SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[+EricJ 4,199]

Me: F-16C Blk 50 with 2 x AIM-9X and 2 x AIM-120, gun, 300 gal centerline tank

Opposition: Mig-29A with 2 x R-27 and 4 x R-73, gun

 

Started off neutral and turned around, dipping my nose more than normal (surefire to test the maneuverability of an aircraft is to just jump in...) but we managed to point our noses at each other. I wasn't sure if he fired but I dispensed flares just in case. He overshot and I turned into him with him heading north. I turned into him and got a little disoriented but I felt I had a good shot from behind so I took it, splashing the MiG-29.

 

Takeaways... Well can't evaluate much after a 49 second fight but I did realize I can't pull the stick harder (again mostly a Super Hornet driver) but that may be because of the tank. In any case the MF Viper is solidly done in my opinion as it wasn't difficult to down the Fulcrum.

Edited July 18, 2011 by EricJ

[+EricJ 4,199]

Me: F-16C Blk 30 with only 4 x AIM-9M, gun

Opposition: F/A-18E with 2 x AIM-9X and 8 x AIM-120, gun

 

Without that much weight on me and starting neutral, with full burner I easily turned into the Super Bug and got my nose on him. In a previous bout I managed to fire a 9X and down him. But this time I kept my nose on him and while I knew I could take the shot, I didn't. After that he attempted an energy circle after he flew past me, in which I defeated by going vertical and coming over the top. He leveled off and then went into another one with me taking a snot with my Mike winder and downed him.

 

Takeaways... Honestly you can't get that much after 42 seconds however, it should be noted that the Echo Hornet (and non EPE Fox) are pretty much comparable in capability (small world since the F/A-18 of course was the Navy's choice back then and even in that weight class). But the point is that dealing with the E/F Super Hornet is like dealing with an F-16. In comparison the Falcon requires more pull because of the large engine pushing the light frame around, which can cause you to miss a shot.

 

Note: The first screenshot was from my previous bout when I was loaded with 9X pure and not 9M, the bottom shot is from a 9M shot.

Edited July 19, 2011 by EricJ

[+EricJ 4,199]

Me: F/A-18E with 2 x AIM-9X and 8 x AIM-120, gun

Opposition: Two F-16C Blk 50s with 2 x AIM-9X, and 2 x AIM-120, guns

 

Started off neutral and like the Falcon, I turned into the pair easily, not wanting to play around and fired my first 9X at the lead, downing him. The remaining wingman however was the tougher opponent, drawing me into an energy circle a couple times. I tried to defeat it by coming off the top but he was moving quite quickly so I had to think out of the box and deploy my airbrakes to get my nose on him. I managed to, firing my last 9X. Initially it looked like it was going to go stoopid but it tracked, smacking the last Falcon out of the sky.

 

Takeaways. First off I did a 1 v 2 because it's quite obvious I fly the Super Hornet, so I'm more comfortable in the virtual cockpit versus the TMF Viper, which is well done but I'm still not really familiar with so I'll take it easy with the Viper while I can get more intense and in-depth with the Super Bug, fair enough? But on the other hand, looking at the last screenshot again if my 9X obviously had gone stoopid then I would have gotten the Viper in the end, but that would have been a good calculated shot with an AMRAAM.

[Caesar 305]

Well, one thing's for damn sure, I've been enjoying the F-16C models. I figured, after getting some flight time in them, I might as well see how they perform against the Turkey (as EricJ had also done against the Super Bug). I also figured it was fitting since the F-16C Block 30 was the basis for the F-16N used by TOPGUN to simulate the MiG-29. Did three 1v2 fights, first in the F-14A, second and third in the F-14B at different weights.

 

Fight #1 Loadouts:

F-14A - 4x AIM-9L, 2x AIM-7M, gun, no tanks, 75% internal fuel

F-16C - 4x AIM-9L, ECM pod, gun, no tanks, 100% internal fuel

 

This fight was over in 1 minute, 2 seconds and was largely the result of TTP's and my missiles not malfunctioning. Fight started one-circle. One of the common TTP's I've noticed is that one plane will act as bait, while the other winds round to your tail. I figure, why the hell attack the bait aircraft? I put about 9g on the Tomcat into the threat, going slightly nose low. This way, I've got gravity to help the poor thrust of the TF-30's to keep those 9g on the frame. Probably bled to about 8g by the time I got nose-on on the F-16 coming for my 6 o'clock. He was not doing a 9g turn himself, but was coming on hard. Got tone as he continued his turn and sent a heater his way. Good kill on #1.

 

 

 

 

I rolled back and pulled hard towards #2, going for max g, while also knowing that the energy bled would get me towards 400KIAS where I could corner quick. I got nose on the F-16 and sent a heater his way, which was fooled by flares. Sent another, which was also fooled, but both shots kept the F-16 flying a predictable evasion maneuver and I wrenched the Turkey into position on his six. He was maneuvering towards the vertical with the blower engaged. I took two snap shots, then a third longer burst, which was much better placed, sawing off his right wing and causing the pilot to eject.

 

 

 

 

Fight #2 Loadouts:

F-14B - 4x AIM-9M, 2x AIM-7P, gun, no tanks, 100% internal fuel

F-16C - 4x AIM-9M, ECM pod, gun, no tanks, 100% internal fuel

 

Fight #2 took slightly longer, but I followed the same initial TTP. Pulling hard into the threat, I again targeted the F-16 headed for my 6. This time, however, my first heater failed to track. I fired a second, but this one also failed to track. Now I'm in a bit of trouble. Rather than press on #1, I check the skies for #2, since I know he's now going to try to shoot me in the ass. Pull a Split-S into #2 who is just getting nose-on. VSL-High selected and boresight Viper #2 at 3 miles. I know he's going to shoot, but I send a Sparrow his way anyhow. Rather than go for the 1:1 exchange and win the fight, #2 starts popping chaff and maneuvering away from the Sparrow, which he fails to evade and is destroyed at about 1.75miles off my nose.

 

 

 

Time to find #1 again. He's gone high and is working his nose to a threatening position. I know I need to close, so that's exactly what I do. Pull hard into the threat and hope that I can threaten him. He's nose-low and lets a heater loose in my direction. Pop flares, cut the throttle and pull hard. The Mike takes the bait and misses my Turkey Beast by a long shot. A loop ensues, which involves a series of high-g turns and rudder to try to get the best position. The F-16 breaks after I begin to go nose-high the second time. I continue a vertical press, and as I reach the bottom of my second loop with some rudder, get tone. Fox 2 - hrmm, that's kind of HOBS, so I'll keep maneuvering. Well, this particular 9M was able to achieve lead and strike the second F-16. All this happened in 1 minute, 38 seconds.

 

 

 

 

Fight #3 Loadouts:

F-14B - 4x AIM-9M, gun, no tanks, 50% internal fuel

F-16C - 4x AIM-9M, ECM pod, gun, no tanks, 100% internal fuel

 

My third and final fight was a set up to see how the F-14 would handle the F-16 at similar internal fuel quantities, considering at this weight, I had a 1.07:1 TW at the fight's start. Pulled hard to do the same start as the previous two fights (AI really likes that bait and turn start). Fox 2, miss, Fox 2 again hit, roll and pull into remaining F-16. Here's the main thing. At this weight, and with as much thrust as I had, the Tomcat was pegging the accelerometer (10+g if I went full pull) and was holding that "g" pretty damn well.

 

 

 

 

The second F-16 wasn't screwing around; he knew I was pressing hard and was trying to get inside my turn, but with those twin GE engines belching fire and lowering my weight every second, it wasn't going in the Viper's favor. Initially, we were about neutral, so I cut the engines and began curling inside the F-16. My Tomcat was now bleeding speed, but so was the Viper. I sent a HOBS Mike after him, but it didn't track. This wouldn't end up mattering, as I plugged the blower back in at low speed and generated a turn rate that the F-16 couldn't match at his energy state. It took about three seconds and I was nose-on. 20mm, 6000rds/min selected. GUNS! Good kill on the Viper. Fight's over in 1 minute 41 seconds.

 

 

 

 

"Do you have any idea how BIG your intakes look when you're gunning us?" - actual remark by a Viper driver to a Tomcat crew after DACT vs an F-14B

 

Takeaways: A light Turkey Beast is a dangerous plane. However, I think a lot of the successes shown today have to do more with the DACTs we've been flying than anything else. Recall in the earlier pages, it took me some 10 minutes to kill a single F-16! And boy, was it a fight! Now, even finishing the fights with guns, I've got the times down to under 2 minutes. Also, I know that F-16's amazing from the hops I've been flying since I downloaded it. Got guns on some Fulcrums, kills on Flankers, it's a downright beauty to fly, so I was happy with the results going against it. Any Time, Baby!

[+EricJ 4,199]

I'll second that part of the takeaway of experience. It's a learning curve at first but once you get into the groove it's just a matter of imagination on what you can do.

[+EricJ 4,199]

Me: F/A-18F EPE with 2 x AIM-9X and 8 x AIM-120, gun

Opposition: Two F-16C Blk 50s with 2 x AIM-9X and 2 x AIM-120, gun, Jammer pod

 

This started off neutral and once I turned around into both of them, with one coming around while the other initially (I believe) started north but as I followed the one heading south he began turning into me. In any case, I fed the one heading south a 9X and targeted the one heading north as when I checked the overhead map. As I oriented myself into the north Falcon the 9X connected, downing him. The remaining Falcon locked me up and I began to dispense flares and jink in order to avoid a possible shot (if he did fire it was probably defeated by a combination of maneuvering, luck, and the flares) He went vertical so I did the same, firing a 9X and killing him.

 

Takeaways. I feel that if I hadn't been paying attention to the overhead map the northbound Falcon would have gotten me cold. It's a case of risking a shot and moving onto the next target that applies here. Thankfully my first 9X connected therefore removing a possible attack from a different angle from the get go, and using maneuverability to my advantage in order to come out on top. Then again the split tactic that I witnessed is another reminder that paying attention to the overhead map is another thing to do when facing multiple opponents.

 

Sorry no pictures this time.

[+EricJ 4,199]

Me: F/A-18F EPE with 2 x GBU-38, 2 x AGM-88E, 3 x AIM-120, 2 x AIM-9X, one tank, gun + 8 x F-22A (randomly generated)

Opposition: 12 x MiG-21, 2 x Su-27 Flankers with assorted missiles

 

Started off as a strike on a fuel tank on Khe Phat heading north from the deck. Made my third waypoint near Hue and began the low level approach as going through the mission editor I saw the Red Air I would be facing. Once I passed Hue and went low Red Crown called off the first set of bogies, then the second, and then the third set. Fair enough as the Raptors were coming from my southwest and were maneuvering to intercept. On a hunch I selected the farthest northern targets which were the Flankers. I locked and fired both AIM-120s at each Flanker, hoping to take them out of the fight. I can handle Fishbeds but the more sophisticated Flankers would probably shoot me down. By that time I was almost running parallel with the Fishbeds as I went for my attack run. Upon cresting a hill, I fired off a HARM at an unknown radar (gotta update the threat library, natch) and selected my JDAMs. After finally getting my target designated I let one fall then went into A2A mode, as by this time I was directly behind the Fishbeds. Targeting one of the Fishbeds I selected my 9X and fired, while a supporting Raptor fired... not good since his 9X may fly into my tailpipe... which didn't but both my missile and his struck, and he got the kill in the end. Okay, time to get out of here as one tried to pop me with an Atoll, dispensed flares and maneuvered and targeted another Fishbed, he overshot me and I targeted him. He slowed down and I got my nose on him and fired my last 9X, and with him "hanging" in the air the 9X tracked and killed him.

 

Needless to say I got out of dodge, with one remaining Fishbed, who tried to pop me with another Atoll, jink and dispense flares, it missed, hit the deck and make it back to the deck. The Raptors managed to down the remaining Fishbed with a guns kill while I made my way out of there.

 

Takeaways. Non-standard DACT but shows again the usefulness of doing this kind of "work". Things to remember is accurately reading your radar display and also using the overhead map, as well as use of the F6 key. Also threat prioritization is the key here as well, since I decided to remove the Flankers first and use both mine and the Raptors so all they had to do was work on the little fish (no pun intended). Also is a case of a strike mission where you have to kill the target and survive in an environment like that.

[Caesar 305]

OK, it's been a long while since our last DACT report, so I've got one tonight straight outta' TOPGUN (not the movie). This was in essence a 2vUNK, but with the numbers known (2v6), starting neutral. The bandits were 2x F-16C Blk 30, 2x F-5E Tiger II and 2x A-4F Super Fox, representing an enemy equipped with MiG-29, MiG-21 and MiG-17/19 fighters. The fighters were 2x F-14B (96) Tomcats. In this case, we were outnumbered, but had the missile advantage, having 8 all aspect heaters, and 8 radar guided missiles augmented by two guns (total) compared to the enemy with 8 all aspect heaters, and 8 rear-quarter heaters, though with 6 guns split among them. Loadouts were as follows:

 

Fighters

F-14B Tomcat: 4x AIM-7P, 4x AIM-9M, gun, 100% internal fuel, tanks (immediate jettison)

 

Bandits

F-16C Blk 30 Viper: 4x AIM-9M, gun, 100% internal fuel, no tanks

F-5E Tiger II: 2x AIM-9J, 2x gun, 100% fuel, no tanks

A-4F Super Fox: 2x AIM-9P-5, 100% fuel, no tanks

 

The fight started from neutral with hard pulls into each other. Because our Tomcats were heavy, I decided to perform a nose-low initial max-g turn into the threat. I assigned -2 to go after the second F-16 as I went for the "bait" aircraft. In this instance, only the one F-16 acted as bait, all other aircraft began turning onto our tails. I fired an AIM-9M at the bait Viper, but it looked like it was fooled, so I boresighted and fired an AIM-7P. Just as the Papa left the rail, the F-16 exploded off my nose, so I padlocked the second Viper just as the AIM-7 also struck the first Viper.

 

 

 

I pulled hard and was getting close to nose-on when the first Viper and both A-4's began shooting at -2. Clearly he wasn't putting much effort into maneuvering on the initial attack, but since the Vipers had the all-aspect missiles, I don't know if it shot at him angle-off or what (from the screenshot, it looks like it). Because the Viper was shooting at -2, he hadn't taken evasive action against me and I called FOX 2 on him about two seconds after his missile left the rail. My wingman took the Viper's Sidewinder but kept flying for a moment, as my Sidewinder impacted the Viper, tearing off his starboard wing and causing the pilot to punch out. Seconds later, the Super Fox's P-5 also struck my wingman, causing him to punch out. Now it's 1v4.

 

 

I quickly spotted the A-4 that had shot down -2, and began to pull hard into him, when I suddenly realized I had no idea where the F-5's were! Check Six! Right there was an F-5 closing, but off boresight and unable to fire. I initially turned hard and to his left, but I realized he had the energy to match me. One thing I know is that even the TF-30 powered F-14A has better thrust to weight compared to the F-5. Time to take it vertical - began an Immlemann. The F-5 follows, but is quickly loosing energy. As I begin to finish my Immlemann turn, I can see he's damn near out of energy and is going to drop like a rock if I can hold the fight a little longer. Rolling the Tomcat back onto its back and putting the stick into my lap, I see the F-5 drop its nose hard; he's practically floating, I drop the flaps to get my nose down more quickly. At this point I'm at under 80 KIAS. Tone, FOX 2! First -9 Mike misses, FOX 2 again! Good kill!

 

 

 

 

Lifting the flaps to gain energy, and pulling out of my dive, I check for the second F-5 or any A-4's hanging around. Suddenly, I get a "Missile Launch!" warning. Rolling and pulling, dropping flares, I see where the missile is coming from, and realize I can beat it with maneuvering. Plug in the blower and continue to pull into what turns out to be the other F-5, he overshoots and a horizontal scissors ensues. I'm down at around 180-200KIAS while the Tiger driver keeps his energy slightly higher and so is able to keep the fight slightly favoring himself, I go for a vertical attack, pulling low, and then into a loop. The Tiger is able to keep his nose more threatening (never enough for a gun shot), but his flaps are dropping. He's low on energy. As he pulls through nose-low, I press vertical as before (having taken a few seconds to extend and bring the energy to closer to 300KIAS). As his wingman had, this Tiger runs out of energy and is flying predictably straight, trying to rebuild energy. As before, I drop flaps, get the nose around and select gun. I was at about 6000 feet to the F-5's 1000 feet, but slow enough and with the flaps down so that I could complete my loop and hit him. Get some lead and zzip! Guns on the F-5!

 

 

 

 

Now where the hell are the A-4's? Well, I suppose they thought they'd get away after splashing my wingman. That's unfortunate. They had gotten about 18 miles away from the fight. They must have forgotten the Tomcat has a lot of speed and a lot of gas available to it. Plug in the blower, get some altitude and take a chase shot with a 400-Knot closure rate at about 12 miles. First A-4 takes the shot and detonates. Target the second one FOX 1! Miss, FOX 1 again! Miss. Okay, well, I now have to modulate the burner because I'm going fast enough that I have to worry about engine overheat. Get to within 2 miles, cut the blower and dive on the A-4. The Fox doesn't see me, I line up and gun him. Wingy avenged! Still have over 7000 pounds of gas in the jet, well more than enough to get back to friendly lines and land. Total fight time: 7 minutes, 35 seconds.

 

 

 

 

Whew! Takeaways: Aside from the obvious "if this was an actual combat mission and not a DACT starting at dogfight range we'd have shot our Sparrows at 'em to thin their numbers beforehand" I need to work on wingman tactics, or my wingman has to use his plane better. As it stood, I knew both F-16's had to die fast. They (at the weight we started at) had better thrust to weight and also had all-aspect missiles. With them splashed, the next biggest threat was the F-5's. Both were sneaky and both found their way onto my six while I was dealing with another enemy. In this case, it was their own fatal flaw to try to fight me in the vertical, and to allow themselves to get dragged slow. The A-4's, for whatever reason, gave up after they shot down my wingman, and could have made the whole thing a lot deadlier if they had attacked alongside the F-5's, but instead gave me a good tail-chase interception scenario after the other bandits were splashed.

 

Now, would be neat to try this against the MiG-29, -21 and -17!

 

Any Time, Baby!

[+EricJ 4,199]

I tried 2 v 2 before and realized that using a wingnut is useless since I'm already in position while he's still trying to figure out what to do... so I just don't use them anywmore.

[+SidDogg 130]

Hey!

 

Has anyone been DACTin it up since August Patch was released?!

 

...These new MiGs ain't a f**kin joke!!!!!

 

Real talk.

 

 

 

 

SidDogg

[+EricJ 4,199]

No but I just did a run against a MiG-23MLD in an F/A-18E and I noticed a heavier use of flares (took two instead of one 9X to down him), so I'll play with some more MiGs and see how it goes.

[+SidDogg 130]

.....Try OLDER jets, perhaps.

 

The fight tends to change when there are no countermeasures...

 

 

 

 

 

 

SidDogg

[+EricJ 4,199]

Hrm... I tried the Mig-17 and noted nothing different but I'll try the more later Migs...

[+EricJ 4,199]

Hunh... looks like they decreased the lock then launch time for IRMs so far (me against two MiG-23BNs). Had the R-73 that was loaded on the two Mig-23BNs not been a Dud missile I came up with then I would have gotten shot down... I guess TK finally gave them some brains after all.

Edited September 8, 2011 by EricJ

[Slartibartfast 153]

Now this could get interesting going to have to reinstall with the Sept Patch... Been fooling around with scooters lately taking on those bigger faster and more trouble... A-4 vs Su-27 or Mig-29 anyone ???

 

Once I have more time I will be posting some up... As I want to DACT with the A-4G and K that have been released as well as the the Mirage IIIZ against the Mig-23...

[+daddyairplanes 10,126]

Barrett Tillman has a short story, Skyhawks Forever. at the end a Russian merc in a Flanker is engaging USN Super Bugs all over downtown San Diego and some retired USN aviators training the Chinese take out the Su-27 tho by one of them spearing him. TA-4J and A-4F v Su-27, guns only. try that out!

[Slartibartfast 153]

Read it as its in a book I found called Combat full of shorts... as to Guns only its the best way and only way to get a kill hmmm me thinks me and Fraps will have to go for a test drive... the winders are there to spice it up and in case there are more than one...

[+allenjb42 4,232]

I've got that book too. Great story that I'll have to re-read now. Would it make a good mission using Wrench's SoCal(?) terrain?

[+EricJ 4,199]

Barrett Tillman has a short story, Skyhawks Forever. at the end a Russian merc in a Flanker is engaging USN Super Bugs all over downtown San Diego and some retired USN aviators training the Chinese take out the Su-27 tho by one of them spearing him. TA-4J and A-4F v Su-27, guns only. try that out!

 

I read that story years ago, good one though

[+EricJ 4,199]

Me: F/A-18F with 2 x AIM-9X, 6 x AIM-7P Sparrows, gun

Opposition: Two MiG-21bis with 4 x Atolls (I assume, unless it's 2 x Atoll and 4 x AA-8/11)

 

Started neutral and for this bout per SidDogg's recommendation to try the Aug2011 patch AI... I have to say it's gotten better. I admit I had to work harder for a kill... sorta. Upon turning around I locked up one of the MiGs, launching a Sparrow and dropping it. The remaining Fishbed I locked up but he was accelerating perpendicular to me so I didn't take the shot with the older Sparrow and maneuvered with him, this time not using my 9Xs and going for a radar missile kill instead. The Sparrow is big, cumbersome, but I'm getting a soft spot for the -7Ps, so we'll see in the future for them as I don't fire them regularly (instead dwindling the virtual stock of AMRAAMs) enough and wanted to maintain a personal qualification on the missile. The Fishbed went low quite fast, and with me getting slight tunnel/lock vision he managed to get me into the first low level yo-yo. Terrain awareness, while flat is a consideration when maneuvering with the Padlock option enabled. He came around and obviously broke lock, so I maneuvered and managed to lock onto him again. Next he tried to go into a circle but broke out of it. After that he forced me into a lower speed yo-yo in which I deployed my airbrakes in order to not force an overshoot. He was a wily opponent, turning away and he could have gotten on my six but he went high and tried to level out while I looped into him, the superior maneuverability allowing me to recover quickly. I manged to lock him up. He started to turn north in which I fired my second and last Sparrow, the missile tracking an killing him.

 

Takeaways: The key thing about any radar missile kill in the knife fight is position. In essence I could have used a 9X and ended it sooner perhaps, but a radar missile kill forces you to think more on getting him into position, with the limited maneuverability of the Sparrow it required finesse especially against the wily Fishbed. The first kill in this situation is easiest while the last remaining target is harder because he manages to get into a better position in order to work himself into engaging you.

[Caesar 305]

Got two sets of DACT today: first is a 2v4 in the F-14B, second is a 1v1 in the A-4 Super Fox vs a MiG-29A Fulcrum (EDIT: Patch is September 2011)

 

Fight #1: 2v4 DACT 2x F-14B Tomcat vs. 2x MiG-21bis Fishbed, 2x MiG-29A Fulcrum

 

Loadouts:

F-14B: 4x AIM-9L/M, 4x AIM-7P, gun, 100% fuel, tanks

MiG-21bis: 4x AA-8A, 2x AA-2A, gun, no tanks

MiG-29A: 4x AA-8A, 2x AA-10A, gun, 100% fuel, no tanks

 

This was intended to be a 2v6, but for some reason (will re-check the mission), the planned MiG-17F's didn't show. Regardless, I was quite impressed to have a no-kidding competent

Tomcat wingman - a rarity with most airframes, but I do usually find the F-8 wingys to be vicious, not so much for the F-14, F-15 or F-4. Total fight time was 1 minute, 50 seconds.

 

Fight started with a hard port break into the threat, probably about 8g, slight nose-low due to our weight, and I send -2 after one of the MiG-29's, while I engage the second MiG-29, who again appears to be the bait aircraft, but only for a second. He separates from the group, then pulls hard into my turn, while apparently the Fulcrum leader has taken an interest to -2. Right now, I'm not overtly concerned with the MiG-21's; I'm in a Beast for heaven's sake! (more on this later).

 

 

To try to gain an advantage, I pull pure vertical - my idea is to try to kill off some airspeed for an altitude advantage, and hopefully get the Tomcat down into the 280-320KIAS region to curl inside of the Fulcrum I'm engaging. Both MiG-21's are still with this Fulcrum. The Fulcrum is nearly nose-on me as I come over the top, working the rudder and having burned more energy than I hoped, thus dropping the flaps/slats to take-off position. This gets me nose-on the Fulcrum as he's pulling into me, but we're both too close for a shot as I get tone, my nose in a better position than his. We pass, but I'm above him with my nose coming back through the vertical - highly advantageous for me!

 

 

It takes about seven seconds as he blows through, maybe to support his lead, who I had assumed was giving my -2 a hard time (evidently not), for me to get my nose on him. My Tomcat's huge GE engines bellowing fire, gaining speed rapidly. I get tone, am in a good six to seven o'clock position of my bandit and fire an AIM-9L. I can see this is going to miss, so I fire another, which I also see is going to miss, and thus a third. The Fulcrums have to die; we can deal with the -21's later. This one guides true and the Fulcrum detonates off of my nose, about a mile away.

 

 

As I scan the skies, I find the two MiG-21's on my tail, nearly matching my turn. Well, that's what I get for focusing so much on the Fulcrums! Fortunately for me, my Tomcat's got better wing loading, better thrust (even at this weight), and I've gained enough energy that I can put the Tomcat into a sustained defensive turn that will keep me alive. In the turn, I punch off the tanks and spot the second Fulcrum, apparently coming at me. There are two quick "Fox Two" calls and shortly after, the second Fulcrum blows up below my Tomcat. My Wingman just outfought the Fulcrum and blasted him outta the sky! Sweet.

 

 

 

I reverse nose-low to begin dragging the MiG-21's into a rolling scissors and tell -2 to take care of one of the Fishbeds. The MiG closest to me is taking the bait. As I come vertical, rudder rolling, he begins pulling into me, only to have -2 lance him with another Sidewinder. I'm not worried about this guy anymore. I scan the skies for the last Fishbed and spot him probably looking to gain a firing position on -2. This never happens as I get nose-on and fire my last Sidewinder his way. He's flying tangent to me and my Sidewinder, so I'm expecting a miss and to go for guns when the Lima impacts and destroys the last Fishbed.

 

 

 

 

Takeaways: My bad SA on the Fishbeds probably almost got me killed while I was fighting the first Fulcrum. When I saw them, they were right outside of the firing envelope for their missiles, and probably could have snapped a shot off at me when I was slower a few seconds before. Apparently, they weren't in a good enough position to do so, and that's what saved my bacon. Wingy, meanwhile, actually knew what the hell he was doing, outfought and downed his Fulcrum, then did not hesitate at all to shoot at the Fishbed. Bravo Zulu, wish I could save this AI's profile to fly with again!

 

Any Time, Baby!

 

Fight #2 1v1 DACT A-4F Super Fox vs. MiG-29A Fulcrum

 

Loadouts:

A-4F: 2x AIM-9P-5, 2x gun, 50% fuel, no tanks

MiG-29A: 2x AA-10, 2x AA-8, gun, 100% fuel, no tanks

 

This fight was actually pretty non-eventful, just very drawn out (fight time 4 minutes, 12 seconds). It was a no-kidding left-hand energy circle from 15,000 feet down to 200 feet, but what is interesting is that the Super Fox was at the advantage the entire time, including multiple points where I had tone, but no legitimate firing solution. I didn't quite have the thrust to weight of the Fulcrum, even if I was flying with similar fuel quantities to Navy Aggressors (~2000lbs), so where as I could have tried to press vertical like in my former Tomcat v Flanker duels at EricJ's recommendation, I wouldn't have been successful here.

 

 

 

I tried a few nose-low vertical presses (almost Split-S) to try to get a better position, but to no avail, and we continued to descend. My first shot came at low altitude where the missile flew off the rails, got the MiG to eject flares, but the missile wasn't even close. Second shot came when the MiG ran out of altitude before I did, and the Fox got nose on. Fox 2 aaaaand...stupid. Great. The MiG tries a hard left pull and I switch to guns, following him. The Fox, even with the hard wing in this case, got lead. It took about three bursts. First to gauge where the gun was shooting, second because I thought I had lead, then the third, he was lined right up, I pulled the trigger and he flew himself through the rain of bullets. Fights over!

 

 

 

 

Takeaways: The Super Fox is a badass little bird, but then we knew that. There isn't much to take away from a prolonged turn with some small vertical parts thrown in. One thing to remember: your loadout! The AIM-9P-5 is not an all-aspect missile. During the fight, I had forgotten I wasn't packing Lima/Mike Sidewinders, so my first shot was really a waste without question, and I wouldn't have taken it if I remembered what I was carrying. Probably would have instead ripple-fired them when the MiG did his low-altitude pullout.

 

Edited September 14, 2011 by Caesar

[FalconC45 158]

Hey Ceasar, on the first fight, what range did you release the first lima? I haven't been able to fly at all since my fan/pump problem on my gaming rig but I usually release the 9L at 2.4nm. Its really lethal at that range and even ignores countermeasures.

 

Falcon

[Caesar 305]

Usually I have better luck with the 9-Lima, but the thing is, I was slower than the MiG when I shot the first one, which was probably about 1.2-1.5NM distance. The MiG pulled into me and began releasing flares with every Sidewinder shot at him, but the third wasn't fooled. Both first and second started out fine, but then were fooled by CM, and the fact that the MiG was beginning to come perpendicular to their flight path. Real world, IIRC, the 9L's best place to be is between 1.2 and .7NM behind the target, co-speed or faster but I have to use anecdotal evidence for this statement (1200 yards being a figure I recall). In my case, I was a little outside of that, like I said, 1.2-1.5, but slower than the target until he pulled into me.

 

EDIT (21 September 2011): Just an update here, I got my MiG-17F's flying again (apparently they got their ini's ditched somehow, so I had to fix that quick). Did the 2v6 proper this time, took 3 minutes, 23 seconds. Again, my wingman was competent, not as aggressive as when it was a 2v4, but he did his damage. This fight took place between 15K and 20K feet, where the vertical and slow speed scissors worked better than the horizontal for me, especially against the MiG-17F's. My wingman got defensive problematically only once, but kept his head and continued engaging "his" bandit as I shot the Fresco that got on him off his six. A MiG-21 also tried to get on his tail with detrimental effects to his MiG. Fulcrum #1 died first, then Fishbed #1, #2, Fresco #1, Fulcrum #2 and finally Fresco #2 (wingy). Although he only had one kill, he kept Fulcrum #2 on the defensive as I went around splashing the Fishbeds and Frescoes, preventing him from engaging me. Good stuff!

Edited September 21, 2011 by Caesar

[Caesar 305]

Long report today, 5 rounds of DACT, 1v2's - had to do 5 'cause it took me 4 tries before I won! Today's fights are...

 

F-4EJ Kai vs. Super Mysterie B2 1v2

 

This series of bouts came up after reading "Roger Ball!" - the biography of Capt John Monroe "Hawk" Smith, USN., Ret. Prior to becoming a pilot, "Hawk" was a RIO and went on cruise with VF-102 Diamondbacks. During one of the joint exercises with France, VF-102's F-4 Phantoms were badly beaten by French Super Mysterie and other aircraft within visual range (while the French used conspicuous means to deny them long range shots). The Super Mysterie has far superior wing loading to the F-4, and is a much better turning fighter. It also has a gun, which works well for it. So, to make the fight a bit more even, I chose to take the Japanese F-4EJ Kai Phantom II. Like Navy Phantoms before it, the EJ Kai has better thrust to weight ratio, and also has a "soft" wing, making it a better turning aircraft, but as I discovered, it cannot hold a candle to the Super Mysterie within visual range.

 

In a total of 5 fights, I was able to win once, on the last fight, the first four ended disastrously for me. I eventually abandoned the visual fight, got a hell of a lot of separation, and fought the way the Phabulous Phantom was designed: missile shots from long range.

 

Loadouts (all):

F-4EJ Kai: 4x AIM-9L, 4x AIM-7M, gun, 100% fuel, no tanks

Super Mysterie B2: 2x AIM-9P, gun, 100% fuel, no tanks

 

Fight #1

Starting neutral at 15,000 feet, as all fights, I knew that the F-4 has to be in one of two regions to defeat an opponent: either always above 450KIAS, or way down in the mid 100's of KIAS in a slow-speed, flaps down rolling scissors where a good F-4 driver can make the plane do surprising things. I know I have two things going for me: higher T:W, and better close range weaponry. It's simply a matter of getting nose-on the opponent.

 

The F-4 bleeds speed like no-one's business, and cannot sustain high "g" for very long, so I started with a roughly 4g turn into the threat, keeping my speed just about stable. The Super Mysteries were inside of my turn damn fast, but with the moderate "g" pull, I had gained some separation. At least one fired as my exhaust was facing them, I noticed, but my nose was close to cutting off the 180 aspect and the missile went dumb. At 5.5g, I was able to get one of the SMB2's onto my nose and fired an AIM-9L at him, striking and killing. When I checked for #2, he was literally already on my six o'clock.

 

 

 

Pulling hard into the vertical and running, the Mysterie tried to follow me, but as I reached 30,000 feet, he was way too far back and ran out of air speed. He tries to shoot at me with his gun, but he is way out of range. Good! I can kill him! Put out the flaps and plug in the blower, hard rudder roll to force the nose to slice down and I'm picking up air speed. Problem: not fast enough. As I'm nose-down to get to his level, my Phantom cannot get its nose up. This is something I am not used to, normally flying F-14's or other "Teen-Series" aircraft.

 

 

 

As it turns out, I can't get the F-4's nose on the threat and I blow through his altitude, then elect to extend to try to get some energy and distance. Unfortunately for me, I reversed into the Mysterie too early. I tried to pull nose-on with too little energy and again, the SMB2 was inside my circle. I elected to go vertical again, but this time the Mysterie had enough energy to follow, so I completed a loop and hoped to bring him back up with me and drive him out of energy. As we were coming down, he fired his second missile (this was the initial shooter, I noticed), and it too missed. Unfortunately the F-4 did not conserve very much energy even in the dive, and the Mysterie followed, spraying snap shots with his guns. He got lucky with a burst and my Phantom was on fire. I attempted to get the nose around and shoot a Sidewinder at him, but my heaters and Sparrows were lost in the hit. Time to punch out!

 

 

 

 

You win this round, France!

 

Fight #2

This fight started more aggressively with a 6g+ turn into the threat. Again, we got nose-on each other, but this time I immediately pressed vertical, trying to get the Mysterie's to follow me, which they did. Unfortunately for me, I thought I had enough pitch authority to get the nose around after one followed and shot a pair of heaters at me. First one missed, and I thought the second one did as I tried my fast nose-flip at the top. Suddenly, the damn jet is on fire. Okay, try something else.

 

 

 

Fight #3

This time, I want to try to get the Phantom's nose around faster than the Mysterie's, so I opt for a full 9g turn into the threat. This spikes to 10g, and I still don't get nose-on first. This time, I go nose-low to conserve energy, and wind up pulling through into high vertical as one of the Mysteries ends up nose on. I put two heaters his way and neither guides. The Phantom is now burning energy like a mad man, as I try to turn onto the SMB2's tail. This runs me out of energy and #2 has been following me. Again, my Phantom becomes a ball of flames.

 

 

 

 

Fight #4

This one starts immediately nose-high vertical in a run to get the SMB2's out of energy, which works initially. I don't drop flaps as I get through 30,000 feet this time, but let the nose slice through, and go making speed unadulterated. This allows me to get nose-on one of the SMB2's, who also tried to follow me through the vertical push. After getting nose on with a moderate turn and pull into the vertical onto his tail, I fire two heaters his way. Both strike, but somehow the jerk manages not to catch fire. Riiiiiight. Meanwhile, I notice #2 has gotten on my tail and again it is only a matter of time before he's got a gun solution on me. Put him through a workout, but yet again, a lucky snap shot lands on the Phantom.

 

 

 

Fight #5

Okay, this whole "visual" thing isn't working out. I start this fight by simply plugging in the blower and running like a bitch. I get the jet to about 1.35M, and put it into a turn, setting the Radar to 20NM, acquiring the SMB2's at 7NM separation. Lock the first one, Fox 1 twice! As we close, he detonates off the nose about 3NM away. The second SMB2 has gotten on my tail - he must have followed more closely than his wingman.

 

 

 

Okay, well, knowing what happens when I turn into the SMB2 anywhere within the vicinity of 3NM, I know I'm not doing so this time. He fires two AIM-9P's at me, both run out of juice in the chase. I bring the fight pure vertical, knowing he's going to have to gun me, and has nowhere near the energy to follow me. I get to 53,000 feet before running outta smack, while the SMB2 stalls 20,000 feet below me. Nose low, I can't get good control of the Phantom, but the plane does not depart. I pull through the vertical at about 25,000 feet and back up into the SMB2.

 

 

 

He pulls his nose low and into me from his perch at about 33,000 feet and as we meet and I go above him, I know this is not the place to be (from getting either gunned or shot the past four times). Extend! The F-4's better engines project me a few miles away from the Mysterie, and I know this is my best chance to kill him. I have some 1.12M to work with and pull hard to get the bandit on the nose, burning the speed down to about 400KIAS. The Mysterie is getting nose-on, but so am I this time. It is already too late for him; FOX 2! Send two heaters his way for good measure, and he detonates off my nose like his wingman. Finally! The EJ Kai pulls through!

 

 

 

 

Takeaways:

The Phantom II was born as a thoroughbred interceptor, unlike its VFX/FX replacements (F-14/F-15) and it shows. It takes a truly skilled Phantom pilot to fight WVR, and that I ain't. The superior wing loading and turning performance of the Super Mysterie B2 shows that in spite of its superior avionics, the F-4EJ Kai is still a Phantom, and the turning fight is not the F-4's strong point. In the vertical, there is an obvious advantage, which I certainly did not exploit properly, simply trying to run the Mysterie out of airspeed. A better way would probably have been trying to initiate a vertical scissors after splashing one of the Mysteries. In spite of the fact that this is a game on a computer, I can see what "Hawk" was talking about - aircraft like the Super Mysterie, MiG-17 Fresco, and A-4F Super Fox are quite dangerous inside of visual range because of their super low wing loading and excellent turning capability. Even for a Teen-Series pilot, they can be quite a handful. In the Phantom, pressing your advantages (radar, avionics and vertical power) is absolutely necessary if you wish to survive. I've taken that lesson the hard way. At least it wasn't a total wash, and if I had to fight them another four times, I have no doubt I'd come out on top every time - I let myself fight their fight and it cost me.

 

May like to see how much better the Tomcat, Hornet, Eagle or Viper fare.

 

 

EDIT: So, I did take up an F-14A and F-14B versus the Mysteries. The F-14A, I ran 5 times like the Phantom, but every fight ended up in my favor. The Mysteries can still provide a turning issue for the underpowered F-14A, but in the rolling scissors (fight 5 had a pronounced one), vertical fight, and even sustained turning fight, they had no advantage. Average fight time was about 2 minutes with a 3 minute bout once. Against the F-14B, they stand no chance. Even with one pressing for my tail after "taking" his wingy for bait, I pressed vertical, and at such T:W the SM couldn't follow. He ran out of speed, I completed my loop and shot him in the ass while he was still trying to recover the jet at a scant one minute, five seconds. My takeaways from this: I need to spend more time in the second and third generation fighters!

Edited September 22, 2011 by Caesar

[Slartibartfast 153]

Okay guys I was wondering as we have all done DACT if it was fine for some plain defeating of the enemy as in not killing him... Was wondering as I was running away from a Hunter in the Bucc last night as I didn't have any A-A more a case of defensive manuevering. See if anyone was interested.