Tea and Sympathy

[harryleith]

I am in dire need of a second opinion after getting whupped in SF2: Nato Fighters last night. I was in a single mission with a 2-ship flight of MiG-29s and we ran into a bunch of CF-5A Freedom Fighters.

 

My wingman got pasted by their first volley of AIM-9s, while I managed to dodge and turn into the attack. This was before we even knew they were there, coming in slightly high at 10 o'clock. They overshot past me and I turned in behind them and after some fumbling about, downed one and damaged another.

 

I then got a tally on another CF-5A about 6000 feet above me and climbed to give chase. I let loose with an AA-10 AlamoC in two separate attacks, both of which missed. In the mean time we had popped above the cloud cover and his mate - whom I never saw but had worked around to my 6 o'clock - gave me a sidewinder enema and it was 'goodnight, vienna!'. MiG parts all over the landscape.

 

It was a frustrating fight and I went to bed very perturbed and with my flying confidence badly shaken. I had never felt in control during the entire engagement but I just couldn't figure out what I did wrong. Sure I target-fixated on the third guy, which was why I got waxed, but I just felt I had to work too hard to chase these guys around the sky. Am I being unrealistic to expect to come out the victor in a four on one engagement? Should I have cut my losses and bugged out?

 

I know you weren't there, but I value your opinions. What lessons would you suggest I take away from this one?

[+hgbn]

Normally I'm quite aggressive. But I think I would have called it the day in this case... Better run and fight another day.. I have before encountered 4 vs 1 and won it.... But it was a different fight where I had the advantage in almost all aspects.. I was the offensive one and had the element of surprise on my side... Makes life a bit easier.... If I had lost the advantage.. I would have bugged out immediately..

[JediMaster]

Besides, the Alamo is hardly an uber-missile. Best used against targets that AREN'T fighters!

[Slartibartfast]

I am in dire need of a second opinion after getting whupped in SF2: Nato Fighters last night. I was in a single mission with a 2-ship flight of MiG-29s and we ran into a bunch of CF-5A Freedom Fighters.

 

My wingman got pasted by their first volley of AIM-9s, while I managed to dodge and turn into the attack. This was before we even knew they were there, coming in slightly high at 10 o'clock. They overshot past me and I turned in behind them and after some fumbling about, downed one and damaged another.

 

I then got a tally on another CF-5A about 6000 feet above me and climbed to give chase. I let loose with an AA-10 AlamoC in two separate attacks, both of which missed. In the mean time we had popped above the cloud cover and his mate - whom I never saw but had worked around to my 6 o'clock - gave me a sidewinder enema and it was 'goodnight, vienna!'. MiG parts all over the landscape.

 

It was a frustrating fight and I went to bed very perturbed and with my flying confidence badly shaken. I had never felt in control during the entire engagement but I just couldn't figure out what I did wrong. Sure I target-fixated on the third guy, which was why I got waxed, but I just felt I had to work too hard to chase these guys around the sky. Am I being unrealistic to expect to come out the victor in a four on one engagement? Should I have cut my losses and bugged out?

 

I know you weren't there, but I value your opinions. What lessons would you suggest I take away from this one?

 

Rule one never underestimate your opponent even if he is driving a Jet 20 years older than yours.

 

Rule two remember if the fight is going badly its okay to run away (if you can).

 

Rule Three be aware at all times and try to keep your situation awareness up.

 

Rule four if the opponent is flying an older jet remember it could be carrying new weapons ie Archer or Aim-9L's.

 

Rule five always remember to clear your tail in a dogfight.

 

Rule Six be aggressive at all times and remember your flight is not over until your sat in the bar having a cold one.

 

Rule Seven Learn from your mistakes.

 

Dogfighting is snapshooting.

 

Technically the Mig-29 should beat the F-5 but if surprise is on the F-5's side it can and will win. Also flying Red is fun... Failing that try it from the F-5 perspective against the Mig-29 and see how long you last. Trust me life gets more interesting if you cannot run from your opponent.

[macelena]

Besides, the Alamo is hardly an uber-missile. Best used against targets that AREN'T fighters!

 

...Nor B-52s, nor anything with chaff

[harryleith]

Besides, the Alamo is hardly an uber-missile. Best used against targets that AREN'T fighters!

 

The Alamo has been carving a swathe through the Korea Mod! I have been turned into chaff by them myself more than once - last time in an RAAF FA-18F.

 

And the AA-11 Archer I used to get the kill and the damage was great. I'll use them again!

[FastCargo]

You were 1 v 4 in a visual dogfight with opponents who had smaller, manuverable aircraft armed with missiles and guns.

 

I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did considering they got the drop on you.

 

When you face odds like that, you need to thin out the herd at long range first. Once you get into a knife fight with opponents that aren't that much less than you are technologically and manuverability-wise, your odds decrease dramatically with each additional opponent that you will survive a long dogfight.

 

"Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em"

 

FC

[ezlead]

In any 1V4 hit hard,hit quick and then run like hell.

If you down at least one,the others are really going to be pissed at you.

You will probably end up with a barrage of 'Winders coming at your 6.

Tommorrow's another day,if you live through this one.

Edited November 20, 2010 by ezlead

[Lt. James Cater]

Just wanted to add to this even though it's some months later.

 

The CF5-A is one hell of a dogfighter. If in a 1V4 situation don't hesitate to make a few evading moves and run for it.

[Slartibartfast]

Must admit I love flying the Freedom Fighter as well as its big sister the Tiger as they are both great close in...

[Jug]

Must admit I love flying the Freedom Fighter as well as its big sister the Tiger as they are both great close in...

The F-5 has the same advantage in a dogfight as the MiG-21, maneuverable as hell and a bitch to find visually. I agree with 1V4 solutions provided above. Use the advantage you have. 20 years of technology. Shoot and extend. Heck, one of those Canucks may get excited and just fly into the ground. Tomorrow there'll be three.