TrackIR - Image tearing at monitor edges

[Over50 0]

Just received a TIR5 and I'm in the process of trying to get used to it (speed disorientation with some motion related effects - as in makes you want to barf...) . One thing that's happening in OFF is image tearing at the edges of the monitor when view panning quickly from rear to front. I remember seeing this issue discussed in the forum and as best I can recall some folks came up with a settings work-around but not sure. Problem is I can't find the thread (or threads) and while numerous TIR related info is in the stickied General Hints thread none concern the image tearing. Would greatly appreciate a link to the thread if anyone has it handy..

 

 

[Von Paulus 8]

Force Vsynch ON (vertical Synch) in your graphic card driver. Both ATI and Nvidia have that option.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Von Paulus

[Olham 164]

Have the same problem. My ATI setting for Vertical Refresh is "Always on",

but I still have those jaggies.

Try reducing "Scenery detail", Over50, and the trees in "workshop";

and maybe shadows "off".

 

But if anyone has any idea, whatelse causes those jaggies, you're welcome.

[Over50 0]

Have the same problem. My ATI setting for Vertical Refresh is "Always on",

but I still have those jaggies.

Try reducing "Scenery detail", Over50, and the trees in "workshop";

and maybe shadows "off".

 

But if anyone has any idea, whatelse causes those jaggies, you're welcome.

 

Many thanks Olham. I'm not a regular here (just a casual- but not arcade - simmer) with just occasional posts, unlike yourself as one of the long-timers with posts dating back prior to the OFF forum moving to CombatACE.

 

FWIW I'm currently running my in-game graphics at "3" global but will try lowering the scenery detail in the game setup. As for Vsync I run with it forced on in every game I play with my 24" 1920x1200 resolution monitor. Obviously I was hoping for a more definitive solution but per your comments apparently a "fix" for the tearing was never found. Other than being a bit of an immersion killer I can live with it, but again, I was hoping for a work-around. I'm flying numerous sims including FSX, RoF and the entire IL2 series and OFF is the only game where the image tearing appears with TIR - and having the latest TIR5 offering and driver the problem has to be with the CFS3 to OFF coding overlay. Oh well....

[Over50 0]

Force Vsynch ON (vertical Synch) in your graphic card driver. Both ATI and Nvidia have that option.

 

 

Thank you for taking time to reply as well. As I noted in my reply to Olham I do run OFF with Vsync enabled - which when disabled in OFF results in a drastic FPS increase in my experience running Nvidia GPU's, but that was with my 20" 1600x1200 monitor, not my current 24" at 1920x1200 resolution because of the tearing tendancy during fast action in other games (FP shooter, etc.)

[Duce Lewis 3]

I play with my 24" 1920x1200 resolution monitor.

50, the blue jaggies are usually due to an overtaxed graphics card

Reducing the resolution should help too

[Olham 164]

Over50, depending on your graphic card, maybe you could fly the sim with graphic settings varied like this:

 

aircraft: 5

terrain detail: 3

scenery detail: 2

effects detail: 5 (or lower)

clouds: 5 (or lower)

 

Clouds don't seem to eat frames. It seems mainly the trees density in "Workshop",

maybe the shadows, and "Scenery detail" slider.

 

Duce could be right there - a lower resolution might help, too.

[Over50 0]

Over50, depending on your graphic card, maybe you could fly the sim with graphic settings varied like this:

 

aircraft: 5

terrain detail: 3

scenery detail: 2

effects detail: 5 (or lower)

clouds: 5 (or lower)

 

Clouds don't seem to eat frames. It seems mainly the trees density in "Workshop",

maybe the shadows, and "Scenery detail" slider.

 

Duce could be right there - a lower resolution might help, too.

 

With a monitor native resolution of 1920x1200 I suspect reducing it to 1600x1200 would degrade the image quality but I'll give it a try along with your suggested eye candy settings (again I'm running at a global "3" setting). As for my GPU's, each card is the 896MB variety and 216 shaders - and factory overclocked as well - but this said I am aware OFF doesn't support true SLI (was down this path months ago in another thread).

[Over50 0]

50, the blue jaggies are usually due to an overtaxed graphics card

Reducing the resolution should help too

 

Just to mention, the monitor edge "jaggies" I'm seeing when panning is only an issue with OFF and no other flight sims (FSX, IIL2 series and Rise of Flight) or FPS shooters (such as Battlefield Bad Company 2, Crysis, Far Cry 2, etc.) which are a heck of a lot more demanding in terms of changing graphics content and complexity - and I run those games at near to max graphics settings w/o problems with my current rig (in my sig).

Edited May 10, 2010 by Over50

[Winston DoRight 3]

It only occurs when the sky color is blue. You'll never see it when the sky is grey or at night. This is also true in CFS3 and all the mods (ETO, PTO, and MAW). Not a video card lacking issue or it would also happen when the sky color was grey or dark? I have 896mb GTX 260's and also have seen this in 1.7gb GTX 285's. Maybe we need a different shade of blue for a clear sunny day?

[catch 81]

It's a CFS3 thing and more prevelant on bright days less so on gloomy days. The workaround is to turn your head very slowly and live with it.

[Duce Lewis 3]

I do recall some folks stating they stopped getting the blue jaggies when they upgraded graphics cards

But it would depend on your whole setup, settings, etc.

 

It's a CFS3 thing and more prevelant on bright days less so on gloomy days.

That makes sense

Bright days will have more shadows & glare

[almccoyjr 7]

One other "thing" you can try is different speed settings in the TIR5 software.

 

Default setting is 1, try taking it down to .8

 

Usually smoothing at 30 is fine, but you may also want to try a setting of 25-27.

 

The TIR5 has better physical resolution than the 4 model and the software capitalizes on that. I think the default speed of 1 may be to high, IMO.

 

plug_nickel (Al)

[Over50 0]

Many thanks to all for the responses. With OFF being the only game I'm seeing this I'll just have to modify my panning rate accordingly and/or live with it as has been noted.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Over50

[Over50 0]

One other "thing" you can try is different speed settings in the TIR5 software.

 

Default setting is 1, try taking it down to .8

 

Usually smoothing at 30 is fine, but you may also want to try a setting of 25-27.

 

The TIR5 has better physical resolution than the 4 model and the software capitalizes on that. I think the default speed of 1 may be to high, IMO.

 

plug_nickel (Al)

 

In my experience the default "1" speed equates to a view panning range of (ballpark) 60 degrees left or right from center which sort of defeats the whole premise of being able to sufficiently scan without excessive head movement. And the "speed" verbiage is misleading in that when the pan rate is increased with a higher "speed" setting so is the total panning view range relative to smaller actual head movement which is self defeating when trying to establish a panning range separate from the speed of the panning. As for setting "smoothing" to around 30, I've done that and higher trying to slow the rate of panning. Enabling "Precision" (F7) also provides a quick in-game option to slow/smooth the pan rate. What would be ideal is (3) view options: Speed of panning, Total Range of panning, and Smoothing the pan rate speed rate.

 

All said, while TIR's 6DOF is a definite plus (aside from the orientation and potential nausea issues), it really needs IMO an added mix of programmed quick view joystick or keyboard options given the limitations of a 2 dimensional computer display.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Over50

[Olham 164]

Over50, the head movement required for a check-six is set up by "true head angle",

I think. You can reduce or increase the "true head angle" curve in the diagram to

get it right (by moving the dots further out or in; not up and down).

 

I am not sure right now, but changing "Speed" should not change that curve.

I'll check it.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Olham

[Over50 0]

Over50, the head movement required for a check-six is set up by "true head angle",

I think. You can reduce or increase the "true head angle" curve in the diagram to

get it right (by moving the dots further out or in; not up and down).

 

I am not sure right now, but changing "Speed" should not change that curve.

I'll check it.

 

Unfortunately this is what's happening which may be relative to the "improved sensitivity" of TIR5 vs earlier versions. I do agree the 6DOF ability of TIR is a plus when in a dogfight but it just now occured to me as I write that the TIR head zoom ability may be what's causing my motion nausea tendency and disorientation. Point being, when flying air combat in the IL2 games for example with TIR where the game only supports up, down, left and right range of head movement I don't experience the disorientation or nausea feeling. But with the TIR zoom view factored in when flying OFF when turning my head in tandem with my prescription bifocal strength the rotational (head movement) relative to the changing arc distance to the monitor screen may be exagerating the zoom effect, thus the nausea feeling tendancy. Hmmmmm.....will have to give this some more thought.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Over50

[Olham 164]

Okay, I understand now. Well, I don't wear such glasses, but I can say, that during the first

missions I flew, I felt quite uncomfortable with all the view changing of TIR. It took me some

time to get used to it.

It might feel better in a "heavy" energy fighter like the Albatros or the SPAD. In the very agile

planes, it was worst for me - too much movement.

[almccoyjr 7]

The speed setting has nothing to do with the physical viewing angles or perspective. It has to do with responsiveness, or how fast the software interprets physical movement and translates that input into pov location on the screen.

 

In electrical terms, think of the speed setting as gain. It affects all three axes simultaneously. The higher the speed setting, the faster the response. How you have your control points setup, their spacing and their "angle" (straight line or curving up or down)introduces acceleration which will be additive the overall response. As this movement and its interpretation is translated, the redraw between the vc and the TIR interact and this will cause tearing.

 

I have added extra control points to the axes allowing me to really fine tune both the acceleration of panning and the degree of view. I personally don't like the act of physically looking over my shoulder, so I've limited the pov to about 4:30. When I want to see what's behind/left or right of me, I use the castle switch on my Cougar for that function.

 

About 5 cents worth.

 

plug_nickel (Al)

[Over50 0]

The speed setting has nothing to do with the physical viewing angles or perspective. It has to do with responsiveness, or how fast the software interprets physical movement and translates that input into pov location on the screen.

 

I have added extra control points to the axes allowing me to really fine tune both the acceleration of panning and the degree of view. I personally don't like the act of physically looking over my shoulder, so I've limited the pov to about 4:30. When I want to see what's behind/left or right of me, I use the castle switch on my Cougar for that function.

 

About 5 cents worth.

 

plug_nickel (Al)

 

 

Thanks for taking time to reply. In no way meant to be argumentative, but what I'm seeing when I increase the Speed setting with the TIR 5 (and yes I've selected the TrackClip setup option) so does the panning range and with shorter physical head movement needed. Conversely, decreasing the Speed setting reduces the panning range and rate of change but requires a greater physical head movement to view from the right to left extremes (as when scanning for enemy aircraft for example). The TIR 5 default Speed setting is (1) which equates to a (ballpark) 60 degree range of view left or right from center/forward. And the default Smoothing setting is (10). If I enable the "Precision" (F7) option during a game it does slow the panning rate - but in a manner where the view change lags my head movement which just about kills the ability to stay focused on an enemy during a furball. All of the above in tandem with the strength of my prescription glasses exacerbates the motion disorientation along with the visual related nausea feeling.

 

You mention adding extra control points to the axies. As of yet I haven't found how to do this in the TIR5 setup manual. I assume you've then created a profile with the settings.

 

Let's just say after almost a year of sitting on the fence about trying TIR (and looking at the myriad YouTube examples) my expectations haven't meshed with the reality of actual use so far. I'll keep trying to find a workable - or better put liveable compromise over the next couple of weeks with an eye on the 30 day return for refund window. It may well be my difficulty with TIR is attributible to the combination of the physical aspects (vision, reaction time, etc.) of being on the short side of 71 years old .....

Edited May 11, 2010 by Over50

[almccoyjr 7]

You mention adding extra control points to the axies. As of yet I haven't found how to do this in the TIR5 setup manual. I assume you've then created a profile with the settings.

 

Let's just say after almost a year of sitting on the fence about trying TIR (and looking at the myriad YouTube examples) my expectations haven't meshed with the reality of actual use so far. I'll keep trying to find a workable - or better put liveable compromise over the next couple of weeks with an eye on the 30 day return for refund window. It may well be my difficulty with TIR is attributible to the combination of the physical aspects (vision, reaction time, etc.) of being on the short side of 71 years old .....

The control points are added by modifying the xml file. I have five additional points so that I can have another deadzone when viewing F-16 MFD's and the A-10's MFD when selecting a target for the maverick. There's a thread from another mate on the site that added two more control points and he posted the profile. I'll see if I can find it. With mine, you have to expand the view completely in order to see all of the points and their locations. Not as easy to tweak or setup.

 

Glasses...lol...I just stopped using them when I fly. Thank goodness for 24" flat panel glass.

 

plug_nickel (Al)

[Duce Lewis 3]

I do agree the 6DOF ability of TIR is a plus when in a dogfight but it just now occured to me as I write that the TIR head zoom ability may be what's causing my motion nausea tendency and disorientation. Point being, when flying air combat in the IL2 games for example with TIR where the game only supports up, down, left and right range of head movement I don't experience the disorientation or nausea feeling.

50, I believe you can turn any of the 6 movement functions off

btw. cfs3 only supports 5 DOF

There is no Roll Function

 

Hope you get this sorted

 

HTH,

[Over50 0]

50, I believe you can turn any of the 6 movement functions off

btw. cfs3 only supports 5 DOF

There is no Roll Function

 

Hope you get this sorted

 

HTH,

 

Yeah, I've toyed with the idea of disbling one more of the axies. But after reverting to the default (1) Speed setting per the NaturalPoint rep's recommendation in tandem with a 25 smoothing setting it's become (the disorientation and accompanying feeling of slight nausea) a heck of lot less noticeable. While not an accepted "true" combat flight sim practice I'm using the target lock to help keep my relative positioning in focus (oriented in other words) while turning the aircraft to where the enemy appears in the range of the TIR view (ballpark about 80 degrees from center/forward) and from that point it's full TIR. Plus, with the TIR speed set to (1) and the smoothing to 25 the head motion is more fluid which helps, yet still allows doing a rapid head swing to the right or left for an occasional quick look to the rear as an alternative to the target lock. Sometimes less is better and in my case this appears to be the "fix" so to speak.

 

Just to mention, I've also been flying the current Wings of Prey: WW2 Air Combat and have to admit TIR really shows it's benefit when the action is forward of the wings. Being able to stay keyed on the tail of a spining, weaving, diving 109 without using the joystick hatswitch really makes the game immersive. And like OFF, I'm using the target lock to stay oriented until I can swing my plane into the TIR view span at the default settings. Like most things in life compromise is often a necessary evil and with respect to TIR and my simming that means using the target lock in tandem. Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it... (smile)...

Edited May 13, 2010 by Over50

[Hellshade 110]

It only occurs when the sky color is blue. You'll never see it when the sky is grey or at night. This is also true in CFS3 and all the mods (ETO, PTO, and MAW). Not a video card lacking issue or it would also happen when the sky color was grey or dark? I have 896mb GTX 260's and also have seen this in 1.7gb GTX 285's. Maybe we need a different shade of blue for a clear sunny day?

 

 

I am having EXACTLY this problem and I have a GTX280 1GB video card. It doesn't happen on gloomy days. Only when there is blue in the sky. Someone said they don't have this issue at all. Any chance they could share their Nvidia & TrackIR settings?

 

Hellshade

[Tamper 9]

I am having EXACTLY this problem and I have a GTX280 1GB video card. It doesn't happen on gloomy days. Only when there is blue in the sky. Someone said they don't have this issue at all. Any chance they could share their Nvidia & TrackIR settings?

 

Hellshade

 

 

I think what is being noticed is a (relatively bright) color which contrasts with the ground - the 'sky blue' - stands out more. I believe the triangles are still there, just that you don't notice them. For what it's worth, all shades of color are just another number to a PC - so, I'd find it a stretch if only one color somehow magically causes this effect but no others do.

 

It seems I also recall this was mentioned before, that the light blue color stands out more against a dark background.

 

Also, again for what it's worth, I believe the appearance of these triangles (of any sort or shade) is caused by the mass media storage subsystem's (hard drive) inability to retrieve textures quickly enough for them to be smoothly displayed. There seems to be a lot to corroborate this, such as:

 

- Most who report this say they have no such issues in other games

- Even those with 'killer' video cards still experience this (hinting that niether GPU power or huge amounts of graphics memory is enough; therefore not a problem with storing or handling the textures local to the graphics card)

- (the clincher, for me at least) When I finally put Solid State Drives in my machine, all the stutters and triangles vanished, period.

 

It also seems I've seen at least one other person here with a similar experience, for what it's worth.

 

My $.02