Serves the Welsh right

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

For having their own daft language

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7702913.stm

[+Dave 2,322]

Oh that's rich.

[+Nightshade/PR 7,837]

Hilarious

[Slartibartfast 153]

An oldie but a goody...

[MaverickMike 10]

hehehe thats a good one. I dont live very far from Swansea, and yes I do speak the lingo

[GwynO 16]

The twin message sign in GB, makes as much sense as the English/Spanish one in the States. Friggem, lettem learn English

 

With a pretty big difference Uncleal, the Welsh were there first, so you'd think the English would learn the lingo, but instead they tried very hard to eliminate it completely so having double written signs is much more than about being practical, it's a celebration that after so many years that we are still here even if hardly anyone has heard of us and most people seem to think that England = UK and Celtic countries are just some deviation of English. We were there first, our language was there first, and we did learn English but we sure as hell won't abandon our language as it's about the only thing left we have that's still ours.

 

Those mistakes are ridiculous, and all too often, one sign said in English for cyclists to dismount here, but in Welsh said something about bladder weakness! Makes me wonder if some aren't done on purpose as a kind of fifth column action by resentful monoglot officials as I don't know of a single council office in Wales where there isn't at least someone with Welsh as their first language, then again it was in the south and that region was much more heavily colonised during the industrial revolution.

[shotdown 8]

With a pretty big difference Uncleal, the Welsh were there first

 

No difference at all. The spanish (and later mexicans) were there first too. Just be thankful it's in both languages instead of welsh only like here (of course, no welsh here, but some spanish regional languages)

Edited June 1, 2010 by shotdown

[GwynO 16]

No difference at all. The spanish (and later mexicans) were there first too. Just be thankful it's in both languages instead of welsh only like here (of course, no welsh here, but some spanish regional languages)

 

The comparison with North America would make the Welsh more like the Native Americans if anyone, as they are descendants of a largely peaceful assimilation of Bronze age and Iron age people, no evidence of large scale violent conquest from the Celtic settlement of Britain has ever been found with most scholars proposing the theory that it was foremost a two way spread of ideas, technology, language and people. Compare that with all the people who came after and see how total conquest was central to them, the Romans, the Saxons, the Normans, they all wanted us to stop being different and be what they wanted us to be instead, believe their religions of choice, speak their language, adopt their law and customs. Maybe it's because by our different identity we remind later arrivals that they were uninvited and this might be an understandably uncomfortable thought, but it's the truth and the Welsh aren't going to pretend that we invited the whole world to come and take our land, claim it as theirs and rule over us for hundreds of years! We didn't invite that. But what the hey, I can, as most Welsh people, live with the situation so long as we get respect, that's all we ask for is a bit of respect, I'm not calling for English people to be removed, or for their language to be banned, it's not the current generation's fault for the crimes of the past.. but it is their duty to acknowledge the past for what it was and to respect our identity, language, and people.

 

I'm aware of the regional languages in the Iberian peninsula as well, and it is very similar to the British Isles in so many ways because all across what later became Spain and Portugal there lived a mixture of Celtic and other people in remarkable tolerance of each other. The Basque language for example, cannot be traced to any other known language either spoken or extinct, it is entirely unique and elements could date as far back as the the Neanderthal population, absolutely fascinating that this language survived side by side with later Celtic languages but it did. The Roman, Latin influence on Iberia came to dominate, but the regional identities and languages still remain. I don't for one minute support the heavy handed barbarity that groups like ETA or the IRA use to further their ideas about nationalism, but that is because they are just as bad as the actions of the past that pushed the Celtic people into ever smaller and dominated populations, in this instance two wrongs does not make a right, but nothing can take away the right of a people to speak their language and have their identity.

 

In the bad old days of colonialism, all across the world various groups of people tried to "assimilate" their newly conquered lands. Native religions were restricted, native customs and hierarchy restricted, clothing modified, land ownership and usage re modelled, education controlled, and language separated into private (native) and public (conqueror). When resistance was heavy, a much more pronounced form of ethnic cleansing was to ban all aspects of the native identity even in private, but as we can see, luckily this failed for the Welsh people, Native Americans, Aborigines, and Iberians as well as others because we are still here to say "we survived". When my grandfather went to school in the 1920s and 1930s, his schooling was very different from his grandfather before him because only in 1888 did the British government see to banning the use of the "Welsh not" in schools. This was a piece of wood, or lead on a string with the letters WN written on it, any child caught speaking Welsh in school would have this instrument of shame strung around their neck and it would stay there until the next child had been caught speaking Welsh, then the last child to be wearing the "Not" at the end of the school day would receive a heavy lashing. So maybe you can see why my grandfather's generation taught me the importance of never, ever, ever forgetting my language and identity? This experience did not stop him from fighting in the Second World War for the British Army, he remained a proud supporter of Britain his entire life as do I. However, the past should not be erased or denied just because it might be uncomfortable for the descendants of victors, at the same time there is no need to keep beating people up about it or use it as an excuse for lazy behaviour and victim mentality, all that's needed is for the story to be heard and for people to be understood and respected.

 

\rant

Edited June 1, 2010 by GwynO

[Capitaine Vengeur 263]

When my grandfather went to school in the 1920s and 1930s, his schooling was very different from his grandfather before him because only in 1888 did the British government see to banning the use of the "Welsh not" in schools. This was a piece of wood, or lead on a string with the letters WN written on it, any child caught speaking Welsh in school would have this instrument of shame strung around their neck and it would stay there until the next child had been caught speaking Welsh, then the last child to be wearing the "Not" at the end of the school day would receive a heavy lashing.

\rant

Speaking about Celts, that was quite the same way the French Republic used towards the Bretons of Brittany. By the end of 19th Century, French was only a optional few used second langage to most rural Bretons, and the new Republic wanted to achieve national unity through the langage. Many former pupils still remember of the warning displayed in schools until about mid-20th Century, and which is still colloquial in French: "It's forbidden to spit and to speak Breton". As for Wales, lashing was the common sanction. The langage has kept many defenders, and nowadays, there are many recognized schools where teachings are in Breton (named diwan schools).

[GwynO 16]

Speaking about Celts, that was quite the same way the French Republic used towards the Bretons of Brittany. By the end of 19th Century, French was only a optional few used second langage to most rural Bretons, and the new Republic wanted to achieve national unity through the langage. Many former pupils still remember of the warning displayed in schools until about mid-20th Century, and which is still colloquial in French: "It's forbidden to spit and to speak Breton". As for Wales, lashing was the common sanction. The langage has kept many defenders, and nowadays, there are many recognized schools where teachings are in Breton (named diwan schools).

 

Of course! Where would Gaul be without their Celtic peoples? One of the nicest things for me about working in a school in Cornwall was meeting a Breton girl who was helping out to teach French and finding just how similar Breton is to Welsh and Cornish! In fact, Breton in some ways was even closer to Welsh, especially pronunciation. Counting one to 10 for example, is almost identical between the three languages, but so is how we treat numbers in sets of 20 and the special place of 15, so the number 17 is translated as 2 and 15, 16 as one and 15, 40 becomes 2 20s and so on. The colours, days of the week, months of the year, weather words and so much more are virtually identical. She was telling me how the experience in France is very bad for Breton people as they are bullied by other kids in schools and generally thought of as being unpatriotic nuisance by the majority of people. It's everywhere the same for Celtic people it seems. But on the positive side, again, the Breton people and language survived! I heard that there were many, many regional languages in France, but that most of these are now severely restricted. Do they still speak Alsatian, Occitan, Catalan, Gallo and so many others? My fear is that these languages as well as the people will become extinct and the history wiped under the carpet so that future generations grow up thinking how wonderful the old Empire must have been to get everyone speaking the same language all so peacefully, all because everyone agreed to it, an no one was ever hurt.

Edited June 1, 2010 by GwynO

[Capitaine Vengeur 263]

Of course! Where would Gaul be without their Celtic peoples? One of the nicest things for me about working in a school in Cornwall was meeting a Breton girl who was helping out to teach French and finding just how similar Breton is to Welsh and Cornish! In fact, Breton in some ways was even closer to Welsh, especially pronunciation. Counting one to 10 for example, is almost identical between the three languages, but so is how we treat numbers in sets of 20 and the special place of 15, so the number 17 is translated as 2 and 15, 16 as one and 15, 40 becomes 2 20s and so on. The colours, days of the week, months of the year, weather words and so much more are virtually identical. She was telling me how the experience in France is very bad for Breton people as they are bullied by other kids in schools and generally thought of as being unpatriotic nuisance by the majority of people. It's everywhere the same for Celtic people it seems. But on the positive side, again, the Breton people and language survived! I heard that there were many, many regional languages in France, but that most of these are now severely restricted. Do they still speak Alsatian, Occitan, Catalan, Gallo and so many others? My fear is that these languages as well as the people will become extinct and the history wiped under the carpet so that future generations grow up thinking how wonderful the old Empire must have been to get everyone speaking the same language all so peacefully, all because everyone agreed to it, an no one was ever hurt.

You've learnt me more about inter-connections between major Celtic languages than my Breton friends had! I've read many things about the Republic seeking "progress" at all costs against Breton and other regional traditions (quotes from an article from a die-hard Republican "journalist" about the Bretons, ending 19th Century: "Those dark Helots, those niggers of France...", "The Breton doesn't think, he prays, and by that way, falls into the most slavish abjection...", and so on ad nauseam). Fortunately, many langages were strong enough to resist, especially Catalan and Basque (thanks to resistance on both sides of the French-Spanish border), Corsican (strong identity, never bully a Corsican, he could be able even to march on Moscow), and Alsacian (resisted to attempts of assimilation by one French Republic and two German Reiches; brave enough).

[Gr.Viper 131]

(strong identity, never bully a Corsican, he could be able even to march on Moscow)

Folk remedy: ignore them, then burn down the city they're staying in the middle of winter. They don't like that. To strengthen the effect make sure the subject retreats following the same road they completely pillaged during the invasion. Works 100% of the time.

[GwynO 16]

You've learnt me more about inter-connections between major Celtic languages than my Breton friends had! I've read many things about the Republic seeking "progress" at all costs against Breton and other regional traditions (quotes from an article from a die-hard Republican "journalist" about the Bretons, ending 19th Century: "Those dark Helots, those niggers of France...", "The Breton doesn't think, he prays, and by that way, falls into the most slavish abjection...", and so on ad nauseam). Fortunately, many langages were strong enough to resist, especially Catalan and Basque (thanks to resistance on both sides of the French-Spanish border), Corsican (strong identity, never bully a Corsican, he could be able even to march on Moscow), and Alsacian (resisted to attempts of assimilation by one French Republic and two German Reiches; brave enough).

 

Well if there's one thing about Celts, it's bravery! Bravery and staying power! And if you've seen some of the women in Celtic countries, you'll see why those two things are essential for anyone planning to marry one! I sometimes wonder if the Greeks have the same because that's what my partner is and she's just as tough as any Celtic warrior woman, although I have heard many good things about the Corsicans too, famous fighters and lovers!

 

The "nigger of France" quote pretty much sums up how the Celts have been discussed in the past, it used to be common in the UK to have signs on houses to rent saying "No dogs, no blacks, no Irish" and that was only 50 years ago!

 

I like the folk remedy Gr.Viper, the only trouble when the invaders come in boats is you've nowhere to push them back to but the sea, and we wouldn't have them drown because they are quite a nice bunch at times and some very good characters amongst them, there's bound to be friction when new kids move into the neighbourhood, but with a bit of mutual respect on both sides things get sorted out for the better, for example, I can't think of any people more friendly and in common with Welsh people than the people of Liverpool, Merseyside and the Wirral, except maybe the Irish. But if it was 1600 years ago, then I would have been right there on the east coast that became England with a pitchfork ready to set some ground rules for the new visitors to abide by! Such as treat others as you wish to be treated yourself, don't steal anyone's land, and don't invite your whole family from over the water to come join you because we'll end up overcrowded and create ghettos. Now what does that remind me of?

Edited June 1, 2010 by GwynO

[+Piecemeal 450]

I can't think of any people more friendly and in common with Welsh people than the people of Liverpool, Merseyside and the Wirral, except maybe the Irish.

 

 

 

My Welsh mate Roy might disagree with you on that one. Except of course if we're in the pub during an Ireland/Wales rugby match

Edited June 3, 2010 by Piecemeal