A sad day.... Aviation is no longer fun...

[OvS 8]

Now, I have been in the aviation field my whole life, since I was a spry little 10 year old, washing Cessnas at Zahn's Airport in Long Island. I know the safety, the rules, the seriousness, all that and more. Believe me, I understand it. I presently work for a major International air carrier, so you can imagine, how much I am exposed to.

 

But this story, and what is going to happen to this employee is simply sad. Gone is the fun and splendor of aviation... the dreams we had as kids... and the simple love of the nature of what it is to be at the airport, and be around the planes. I agree it wasn't the smartest choice for this employee, but he was just having some fun, at no ones cost... the child was obviously heavily supervised and under close observation... and sounded old enough to handle what he was being told. The kid actually did a very good job... I know, I work here, and heard from a few friends around 'the base'.

 

The FAA will not only ruin a family, but more importantly, ruin the enjoyment of what one child was exposed to. That is what has kept Aviation going all these years... the passing of the torch, the bringing in of the child to see the planes, to touch them, to sit in them. And once again... we destroy it with rules that for reasons I understand, but unfortunately have to be imposed. People make planes fly, money simply runs the business of it. But unless you've worked for an airline, or at the airport, you can't understand what it's like to be here. We're simply a different breed of people, most of us deeply rooted by family, or personal interest.

 

If I was questioned by the FAA everytime I offered to show a child around the airplanes I worked on at EWR, I would have been locked-up for sure. But I believe in passing the torch... because other than doing that, there is no one dumb enough in this day and age to seriously want start a career working for an Airline just to start one.

 

OvS

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,587801,00.html

[+Dave 2,322]

With all the negative press the ATC has been getting this was a dumb dumb thing to do. Period. This guy should of known better than to pull soemthing like this when the aviation safety is under the microscope. He chose the wrong time to do it so of course there is be a knee jerk reaction to all this. I can't help but not feel sorry for this guy. It was dumb.

 

 

[jayo 0]

Oh for the love of..........!

The kid was good,like you said OvS,he was being mentored,what the hell else WOULD he say??

When i was 17 i got a job at Caernarvon Airfield in N.Wales,a small place with a flying school and pleasure flights around Mt Snowdon,also regularly visited by RAF Hawks from RAF Valley,Hercs and whoever else happened to be on low level excercises at the time.They either beat up the airfield or practised touch n' go.

I was always up in the tower blagging a go on the comms with the controller,he always told me what to say,i would never have dreamed of saying anything stoopid.The fact that i was there in the first place lends creedence to my passion!

No one ever bollocked me for it,and that included RAF Valley as well as the CAA.

 

Thats harsh man.

[Slartibartfast 153]

I used to work in a Department at what used to be the LATCC at West Drayton... and we used to see the odd school group wandering round under supervision (not where I worked)... It's like anything you need exposure to something to know if your going to do it... I could understand if the kid wasn't supervised but the kid was being supervised its typical of today's society oh my god someone's doing something under supervision but they are too young... lets shove all the people who complain at this onto a desert island and see how long they last... This sort of thing annoy's me...

[+Dave 2,322]

I worked a B-52 and a C-130 when I was 15 at Wurtsmith AFB. I see what the controller was doing but his timing was terrible. Common sense would of been a good player in this case. Not after the news has been looking for any excuse to make the FAA and aviation look unsafe again.

[OvS 8]

Oh for the love of..........!

The kid was good,like you said OvS,he was being mentored,what the hell else WOULD he say??

When i was 17 i got a job at Caernarvon Airfield in N.Wales,a small place with a flying school and pleasure flights around Mt Snowdon,also regularly visited by RAF Hawks from RAF Valley,Hercs and whoever else happened to be on low level excercises at the time.They either beat up the airfield or practised touch n' go.

I was always up in the tower blagging a go on the comms with the controller,he always told me what to say,i would never have dreamed of saying anything stoopid.The fact that i was there in the first place lends creedence to my passion!

No one ever bollocked me for it,and that included RAF Valley as well as the CAA.

 

Thats harsh man.

 

I definately think the press is over dramatizing this, what else is new. The kids was under close supervison, stupid move or not, no harm was done. All this crap about security, breeches... etc...give it a rest. They tell us to go on living our lives as normal, but THIS is normal... bring your kid to work, show them what life/career/exposure is like.

 

This poor SOB is going to be crucified, bad timing or not. Then again, from here on out, it's permanent 'bad timing'. It will never be the same. I really feel sorry for the kids growing up today, and moreso for this kid. All he wanted was to share Dad's job, show him he could do it, see what it was like, be excited... know what it's like to be Daddy... now Daddy will be unemployed... and this poor kid will think it was his fault regardless of what Dad says.

 

OvS

[jayo 0]

Agreed,i think in our modern day retentiveness the kids are being deprived of real life experience.Damn health n safety jobsworths' ruining the fun. Is life experience gonna be relegated to the digital world on grounds of safety issues?

Oh dear here i go......

 

 

[+Dave 2,322]

I definately think the press is over dramatizing this, what else is new. The kids was under close supervison, stupid move or not, no harm was done. All this crap about security, breeches... etc...give it a rest. They tell us to go on living our lives as normal, but THIS is normal... bring your kid to work, show them what life/career/exposure is like.

 

This poor SOB is going to be crucified, bad timing or not. Then again, from here on out, it's permanent 'bad timing'. It will never be the same. I really feel sorry for the kids growing up today, and moreso for this kid. All he wanted was to share Dad's job, show him he could do it, see what it was like, be excited... know what it's like to be Daddy... now Daddy will be unemployed... and this poor kid will think it was his fault regardless of what Dad says.

 

OvS

 

You just validated my point, because he wasn't thinking, now this is going to get shot all over the news and this guys is going to be the new FAA bad boy. He was just being a good father, showing his son what he was did for a living. Now because the media gets ahold of it he is already tried and found guilty. With the pilots that over flew their desitnation because they were sleeping, the crash in Buffalo with the tired and inexperinced pilots, then we had a light plane hit that chopper over the Hudson with the controller chatting it up with is lady friend and not paying attention. Timing is everything. That is my point. This guy ruined that kind of stuff by pulling a stunt like that. Maybe after the FAA, airline industry etc had been off the radar scope for some time then no one would of cared but nope the media are always eager beavers to get another chance to make the aviation industry look like a bunch of boobs.

[OvS 8]

You just validated my point, because he wasn't thinking, now this is going to get shot all over the news and this guys is going to be the new FAA bad boy. He was just being a good father, showing his son what he was did for a living. Now because the media gets ahold of it he is already tried and found guilty. With the pilots that over flew their desitnation because they were sleeping, the crash in Buffalo with the tired and inexperinced pilots, then we had a light plane hit that chopper over the Hudson with the controller chatting it up with is lady friend and not paying attention. Timing is everything. That is my point. This guy ruined that kind of stuff by pulling a stunt like that. Maybe after the FAA, airline industry etc had been off the radar scope for some time then no one would of cared but nope the media are always eager beavers to get another chance to make the aviation industry look like a bunch of boobs.

 

Spot on! At least I have my memories of what it used to be like...

[+ST0RM 145]

OvS, I see your point and how harmless this appears to be. And you are right, we've gotten so far away from "FUN" in anything, we've turned into robots. However, common sense should have prevailed. He could have had the boy up in the tower to watch and listen, then taken him down to the simulator and let him control from there. As Dave said, the FAA is under fire right now, and the timing was just wrong. It's a shame, but we've done this to ourselves and allowed our society to get this way.

[Gr.Viper 131]

With the pilots that over flew their desitnation because they were sleeping, the crash in Buffalo with the tired and inexperinced pilots, then we had a light plane hit that chopper over the Hudson with the controller chatting it up with is lady friend and not paying attention.

At least you didn't have an airliner vaporized in a crash because the pilot gave the controls to his son and got distracted.

[Von Paulus 8]

It's a shame, but we've done this to ourselves and allowed our society to get this way.

 

Quote For Truth. And it can be even worse than already it is. And IMHO it will be.

[Silverbolt 104]

well,i have never worked at the airport or an job related to aviation but IMO that's terrible...just remind me an episode of air disasters at NatGeo...a russian pilot allowed his nephew or son to fly his Civil plane, i think an A-320, the child putted the plane on a spin, and the pilot did not attempted to re take the aircraft controlds for the child.

 

what im saying? you can't play with peoples lives if you are not allowed to do that.

[Gr.Viper 131]

a russian pilot allowed his nephew or son to fly his Civil plane, i think an A-320, the child putted the plane on a spin, and the pilot did not attempted to re take the aircraft controlds for the child

That's the one I was referring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_593

A combination of pilot's son at the controls, a faulty AP and a pilot busy talking to his daughter.

[Silverbolt 104]

That's the one I was referring to http://en.wikipedia....flot_Flight_593

A combination of pilot's son at the controls, a faulty AP and a pilot busy talking to his daughter.

 

oh this one, sorry i didn't read your post.

[UnknownPilot 33]

And you are right, we've gotten so far away from "FUN" in anything, we've turned into robots.

....

It's a shame, but we've done this to ourselves and allowed our society to get this way.

 

Liberalism run amok and at it's finest. The back side of the hand out coin is the "safety" insanity, physical, mental, feelings, everything must be protected - so you can't hear or say something that might offend (anybody), you can't compete (because you might lose - musical chairs now has enough chairs for everyone - and where competition can't be removed entirely, participation trophies are handed out), you can't have fun becaues you might get scraped (we are 1 step away from wrapping kids in bubble wrap and having all bikes manufactured with permanent training wheels on them), parents can not discipline their children (because it might sting, so "time out" is the most you are allowed), and you must be surveiled at all times and are not allowed to defend yourself (as you will be prosecuted if you try, even if the criminal was in your home late at night).

 

It's sickening. There was no safety issue here. No security issue here. It's all invented. The liberal media is always looking for another way to cause panic and tighten gov't controls even more, to show the nation how "dangerous" life is, and how much we all desperately need big brother to look over us 24/7.

 

Whoever reported this to the press should be lynched. I'll even donate the rope.

 

 

 

However, common sense should have prevailed.

 

Agreed, and if that had been the case, it wouldn't be a media sensation. ;)

[ONETINSOLDIER 2]

I grew up in an era devoid of all the rules, regulations, warnings, disclaimers, etc that plague us today, I sat on dads lap and "drove" the family car, went boating without a lifejacket, rode a bike without a helmet, went swimming before waiting an hour after eating. Its a wonder Im alive, huh?

(for those of you that dont know me, thats sarcasm)

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

New York JFK

 

Sorry fellas/fellattes. Maybe "fun" can be had at a small un-controlled airport.

 

There is no "fun" when a taxi or runway accident happens at busy international airports.

 

 

Thanks Gr.Viper for that link ~> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_593

 

 

UKPilot::

There was no safety issue here. No security issue here. It's all invented.

Airport operations have everything to do with safety. Everything example you and others put forth about regulations causing lack of life experience has nothing to do with professional aviation safety.

 

 

 

ONETINSOLDIER:: "...went boating without a lifejacket, rode a bike without a helmet..."

 

Fantastic! You risk your own safety, and nobody elses. That is what freedom is all about.

 

As a real example of what could have been done differently: The controller possibly could have put his kid in for early young flying lessons, which would include communications at smaller airports.

[+GrinchWSLG 24]

Ugh, after a long day at work (and certainly not made any easier by some idiots on the other side of the country IE JFK) I was kinda hoping I wouldn't find this thread here, or at least you guys wouldn't have gone down this path.

 

I'll put it simply then, and maybe argue it tomorrow.

 

They broke the law. They really broke the law. Not a "oh its just fun" kind of broke the law, but a, "this flies in the face of FARs and SOPs and we all know its on a recorded line" kind of broke the law. Every controller at my facility agrees, this guy was an idiot. I don't care if no one was in danger or he was just parroting his dad, its not funny, its not professional. We live and die by our professionalism. If my voice even cracks and a pilot hears that, I can lose his trust in an instant. For all the controllers I know and respect, this is entire situation isn't a laughing matter.

[+GrinchWSLG 24]

Wow, negative rep for making an attempt to explain from someone firsthand why this situation turned out the way it did? Are you that afraid of reality? Whatever. You're welcome.

[+Dave 2,322]

Grinch

 

Bottom line though is you are right. No 2 ways about it.

[OvS 8]

Grinch,

 

I don't think there is a person dumb enough on this planet that would argue that you are wrong. I was simply pointing out that it's sad that after all is said and done, we have to leave our kids wondering what careers are out there, without being able to offer them a taste of it. He should never have let the kid speak, I'm sure he could have gotten by with just having him in there, it would have went un-noticed.

 

Also... all the kid was doing was giving release clearence... I've been on the airways many times during maintence moves at EWR... and I've heard way worse stuff on the mic than what this kid was doing. But still... he didn't belong on the open mic, even though he was obviosuly heavily supervised.

 

But hey... I'm willing to bet that you don't know that most airlines have ground-crews on the headset during push-backs that would have NO idea what to tell the Flight Crew what to do when an engine burst into flames during start-up... or would notice that a tire was flat while making a tight turn... or what hydraulic fluid feels like on your face as it's misting from a cracked pipe in an engine nacelle. But I digress...

 

OvS

[ezlead 42]

Grinch:

No one is questioning controllers professionalism.

Although,as a former professional pilot,I have heard a lot of BS over the air between pilots and controllers.

You want to get a pilot's attention,change the voice over the mike.

Why are warning horns now warning voices.

I'll bet the people in those cockpits took notice real quick when the kid came up on the mike.

I know it was not the time or place,but the kid will never forget it.

As for the controller and his supervisor,IMHO give them a slap on the wrist and send them back to work. A lot worse things have been done by ATC over the years.

People make mistakes,the ATC profession will survive this little encounter.

[+GrinchWSLG 24]

Well I don't think anyone is going to get fired from the controller force for this. Its time on the beach, as thats the precedent set for this sort of stuff.

 

As of yesterday ALL tower visits were stopped. Unfortunate side effect of the media coverage is that the FAA has to do something to appease the public. I'm sure its just temporary though.

 

OvS: Unfortunately he wasn't just reading clearances, he was giving control instructions to aircraft from the local position. These include take off and landing clearance and contacting departure after take off.

 

The controller professionalism I'm question is the controller involved in all this. Understand that we're contantly fighting with the administration to respect us just a little more and to trust us just a little more, in order to combat the constant increase in new rules and regulation over how we control aircraft. The more controllers mess up, the more silly rules we get, the less efficient we can be. This was a case of breaking the rules and getting caught that really wasn't worth it.

[OvS 8]

Well I don't think anyone is going to get fired from the controller force for this. Its time on the beach, as thats the precedent set for this sort of stuff.

 

As of yesterday ALL tower visits were stopped. Unfortunate side effect of the media coverage is that the FAA has to do something to appease the public. I'm sure its just temporary though.

 

OvS: Unfortunately he wasn't just reading clearances, he was giving control instructions to aircraft from the local position. These include take off and landing clearance and contacting departure after take off.

 

The controller professionalism I'm question is the controller involved in all this. Understand that we're contantly fighting with the administration to respect us just a little more and to trust us just a little more, in order to combat the constant increase in new rules and regulation over how we control aircraft. The more controllers mess up, the more silly rules we get, the less efficient we can be. This was a case of breaking the rules and getting caught that really wasn't worth it.

 

True... all of it... and in the mind of some stupid ass computer designer, who has never actually flown a plane, let alone been in the cockpit of one during flight (I have and HOLY CHRIST... that was scary seeing all those jumbos in the air at once)... there is always the automated, non-human computer that can handle it all...

 

TCAS warning... pull up.... whoop whooop... pull up!!!

 

OvS

Edited March 5, 2010 by OvS