Need some advice how to survive ground attack missions, please

[vonOben 55]

Hi

 

Those ground attack missions has been a certain death so far for my pilots, and that has been early 1916 flying as a German pilot.

 

I usually start around 2-3000 m and build up a lot of speed on the dive against the target, trying to zigzag on the way down, but before I fire I stop zigzag to be able to aim.

 

When I get close to the ground so my machine guns can do their job the AA fire is off-course also doing it’s job and is quite accurate and usually damage my aircraft so it gets uncontrollable so I crash and die.

 

 

How do you guys attack ground objects like airfields and rail yards?

 

I’ve read hear at the forum that ground attack missions are unhistorical for German fighter, is that true?

 

S!

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Truth be told vonOben, ground attacks by fighter/scout aircraft on either side of the mud early in the war was pretty unlikely. Those were jobs usually left to the two-seater recce/bomber types. However, the best way I have found of surviving one of those missions, (short of coming down sick and bowing out of the party altogether), is to drop down to the deck near the target, but in a quiet area. Then approach NOE and make a strafing pass or two, turn tail, and head PDQ back for camp, again going "nape of earth".

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

.

[Winston DoRight 3]

ONE pass only, from low altitude. Get out quickly and take stock of your condition. If you're damage is light count your blessings, claw for altitude and head for home.

[Slartibartfast 153]

I usually fly a Sopwith Strutter 1/2 and my usual plan is one pass haul ass... normally when I spot the target I start a shallow dive from around 12000ft steepening the dive as we go and let loose with the gun (if I forgot the bombs as I sometimes do the mess do's these days are getting rowdier... ) then keep flying in the same direction of the dive at around 200ft give or take fly for about 5 miles and then turn around and go home... So far thats not failed me though the dogfighting with multiple eindeckers that come screaming at me from 15000ft normally ruin my pilots day...

[almccoyjr 7]

I pretty much follow the same tactics as RAF_Louvert and I also sit on a helmut for added protection.

 

plug_nickel

[Check Six 2]

I've had great success flying Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter against rail yards. Generally, you are given command of the flight on these missions. My approach is to arm with bombs and keep your flight close to you by applying the command to form up on you about 1-2Km's out. I line myself up on the rail line and approach along the rails. I dive sharply, but not as steep as a dive bomber, and after you have begun your dive attack, give the order for your flight to attack as well.

 

Don't shoot off your machine guns at boxes, come in low over the train, and release your bombs just as you pass the rear caboose (depending on the length of the train of course). STAY LOW. No more than 100 feet, fly out about 300-400 metres. By then your wingmen will be engaged in their attacks. Turn and approach along the line again, staying low. You'll be able to watch your wingmen attack if you're lucky. If it appears as if you've done enough damage, turn away and head for home. For pity's sake, don't overfly the station to get home, fly around it. If you feel they haven't done a good enough job, I find that the ground gunners are concentrating on your flight at that time, so I can come in low and give them one good long strafing run. After that, stay low again until 1 Km out, then climb for all you're worth, command your flight to join you, and keep a sharp eye out for enemy scouts.

 

I haven't yet been shot down using this method. I think it might be that I'm a little way ahead of my flight as I begin my attack, and I don't shoot until I've released my ordnance, and maybe on the second pass if required.

 

Given that you aren't given the option of carrying ordnance as a German, I'd try to follow that method and not fire until the last split second. As both you and your flight aren't carrying ordnance, it's doubtful that you'd do much damage just with your spandaus, so I would begin my dive, count to three, order my flight to attack, wait till the last second, make one long strafing pass, then get the hell out of there staying as low as possible fopr a Km or so, then climb as high asyou can and hightail it home.

 

Best of luck.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Check Six

[Duce Lewis 3]

vonOben, I approach from a high altitude, out of MG range

Pick a target on the far edge of the airfield or railyard

Dive steeply, hit your target, then pull out very low

Break into a 90 Deg turn while pulling out, keeping the nose at or below the horizon

Then jink like mad til the MG's stop firing

Climb in a wide circle and repeat the process but usually only 2 passes maximum

 

By overflying the target before the attack, you break into "clean" space away from the gunners

Higher dive speed aslo means that you exit the danger zone faster too

90 Deg Turn forces the gunners to re-compute their aim just when you're most vulnerable

Edited June 1, 2010 by Duce Lewis

[Olham 164]

VonOben, check your "workshop" settings.

Set ground fire to "Easy ground gunnery".

That should help. Flak wasn't too deadly earlier in the war.

But if you dive onto a railyard with lots of machine gun positions,

it becomes more likely that you will collect hits.

[Hasse Wind 46]

I only fly ground attack missions if I'm serving in a squadron that historically had such missions and was equipped to do so with suitable aircraft. If I'm in a fighter unit, I just ignore those mission types. The Nupe is no P-47 or Typhoon, no matter how powerful its rockets are.

 

For P4, I hope we'll see some real ground attack squadrons - a German Schlachtflieger career would be something special.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Hasse Wind

[Olham 164]

H W: For P4, I hope we'll see some real ground attack squadrons - a German Schlachtflieger career would be something special.

 

Agreed!

And SchuSta - Schutzstaffeln - to escort and protect recon craft; maybe also in two-seaters like the Roland "Walfisch" !

[vonOben 55]

Hi guys

 

Thanks a lot for all your advises!

Much appreciated!

 

S!

 

vonOben

 

 

[Bullethead 12]

BH's Tips for Surviving Ground Attack Missions, listed in order of increasing amounts of sense of duty and decreasing amounts of sanity.

 

NOTE: This is ONLY if you're in a non-DH5 fighter squadron. If you're in a DH-5 squadron, or a 2-seater squadron, you volunteered for such missions so quit complaining. Besides, the DH5 is a flying tank so survival really isn't a problem. But if you're in a regular fighter squadron, then ground attack is pretty much a VIP backstage pass to the Create New Pilot screen . Anyway, here's the list:

 

1. Call in Sick

Somehow, you always seem to have a massive hangover whenever ground attack missions come up in the morning, or are passed out drunk from the morning's close call when they come up in the afternoon. Manually advance time and see what the Mission Gods give you next.

 

2. Gaff it Off

Take off, form up, and leave the airfield on the specified heading. But as soon as you're out of sight, head off in a different direction, get into a fight, and return to base for want of ammo or too much damage.

 

3. Choose an Impossible Mission

Tell the briefing officer that this target is too easy and you want something for a truly zealous pilot. Keep hitting the Alternate Target button until you get one about 500 miles away, preferrably way north or south of your location so most of the flight is on your side of the lines. Then actually attempt to do it, content in the knowledge that the odds of you ever getting there are minute. You'll almost certainly get into a fight long before you get 1/2way there, after which you can return home with full honors. If you reach the front without a fight, patrol up and down it until you get into a fight or need to RTB for fuel. If you neither reach the target nor get in a fight, claim that the target was hidden under a cloud.

 

4. Let A Flight Have the Glory

Hit the Alternate Target button until you get a target not too far away nor very far across the lines. Before takeoff, tell the ace leading A Flight that you'll be top cover for him. Take the minimum amount of fuel for the trip and no ordnance, then stay safely above the flak while A Flight eats the flak.

 

5. Stay High

Similar to #4 but you make diving passes at the target, starting from about 5000 feet and pulling out as soon as you see tracers coming up, or at 2000 feet, whichever comes first. Divebomb if you have any, shoot if you feel like it, but don't do more than 3 or 4 passes, then run like Hell.

 

6. Actually Do the Mission

See advice given above by others. Or fly a DH5.

[themightysrc 5]

Sound advice there BH - I can empathise with it.

 

My own preferred option is to ensure that I've had a beer prior to take-off. Once you're approaching the target, and therefore can count your mortality in minutes (on one hand), bank sharply to port and wave your fist violently at the screen showing the automatic death trap below, bellowing these words as loudly as you can:

 

"You seriously think I'm going to attack that you mad f***ers?!?!!! Get f***ed!!!!"

 

Then attempt to fly home.

 

Of course, if you're like me, you'll get shot down anyway.

 

But it is cathartic, somehow.

 

HTH,

Si

[Guest British_eh]

Hi there,

It seems that perhaps "BULLETHEAD" has the Italian Bomber Pilot Handbook :)

The British method has been described before, TLAR - Than Looks About Right.........

New posting with the Sop Strutter pilot flight manual coming :)

Cheers,

British_eh

[Bullethead 12]

It seems that perhaps "BULLETHEAD" has the Italian Bomber Pilot Handbook :)

 

That's an insult to the Itees, whose bad rap is mostly the product of wartime efforts to hide the existence of codebreaking.

 

As I said above, my advice was for non-DH5 fighter jocks. If you're in a 2-seater, you know you'll be doing a fair amount of ground attack as part of the job, but you took the job anyway, so deal with it .

 

The main thing I've found in ground attack missions is that unless you surprise the target, things are unlikely to end well. You're usually leading the charge, often by several thousand yards, so if the gunners are alert, every one of them will concentrate on you at the beginning. If you hear the air raid siren start before you're directly over the target, you can be pretty sure of getting the chop. And if it starts when you're overhead, you're still in for a rough time until your wingmen come into range.

 

The earlier in the war you are, the easier it is to surprise targets. As time goes on, however, there are more planes in the sky, so the odds are greater of some friendly flight en route elsewhere accidentally alerting your target before you even get there. Also, the later in the war, the more intense is the ground fire, making the consequences of not achieve surprise even grimmer. So from no later than the start of 1918, I don't recommend doing any strafing at all, unless you're in a Camel squadron which did a lot of that by then. If you can't carry ordnance, don't do the mission. And if you've got bombs, don't drop them below 2000 feet.

[Olham 164]

Well, we just had a railyard attack with Jasta 6 (see "Krauts vs Crumpets" thread),

and as it was a brandnew pilot with nothing to loose, I took on the mission.

 

I made three strafing runs, diving in in an angle of ca. 30°. Before the dive, I always

zoom in two notches, as if I crouch right behind the gun sights. All targets become a

bit larger. I could blow up some huge ammo crates and a truck.

The defensive MG fire I only noticed when flying away from the target. I watch the

traces and zigzag in the best possible ways. Didn't collect a single round!

But I don't do such attacks with some victories and hours piled. The chance to get

hit and at least become a POW are just too big.

[Guest British_eh]

Hi there,

You're right BULLLETHEAD, it was just a silly notion of some Italian films I have seen where they are very candid about poking fun at themselves. Goodness knows the Brits have much to be reflective on for some of our rather preposterous idea's and plans!

British_eh

PS In the upcoming SIA Pilot Flight Manual the very important point you bring up about ensuring your Wingmen stay with you is addressed.

[Waldemar Kurtz 1]

scope out the target first. look for concentrations of enemy machine guns, anti-aicraft artillery, things of that nature.

 

I try to set my attacks to move from "dangerous" to "safe" areas. I'll use a hill-side or a forest to mask my path of departure.

 

I start up from about 5-6000 ft and descend towards the target as fast as I can. I try to level out at speeds of 120 mph or more before I start my attack.

 

I only use one method of attack per pass. if you're dropping bombs you need to fly straight and level. if you're using guns you'll have to constantly adjust your line-of-flight to keep your guns lined up with the target. with rockets all you have to do is make sure that singular moment (instant) that you're launching rockets, that at least one of them will hit the target.

 

while it's possible to do rockets and machine guns at the same time... it's usually not worth the trouble unless you've got a lot of densely clustered targets. my reasoning is this, you can only AIM for one of those weapons at a time.

 

trying to bomb AND use machine guns is a recipe for disaster IMO. the best ranges for cutting down enemy troops and positions with machine guns means that you're SO low and SO close to the enemy that dropping a bomb could well be a self-destructive action! morever machine guns only work well when you're within 1000 ft of the target, by which time you have very little time to make corrections. I find that using multiple weapons for attacking a single pass means that you're exposing yourself to danger for longer periods of time. to minimize the dangers I only use one weapon at a time.

 

if you're leading a flight remember that it can take up to 15 minutes before your wingmen attack the target. you can use the TAC display and command keys to tell them what target to attack. I have no problems doing this because it's the ONLY way to get them to attack ground targets at all! besides which, as a flight leader you'd be talking to your men about the most valuable targets anyway. same problem with CFS3 you have to give your flight members a command to attack ground targets---otherwise they blissfully ignore anything and everything on the ground (so far as I can remember)

 

there are lots of ways to make ground attack missions work-- I've just found that knowing your path of escape, going in as fast as your plane can handle, picking one weapon and sticking with it, and getting out of there is the best way to go. if your first attack run is successful and you still feel eager to push your luck even further... I repeat the same method. I'll climb up to several thousand feet, and then attack again (sometimes from the opposite direction, if I'm running along the trench lines) but for most targets deep behind enemy lines, I always try to use the safest approach.

 

I guess I could have kept this really short and said, "attacking ground targets is the same as balloon busting, it's just with ground targets you can actually destroy them with bombs"