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kout

Some conceptual stuff

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Great stuff kout and good to see you around again,

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That cirrus sky I'd like to do, but I can't get the dark look against bright sunset/sunrise sky until I do some experiments with alternative tga files. Never got around to doing that. I need to.

 

btw...note the blue sky to the left, getting brighter above the sun to the right. That sun centered sky glow effect was in SF from the beginning up to 2008 when it was eliminated. That's the sole reason keeping me from upgrading from SF 2006. Man I so want to upgrade but it just won't happen until TK brings this correct effect back. Who knows he might so I'm hanging in there. :good:

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That cirrus sky I'd like to do, but I can't get the dark look against bright sunset/sunrise sky until I do some experiments with alternative tga files. Never got around to doing that. I need to.

 

btw...note the blue sky to the left, getting brighter above the sun to the right. That sun centered sky glow effect was in SF from the beginning up to 2008 when it was eliminated. That's the sole reason keeping me from upgrading from SF 2006. Man I so want to upgrade but it just won't happen until TK brings this correct effect back. Who knows he might so I'm hanging in there. :good:

 

:grin:

img00002.JPG

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Yea, the river of blood. In 2008, TK went bananas going for a red "camera lens" look, flooding terrain and objects with red. I tried to mod into something useful, but the newer Enviro system handling this is a mess. Notice nobody tries to mod this. The game is now restricted in visual appearance to very low altitude, and to humid summer days; not even low altitude clear winter skies are available now, unless the red river can be modded away. I did make some limited progress, but gave up on it eventually. Maybe I should try again so I CANNOT complain just have to dedicate the time.

Edited by Lexx_Luthor

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An old example, B-57, stargetic pit. Reading between the clouds, the sky to the left is blue, and gets brighter toward the setting sun near the right edge. This is with camera lens effects taken out.

 

B-57-3.jpg

 

 

 

These show the sun centered sky glow fairly well. Very olde colours though, I need to take new shots.

 

F-94-11.jpgF-94-01.jpg

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Ahhhh...have you ever seen a real Winter's dawn (or sunset), Lexx? It's far far redder than any Summer's dawn that I've ever experienced...as the sun has to shine through the atmosphere at a much more oblique angle. Unless, of course, you're attempting to create a "Skies of the planet Tralfamadore" mod :yikes:

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No, its something else. Bear me out. The sun does not have to shine through the atmosphere at a more oblique angle because when the sun is on the horizon, the sun is on the horizon. Same altitude -- an angle measurement here. You may be thinking of the lower altitude angle of the sun for any given time of day in general during winter. In the case here, when the sun is on the horizon, its at the same altitude angle no matter the season. Time of day will differ however, as will sun azimuth angle.

 

Now, the cirrus clouds can turn blood red after a clear winter sunset (or before sunrise), but that is the sun shining through a very long distance, through lower altitude "over the horizon" atmosphere -- er -- so to speak. We can't get near that in the TK Sim. Note kout's Switchblade shot has a little bit of sunset red reflecting off the cirrus clouds. This seems to be the time between red cirrus, where the sun shines through extensive atmosphere to get to the cirrus, and dark cirrus, where the sun has set as seen by the cirrus, so the unlit cirrus goes dark against the still sunlit air above and beyond. Had the photo been taken a few minutes earlier, assuming sunset, the cirrus would have been a much brighter red. But, carrier ops wait for no one. That colour variation of clouds during sunset would be like a pot of gold at the end of the JetSims evolution (or PropSims too).

 

As always I forget THANKS kout for that photo...!

 

One of my fave "winter" looking shots. There does need to be a slim strip of more reddish colour along the horizon, but we can't do that in the game. F-4C stargetic pit. The open canopy does not leave much frame.

 

F-4C-1.jpg

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:heat: That's an F-4E panel though. I need the RWR as soon as SAC starts flying F-4C's over Siberia roundabouts 1964 or so. The high altitude stratospheric clarity of sky is another reason I need the sunset/sunrise moddability of early SF versions. There is a purpose behind my psychosis.

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Yea. The first diagram shows the seasonal variation of maximum altitude angle the sun attains during the day. The second diagram illustrates how maximum altitude angle also varies with latitude of observer.

 

At sunrise/sunset, the sun attains its minimum altitude angle during the day -- zero -- and its the same for summer and winter. At sunset, sun rays are tangent to the Earth's surface and so must pass through the maximum amount of atmosphere, summer or winter.

 

 

Although dust and smoke can have profound effects, differences in sunset among seasons come from varying amount of water vapour in the troposphere -- humidity, which varies with season in general. You can have hazy winter air, and clear blue summer air. But in general the winter offers the clearer air. This is for continental climate which I'm interested in (USSR for example). This does not include sunset reflections on clouds, which can be yellow gold or (kout's 2nd pic) red, with clear air seen between the clouds.

 

In Fire In The Sky, Eric Bergerud writes about the South Pacific sky being superbly crystal clear blue...outside the dense white tropical ocean cumulus clouds, and how this effected visibility in the air warfare there. That goes year round there, near the equator. Different climate.

 

 

In addition to the lack of sun centered skyglow, the effect I can't use is TK's new blood red sunset camera lens glare flooding over terrain and objects. I play assuming I'm not looking through a camera.

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Yea. The first diagram shows the seasonal variation of maximum altitude angle the sun attains during the day. The second diagram illustrates how maximum altitude angle also varies with latitude of observer.

 

 

You've conveniently overlooked the fact that it clearly shows sunlight having to travel further due to seasonal differences in the sun's apparent altitude. Dusk conditions generally occur earlier and last longer at temperate latitudes during late autumn and winter, just as dawn occurs later and lasts longer during those same months. The effect of cold winter air on general atmospheric clarity is well-known, but that's not what I was alluding to.

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Fubar::

You've conveniently overlooked the fact that it clearly shows sunlight having to travel further due to seasonal differences in the sun's apparent altitude.

Almost. I suggest a slight change ~> ...differences in the sun's maximum apparent altitude. Near sunset/sunrise, the sun's apparent altitudes through the day for both seasons converge to the same value, zero, thus the length of atmosphere the sun rays must travel through become the same -- near sunset or sunrise -- no matter the season. Possibly, an alternative way to think about this is to consider the vertical terminator in the first diagram as drawn, and how it cares not about the Earth's polar tilt.

 

By far, none of this is important as much as, like you mention, the effect of cold winter air, as well as high altitude air, on general atmospheric clarity -- low humidity. This seasonal effect, and high altitude effect, is what I'm gunning for in my SF moldings. TK's Red Tide at sunrise must be disabled for this, especially given how it floods over terrain and objects. That I can't tolerate. He poasted he liked it though, so its probably gonna stay.

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