Recent Weather

[+Dave 2,322]

So far about 1100 tornados this year and that's twice the amount the US had all last year. Joplin, Mo, Tuscolusa, Al, destroyed. Mississippi River flooding. Mother nature can be a bitch. I'm a very lucky person that I havent had to go through that. I hope those people recover fast and may the people who lost theirs lives find peace.

[xclusiv8 35]

I find it amazing how people can believe in something like the rapture and claim it comes from the bible. The rapture was first invented, thought of in the 50s.

[+Major Lee 18]

I believe you have your dates wrong, unless you mean the 50's AD... (no 19-...)

 

John Darby wrote about the concept of the "rapture" in the early 1800's... He was influenced by Emmannuel Lacunza, who wrote about it in a book in 1790...

They were preceded by Morgan Edwards and his book in 1744 that described the pre-tribulation rapture...

Of course, he was pre-empted on this topic by the likes of Increase Mather and Peter Jureiu in the later 1600's...

But then, their roots had been concealed by the Augustinian concept of allegorism in 431AD until the 1600s...

However, the early (first and second century) church believed, according to the writings (texts of sermons) of Clement, Ignatius, Barnabas and others, and the texts of papers like "Didache", the concept was clearly very well known. These writings date back to 50AD to 150AD...

 

All these writings are based, of course on a variety of scripture that clearly describes Christ and HIS departure and imminent return.

 

Jesus promised that after he left, he would return to take the faithful home...

JOHN 14:2-3 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

 

Jesus left, in view of the disciples...

ACTS 1: 9-11 while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

 

What will happen is explained by Paul..

I Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

And again, the actual return explained in more detail...

I Thessalonians 4:15-17 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

Last time I checked, all of these scriptures were written within a few decades of Christ's Ascension, probably around AD33...

 

Of course, even the prophet Isaiah got in on the rapture and the wrath that will follow, around 900BC...

ISA 26:20-21 ​Come, my people, enter your chambers, ​​And shut your doors behind you; ​​Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, ​​Until the indignation is past. ​​For behold, the LORD comes out of His place ​​To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; ​​The earth will also disclose her blood, ​​And will no more cover her slain.

 

 

So, does Harold Camping's failed prediction invalidate the Bible? I think not, given that the Bible warns that "you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect." (Mat 24:44) and that “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only." (Mat 24:36). Clearly, God is not operating on man's timetable; we operate on HIS. This next verse explains that timetable quite plainly...

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment... If you don't live long enough to be taken in the rapture, then you will die. What will be God's judgment of you? I know what mine would be, and it ain't even close... So I have laid claim to the gift that Jesus has given to any who would accept; pardon for sin, an Advocate with God and an inheritance in heaven.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

PS:

So, for the modern scoffers who claim that the word rapture isn't in the Bible... You're right, the English word "rapture" isn't. However, in the Latin Vulgate Bible, the word raptura is (and variants thereof). That Latin word is translated from the Greek word harpazo, meaning a "snatching away". Myself, I prefer the term "Assembly", which is used in reference to the gathering of Christ's church.

 

(edited for formatting)

Edited May 24, 2011 by Major Lee

[Icarus999 70]

There's only one thing to do with a bigot like uncleal. Blow him up.

 

 

 

Whoa dude...getting a little bent out of shape are we? Taking issue with bogus racially motivated holidays does not a bigot make...Settle down buddy Mkay.

[JediMaster 451]

The problem is the Bible is pretty much almost never literal. The idea that "true believers" that are still alive will suddenly head to an afterlife without dying defies logic. It also leaves the question of the young and infirm open. What about the mentally handicapped? Do they all get an automatic pass? Same with children, are there going to be a bunch of 18 month old babies suddenly taken? What if their parents are evil? What's the cutoff age? Will kids be left behind while their parents go because while the parents were good people they were crappy parents and didn't teach the kids well enough? Frankly the idea that I could be yanked away while my daughters are left behind to fend for themselves makes me NOT want to go. It also makes life seem like a trap. "I will give you free will, but I won't make you serve me or give you proof that I exist. Oh, but if you don't you're consigned to oblivion and if you do you go to heaven!" Ah, got it, God's a jerk, why should I want to go to heaven again?

 

It sounds more like it's a threat couched as a pipe dream meant to keep the faithful inline ie "you may not have till death, it could happen at any minute and if you've not been good enough to that point, you're damned!" It also gives that false hope of "it's ok that your life now totally sucks, because at any time you could suddenly be brought to heaven!"

 

Besides, who cares about an afterlife anyway? The only life we know of for certain is the one we have right now, THAT'S what matters. Once I die I won't be me anymore anyway, I'll be something else, so I don't really care what happens to it anymore than I care what happens to the guy that takes my job after I stop working somewhere.

 

It also totally sidesteps the underlying idea that God doesn't really care about what He made. So he makes the Earth, he makes Man, but then at some point every good person gets taken away to heaven, every bad person is condemned to oblivion, and the planet and the rest of the universe just...what, sits empty? Gets destroyed? Why put all that effort in and then have some arbitrary end game date? Doesn't it make more sense that it should continue indefinitely? Why else is there a vast universe of planets and stars out there? To give us something to look at? He could've made a pretty sky and left it at that, no need to create a vast cosmos if we were just supposed to sit on this rock for a few thousand years and then leave altogether. Seems far more believable that it's all out there for us to expand out to.

 

None of these "end of days" scenarios make any sense, it's like no one wants to believe in a story that doesn't have an end. Is it not more likely that an eternal being would come up with an eternal plan? Or is this because of some deep-rooted illogical desire to finally see an end to evil? Like a bell is struck and it's "ok, evil is vanquished, everyone party!"

 

Whatever.

[MigBuster 2,884]

So far about 1100 tornados this year and that's twice the amount the US had all last year. Joplin, Mo, Tuscolusa, Al, destroyed. Mississippi River flooding. Mother nature can be a bitch. I'm a very lucky person that I havent had to go through that. I hope those people recover fast and may the people who lost theirs lives find peace.

 

Yeah its on the news here - whole places have been flattened - really bad!

 

Today I was out thinking to myself how windy its been in England recently - well when I say windy a few apples have fallen off a tree - we dont exactly get many tornados over here!

[Caesar 305]

Best of luck to those who are being affected by this! We did some tornado relief for Tuscaloosa while I was down at Maxwell - never before had I seen such destruction. Words couldn't describe it. Having lived in the northern part of the US for nearly all my life, we don't see weather like this; huge blizzards, sure, and the random tornado that takes out a line of trees, whoop-i-dee-doo. Down south, damn. Stay safe down there!

[xclusiv8 35]

The problem is the Bible is pretty much almost never literal. The idea that "true believers" that are still alive will suddenly head to an afterlife without dying defies logic. It also leaves the question of the young and infirm open. What about the mentally handicapped? Do they all get an automatic pass? Same with children, are there going to be a bunch of 18 month old babies suddenly taken? What if their parents are evil? What's the cutoff age? Will kids be left behind while their parents go because while the parents were good people they were crappy parents and didn't teach the kids well enough? Frankly the idea that I could be yanked away while my daughters are left behind to fend for themselves makes me NOT want to go. It also makes life seem like a trap. "I will give you free will, but I won't make you serve me or give you proof that I exist. Oh, but if you don't you're consigned to oblivion and if you do you go to heaven!" Ah, got it, God's a jerk, why should I want to go to heaven again?

 

It sounds more like it's a threat couched as a pipe dream meant to keep the faithful inline ie "you may not have till death, it could happen at any minute and if you've not been good enough to that point, you're damned!" It also gives that false hope of "it's ok that your life now totally sucks, because at any time you could suddenly be brought to heaven!"

 

Besides, who cares about an afterlife anyway? The only life we know of for certain is the one we have right now, THAT'S what matters. Once I die I won't be me anymore anyway, I'll be something else, so I don't really care what happens to it anymore than I care what happens to the guy that takes my job after I stop working somewhere.

 

It also totally sidesteps the underlying idea that God doesn't really care about what He made. So he makes the Earth, he makes Man, but then at some point every good person gets taken away to heaven, every bad person is condemned to oblivion, and the planet and the rest of the universe just...what, sits empty? Gets destroyed? Why put all that effort in and then have some arbitrary end game date? Doesn't it make more sense that it should continue indefinitely? Why else is there a vast universe of planets and stars out there? To give us something to look at? He could've made a pretty sky and left it at that, no need to create a vast cosmos if we were just supposed to sit on this rock for a few thousand years and then leave altogether. Seems far more believable that it's all out there for us to expand out to.

 

None of these "end of days" scenarios make any sense, it's like no one wants to believe in a story that doesn't have an end. Is it not more likely that an eternal being would come up with an eternal plan? Or is this because of some deep-rooted illogical desire to finally see an end to evil? Like a bell is struck and it's "ok, evil is vanquished, everyone party!"

 

Whatever.

 

I salute you.

[+Dave 2,322]

The problem is the Bible is pretty much almost never literal. The idea that "true believers" that are still alive will suddenly head to an afterlife without dying defies logic. It also leaves the question of the young and infirm open. What about the mentally handicapped? Do they all get an automatic pass? Same with children, are there going to be a bunch of 18 month old babies suddenly taken? What if their parents are evil? What's the cutoff age? Will kids be left behind while their parents go because while the parents were good people they were crappy parents and didn't teach the kids well enough? Frankly the idea that I could be yanked away while my daughters are left behind to fend for themselves makes me NOT want to go. It also makes life seem like a trap. "I will give you free will, but I won't make you serve me or give you proof that I exist. Oh, but if you don't you're consigned to oblivion and if you do you go to heaven!" Ah, got it, God's a jerk, why should I want to go to heaven again?

 

It sounds more like it's a threat couched as a pipe dream meant to keep the faithful inline ie "you may not have till death, it could happen at any minute and if you've not been good enough to that point, you're damned!" It also gives that false hope of "it's ok that your life now totally sucks, because at any time you could suddenly be brought to heaven!"

 

Besides, who cares about an afterlife anyway? The only life we know of for certain is the one we have right now, THAT'S what matters. Once I die I won't be me anymore anyway, I'll be something else, so I don't really care what happens to it anymore than I care what happens to the guy that takes my job after I stop working somewhere.

 

It also totally sidesteps the underlying idea that God doesn't really care about what He made. So he makes the Earth, he makes Man, but then at some point every good person gets taken away to heaven, every bad person is condemned to oblivion, and the planet and the rest of the universe just...what, sits empty? Gets destroyed? Why put all that effort in and then have some arbitrary end game date? Doesn't it make more sense that it should continue indefinitely? Why else is there a vast universe of planets and stars out there? To give us something to look at? He could've made a pretty sky and left it at that, no need to create a vast cosmos if we were just supposed to sit on this rock for a few thousand years and then leave altogether. Seems far more believable that it's all out there for us to expand out to.

 

None of these "end of days" scenarios make any sense, it's like no one wants to believe in a story that doesn't have an end. Is it not more likely that an eternal being would come up with an eternal plan? Or is this because of some deep-rooted illogical desire to finally see an end to evil? Like a bell is struck and it's "ok, evil is vanquished, everyone party!"

 

Whatever.

 

f***in A JM!!!!!!