england and we are safe...but a tiny thing like that does make you think,yet as soon as its back to work time,i do my job,and i love it,but then as so many pilots agree,we dont see the human side,well very rare we do,and we can distance ourselves. so as for good and bad,as long as we are the side that benefits we can be ok with it...and in quite a childish way,im happy for my country to pick a fight with anyone..as long as it not north korea

[nwdingo 0]

 

When you get right down to it, my comment was in response to the idea that "humanity loses" from war, in fact, it does not, it benefits in every way imaginable.

 

with all due respect..you havnt a clue,as much as you think you have..no you havnt ,

[UnknownPilot 33]

with all due respect..you havnt a clue,as much as you think you have..no you havnt ,

 

 

Your touchy-feely heart-ache does not stand up to the facts. You are absolutely incorrect. Sorry.

 

I know it sounds harsh and people don't "like" it, but facts and history and science aren't normally "pretty" or palatable, but they stand nevertheless. It IS inevitable, and it DOES benefit the entire species going forward. That's just a cold hard fact (well, 2 actually lol).

Edited February 12, 2010 by UnknownPilot

[nwdingo 0]

if i had touchy feely heart i would have gone into 3 war zones as my job,it so easy to sit as say harsh and people die,yes its fact...its tv ,computer game fact..until you do it,you dont know,until its affecting you,ya dont know...so..as i said,you havnt a clue..fact

[UnknownPilot 33]

if i had touchy feely heart i would have gone into 3 war zones as my job,it so easy to sit as say harsh and people die,yes its fact...its tv ,computer game fact..until you do it,you dont know,until its affecting you,ya dont know...so..as i said,you havnt a clue..fact

 

 

You are outright claiming that war does not benefit humanity. So then helicopters to resuce victims of natural disasters are not a benefit to humanity? Radar to track storms and warn people so that they can prepare for the onslaught is not a benefit to humanity? Bombers equipped with fire suppression capabilities to save forrests, as well as paratroop technology (smoke jumpers) are not a benefit to humanity?

 

I could go on for days. The fact is that YOU don't have a clue, and instead insist on basing your argument on emotion and not fact. End of story.

[Slartibartfast 153]

Also Miss Hotness can you warn us all next time e.g. give us a days warning that something weird is on its way especially for a Friday !!! Now where's my Drink...

[nwdingo 0]

You are outright claiming that war does not benefit humanity.

 

really..show me where i have claimed that.!i suggest you read the posts before making comments..fact it was you who said people die fact, it benefits in every way imaginable..well it doesnt..and as i say..you point out in the whole thread where anyone claims outright war does not benefit humanity..you cant can you..so before you do your whole silly little end of story speech ..maybe go over the thread,as you will even notice,your first post had nothing really to do with the posts subject any..ohh and before you go re quoting in war,there are no good or bad,theres no winners,coz in the long run..humanity looses..thats not claiming outright humity doesnt benefit..read the posts and understand them first

Edited February 12, 2010 by nwdingo

[UnknownPilot 33]

really..show me where i have claimed that.!i suggest you read the posts before making comments..fact it was you who said people die fact, it benefits in every way imaginable..well it doesnt..and as i say..you point out in the whole thread where anyone claims outright war does not benefit humanity..you cant can you..so before you do your whole silly little end of story speech ..maybe go over the thread,as you will even notice,your first post had nothing really to do with the posts subject any..ohh and before you go re quoting in war,there are no good or bad,theres no winners,coz in the long run..humanity looses..thats not claiming outright humity doesnt benefit..read the posts and understand them first

 

 

Gotta love the attitudes from the dense internet tough-guys. And the backpeddaling too. lol You can't refute the points, so now you try to act haughty in an effort to put it back on me. Isn't happening sunshine. ;)

 

No matter how badly you want to spin it, saying that humanity looses DOES mean that the species does not benefit. Further, AFTER I stated that the species benefits from war, you proceed to let your emotions get in the way and tell us all about how out of touch you were when you decided to have a go at me. While it's possible that you just don't understand that (that claiming humanity loses does mean that it doesn't benefit), I'd lay odds that your emotions just welled up so much that you couldn't help but go off, and now we see the aftermath, the typical desperate after-the-fact spin atttempt.

 

Why not just let it go instead of continuing to dig deeper like this? Do you really think that more empty posturing will change anything? All you've done is prove the point that you are speaking emotionally, and that you are unable to really back up your attacks. I do beleive that flame wars are against the TOS here, so further provoking me with your insults would be in violation, not just pointless and counter-productive - I've kept it to facts and merely countered your unsubstantiated attitude and posturing.

[HotNess 2]

and how do you figure that out..? as your so mr clever from reading your last post..first of all do your homework,the humaity looses quote i belive from his first post is actually a quote by an american WW2 general,who lead many a battle and won..and as it said it refers to the act of being in war at the time so,he,s obviously wrong and your right i take it ?? ...yeh in your head , 2nd your putting humity as human species,it has many different meanings as in the saying "oh the humity of it all"..it doesnt mean oh the human race of it all..its a referance to the suffering,of how the human race looses its humaity and becomes more animalistic,you have simply taken 1 opinion..yours and gone with that , again your putting your great wisdom on things without thinking and reading..3rd..the whole it aint happening sunshine,tough guy internet thing...grow up ..

as for emotions,ive read both your post and there opinions,thats all..theres no emotion in them,and by you doing the whole dense thing over somebody just saying show where they say something and you cant...

 

you say further provoking me with your insults would be in violation,so where the insults that they put ..oh wait apart from you saying dense which is an insult..you show where ?

 

so as i say..you both have opinions..but well unless you did your homework first and read what you yourself have actually put

Edited February 12, 2010 by HotNess

[FastCargo 412]

This topic is closed.

 

nwdingo/Hotness.

 

It just occurs to me that you are using the same IP.

 

In other words...one person, 2 accounts.

 

That is a violation of site policy.

 

Contact the Admins or find yourselves banned.

 

FC

Edited February 12, 2010 by FastCargo