Couple of P3 questions...

[33LIMA 972]

Having finally got OFF P3 I'm still finding my way around and enjoying the many major improvements over P2, and have a couple of questions I haven't been able to find the answers for.

 

Aircraft LODs - I'm finding the close range (c.220 yards?) that the planes switch from highest to next lower LOD a bit distracting, especially the lack of undercarriage, and its sudden appearance as you get closer. It it doesn't cripple my FPS I'd like to move out the high detail LOD a bit further, say to 500 yards, or as far as I can. Can this be done?

 

BE2c armament - having flown and atatcked a few so far, I was a bit surprised to see this fitted with a fixed, forward-firing Lewis - mounted on the LH side of the fuselage and evidently synchronised to fire thru the prop disc- and seemingly no flexible mount for the observer. The only forward-firing Lewis I never heard of on a BE was on a BE12 not a BE2 and it was on the centre section to fire over the prop. While other BE12s had a synchronised gun, it was a Vickers not a Lewis and it was on a BE12 not a BE2. I'd have thought a sychronised Lewis on a BE2 is either wrong or not a normal service fitting, while the absence of a flexible Lewis means the plane doesn't have the armament it did routinely carry in service (except when the observer was left to save weight for bombs). Are all the OFF BE2cs armed in this weird way?

 

Deathless pilots - my CAMPAIGN pilot - two of them anyway - seems to be indestructible, sometimes. Last one collided with an FE that broke up in front of him, at several thousand feet, wrecking his Albatros DIII. Mission ended automatically. but the campaign carried on regardless, as if he wasn't even hurt. Reitred him in disgust :) Second time this has happened. They had been ticked not to die in QC but I thought that didn't apply in Campaigns. One thing I can think of is I had a no-CD exe in CFS3 when I installed OFF, which I saw is credited with causing smlilar oddness. I had the original 3.1a CFS3.exe and I copied that back into my CFS3 install, and into my OFF install (which had copied across the no-CD .exe, i could tell from the size.date). But the sim seems fine otherwise (apart from BE2s with no flexible Lewis :) ) Maybe I should start over & reinstall, or is there another reason my pilots won't die? I'm playing 'die roll death' not DID but on at least a couple of occasions, the crash should not have been survivable. Does it sometimes happen, that the 'die roll' can sometimes save you from what really should be certain death, like the Zeppelin crewman who fell/jumped from the burning airship, fell thru a convent roof, and landed in a bed just vacated by a nun??? I certainly didn't noticed any convenient convents as I fell out of the sky either time, but maybe I passed out and, there they were, waiting to save me...???

[77Scout 3]

I don't know about the LOD's. I personally haven't noticed disappearig undercarriage etc. Hopefully someone else will answer.

 

Yes, I believe all BE2's are similairly armed (forward fixed gun and no flexible gun). Neither do they attempt to evade or maneuver so It makes them a very easy target. This may change in Phase 4 perhaps?

 

Death on die roll is exactly as it says. When you die, the computer 'rolls the dice' and will determine you to be alive a certain persentage of the time. It has no actual intelligence built in AFAIK. So with this setting you can have a horrible certain death and still be allive next mission. if you don't like it, use DID (which will kill you for even the smallest crash) or use 'pilot cannot die' and manually kill (delete) your pilot when you judge he should have been killed.

[+Polovski 456]

Glad you are up and running at last and hope you are enjoying some.

 

Sounds like you have the aircraft sliders on low. Most craft are well lodded but if you lower the detail level you will see, rightly, low detail lods showing sooner a you zoom. ealier. Move up your aircraft slider to 5 in graphics config (Cfs3config).

 

Be2 yes, they had fixed mounts too, and all sorts of Heath Robinson affairs such as balanced across rigging wires!, twin fixed forward, mixed, centre mounted that could be swung forward over the engine, Strange mounts in various positions, center mounts and many others - they were not standardised as such as most mounts where mainly experimental and not great in any configuration.

 

So we chose a compromise between being useless, to almost useless. As we only have 1 Be craft to represent various years and experiments we wanted to show the almost unarmed version to give a taste of the early war. We could have gone with totally unarmed as they would mostly have been when carrying plenty of bombs or early on, so it's a compromise. Also importantly our extremely tiny team had no more time to make others.

 

Be's were very stable and not manoeuvrable - the AI is flying them as bombers as flying them as fighters they look very silly. But yes they are fokker fodder which is mostly what they were. AI in P4 we are aiming for many improvements so if possible to improve them them we will of course.

 

P4 we are looking at options - all take time to make is the issue. Maybe I'll do a rifle version too before my eyes totally burn out ;)

[33LIMA 972]

Thanks for the responses guys, only posted as I couldn't find the answers in the OFF KB, game documentation or other threads.

 

Re LODs, I had aircraft sliders on 4, then went to 5 and the undercart seemed to appear at the same (close) range so I'm a bit baffled still - which is my normal condition anyway so no surprises there :) I did notice getting higher-res skins on 5 but may go back to 4 as I tend to fly zoomed out a bit in external view to avoid the CFS3 'fisheye lens" effect and only hop into the' pit when battle is imminent. Plus I gather you don't see damage with aircraft at 5. Will fiddle a bit.

 

Re the BE2s, FWIW I think the best thing would be to feature the most representative service configuration rather than a rare local mod that makes the already-vulnerable BE virtually defenceless; even tho there are probably practical diffs simulating fields of fire from 2-2 different mountings covering different arcs (1xStange mount and 1-2x'candlestick' mounts) between which the observer could swap his Lewis. Anyway for now, then, I'll stick to shooting down BEs and leave flying them to braver players than I.

 

I'll continue to compromise by playing 'death on die roll' and as I did last time, retire my pilot if I think he's had one convent bed too many.

 

Main problem at the moment (and it's realistic, not an OFF issue) is spotting enemy aircraft; unless against the sky they can be very hard to see (and even against the sky, hard to spot if head-on). I generally use the improved OFF version of the CFS3 'radar' only for the nav lines (set to 'ships') and only turn on air or ground targets for wingman targeting or padlock (pain that CFS3 doesn't let you padlock without the bl**dy radar). Makes life harder but to me flying around dangerous skies trying to see the Bad Guys before they see you, so you can do unto others but do it first, is as much a part of WW1 air combat simulation as the actual fighting. And OFF does this rather well.

[+Polovski 456]

If you still see it then it's possible the aircraft you see that on needs wheels adding to a lower LOD. Probably fixed in P4. Most are all getting update, upgraded etc.

 

Yes we know the various mount methods used but I explained why we went for that idea and it wasn't possible to have a gunner physically move a gun between mounts in CFS3 so it is what it is - but as I say we shall see for P4.

 

Yep that's the beauty you can decide what you like with your sim, some like Uncleal set to invincible but kill them off manually if they think the crash is not survivable etc.

 

Slider 5 does not stop effects happening normally, so could be another setting (GPU or otherwise) that is stopping you seeing damage (setting high res skins will too).

[33LIMA 972]

My mistake chaps it's the hi-res skin that stops the damage showing, have that selected as well as sliders at 5. It's the Albatros DIII (early) that has the undercart appear at 240 yards (checked with labels on) so yes it's probably just some planes have this LOD issue.

 

I never used the labels in CFS3 (or IL2 either) but I have started turning them on now and then in OFF as it helps me keep tabs on my wingmen with whom I already feel a good more identification in OFF, than I did in CFS3 - not least as witnesses to my claims, nice touch that, adds a bit of WW1 atmosphere, sort of thing that brings a sim to life! The 'bl**dy radar' and the labels could be argued to be a substitute for the eyes of your wingmen, after all it's not just the leader's job to keep a lookout.Provided, as I suspect is the case, the dots appear at the distance you might typically expect to see 'something' and turn red/blue at the distance you might typically expect to recognise what the 'something' is. Not a cheat, just a sort of 'situational awareness plot' (albeit it looks like a bl**dy radar ).

 

Just put in a claim for 3 BEs, shot down in flames one after the other, the last after a long tail chase, NE of Douai, with Archie picking them out for me, much more fun that the railway attack we were detailed for. All wingmen were in the area and it was well behind our lines so I will be most displeased if I don't get some confirmations. Just as well I got them, I gave the 'A' attack command repeatedly thinking that the wingies would get stuck in but they didn't, maybe as the BEs, which were directly in front within 500 yards, weren't the 'offishul' mission target. It looks like I need to allocate specific targets via 'TAC' to get them going. Yes I had read the sticky saying you needed to order your wingies to attack but I though they would pick their own if I didn't designate specific targets; seem to remember it worked that way in CFS2 if not also CFS3. Anyway they flew right past one of the BEs without firing a shot after I'd made my attack, maybe they were caught by surprise as they were just expecting me to knock him down on the first pass, "Hey look, Theodor, the Boss missed, maybe he's not such a hot shot after all". Being flight leader is going to take a bit more practice.

[themightysrc 5]

"I never used the labels in CFS3 (or IL2 either) but I have started turning them on now and then in OFF as it helps me keep tabs on my wingmen with whom I already feel a good more identification in OFF, than I did in CFS3 - not least as witnesses to my claims, nice touch that, adds a bit of WW1 atmosphere, sort of thing that brings a sim to life! The 'bl**dy radar' and the labels could be argued to be a substitute for the eyes of your wingmen, after all it's not just the leader's job to keep a lookout.Provided, as I suspect is the case, the dots appear at the distance you might typically expect to see 'something' and turn red/blue at the distance you might typically expect to recognise what the 'something' is. Not a cheat, just a sort of 'situational awareness plot' (albeit it looks like a bl**dy radar ). "

 

Hi Lima,

 

There's only two mods that I have on my OFF setup, and they're both useful for the situation you're in. The first is opaque labels for aircraft - basically, you can hardly read them unless the aircraft is pretty close - ie, the level of closeness where you'd (IRL) have identified your own side, a local squadron, the enemy Jasta, but without making it easy. And, they're always white in colour, so until the planes are close, you don't necessarily know if they're Them or Us.... The related mod is white TAC blobs: you know they're there, but you don't know who's who at a glance. Marvellous for inducing paranoia in fights with 10 or more aircraft...

 

Having said how great these mods are, I'm not sure where you'd find them - perhaps other OFFers can help in this regard.

 

Cheers,

Si

[33LIMA 972]

Hi Src, yes I remember seeing a ref to the 'lo-vis labels' mod, thanks for the reminder, will track that down. If I'm gonna use the labels, I may as well try to make them look a bit less conspicuous. Another alternative might be a font more like IL2 uses, instead of CFS3's 'Mr Blobby' font. I think I'll stay away from the 'white blobs' mod, bad enough if I have to designate targets for the wingies every time, worse if half the time I'm ordering fratricide.

 

Yeah Uncleal I've started flying as a Leutnant from the outset now, so I might as well enjoy the benefits of the Officers' Mess...now which way is it you have to pass the port, left or right...anybody?

[+Polovski 456]

33Lima I'm working on the Be2 at the moment so have to decide on armament - there are some issues with some of the loadouts which limits it some, but we will move the side gun anyway.

[themightysrc 5]

"33Lima I'm working on the Be2 at the moment so have to decide on armament - there are some issues with some of the loadouts which limits it some, but we will move the side gun anyway."

 

Hurrah!

 

The basic kite's fine. But do what you did with the Strutter - there are two versions, single and two seat. Just mod that loadout so the two seater gets the rear gun and the single seater is the BE12. If you want to be sexy about it, give the two seater a %age chance of being 'field modded' with a front firing machine gun and install the model as per. Everything else is already there...

 

Cheers,

Si

[33LIMA 972]

33Lima I'm working on the Be2 at the moment so have to decide on armament - there are some issues with some of the loadouts which limits it some, but we will move the side gun anyway.

 

Good news there Polovski - agree strongly with SRC, the best thing to do is give the standard version a flexible Lewis for the observer - in the front cockpit, of course. When further time permits, maybe clone it with the front cockpit covered in, and either a Vickers where the Lewis is now, or a Lewis on the top plane, so you have the BE12. Two for the price of one, almost, except there's all the additional work to integrate it with the campaign. But a basic BE2c that can at least shoot back, would be a really big improvement.

 

Not that shooting is the BE-all (sic) and end all in OFF. Earlier this evening, I flew the first mission in a Walfisch campaign in dirty weather and I would have been quite miffed if anyone had dared to shoot holes in my lovely light blue Roland. Just flying to and from the Lines in OFF, and drinking in the experience of the lovely planes, the tremendous scenery and cloudscapes, and the roar of your engine almost drowning out the drum-fire you can see going on in the desolate, shell-swept landscape below, is an experience which can fill the senses all on its own; marvellous and not to be missed. Likewise, I have just landed from a balloon protection mission flying SE5as with 'Fifty-six' in beautiful sunshine; there was nary a Hun in sight but I would not have believed I could have got so much enjoyment from a sortie in a combat flightsim where not a shot was fired in anger, apart from some Archie. What can I say, but 'wow!

Edited June 12, 2011 by 33LIMA

[FreakyStyley 0]

I have a few questions based on my own experience with BH&H over the last month:

 

1) Where are the bombers? After a month of my first campaign with RNAS 8 in late 1916, I've flown 30 or so missions and have a few kills, and I'm yet to see a German 2-seater. Every enemy contact is Halb/Albs with nary a bomber in sight. This strikes me as a little odd, I'm certain it's not historically accurate.

 

2) Why am I being assigned to lead flights? I've checked the box that says 'lead according to rank' or some such thing, because I don't want to lead the flight into enemy territory on my second mission thankyouverymuch, but so far I'm assigned to lead maybe 40% of missions.

 

Are these known errors? Are there ways of fixing them? They're both detracting from the feel of the game (which is overall excellent by the way).

[Wayfarer 5]

Just flying to and from the Lines in OFF, and drinking in the experience of the lovely planes, the tremendous scenery and cloudscapes, and the roar of your engine almost drowning out the drum-fire you can see going on in the desolate, shell-swept landscape below, is an experience which can fill the senses all on its own; marvellous and not to be missed ... would not have believed I could have got so much enjoyment from a sortie in a combat flightsim where not a shot was fired in anger, apart from some Archie. What can I say, but 'wow!

 

33Lima, you've summed it up very nicely. After over a year (real time) flying BE2s, it's what I think of as 'OFF therapy'!

Edited June 13, 2011 by Wayfarer

[Olham 164]

Welcome to the OFF Forum, FreakyStyley!

After reading Arthur Gould Lee's "No Parachute", I think I remember, that they changed flight leaders

in turns, and if memory doesn't fail me, a more experienced Lieutenant might have lead a Captain?

Hope the historians can clear that better.

 

I have only been flying the D.F.W. C.V as a German bomber in OFF, and we always operated very high;

14.000 - 19.000 feet.

You should find them there - if you find them.

Later in the war, you can find the Hannover also lower - I have intercepted them flying the SPAD XIII.

So they are definitely there.

 

Would you send me a PM with your town and country? I'd like to add you to the "OFF Forum Pilots Maps".

Edited June 13, 2011 by Olham

[+Polovski 456]

As the guys say 2 seaters especially German tend to fly high - get up there first if you like (you can also tweak mission altitude settings in workshop for your flights).

Plus we are still making OFF there are dozens of aircraft we'd like in there but they take a lot of time to make and implement in the sim. One day we may have dozens of more squads in there flying other 2 seaters etc. Try another area of the front where it's busier, (or maybe more 2 seater squads near) or try later in the war where more flights occur and more meetings - one good thing in OFF you have nearly 300 squads to choose from.

 

As above sometimes you may be chosen to lead anyway, do what your commander says!

 

Also on some ground attack missions you will lead as some AI are not as disciplined and tend to want to go for other targets otherwise, they need you to keep them in check and target for them.

 

There's one or two sections on most of this this in the FAQ. For example under "1.2) Game Play Hints" mentions lead flight items.

[FreakyStyley 0]

Thanks for the helpful replies.

 

Regarding altitude, I fly at operational ceiling wherever possible - in the Pup this means roughly 18k feet. Are the 2 seaters really flying higher than this or am I just in the wrong part of the lines? I was always of the opinion that there were far more 2 seaters in operation than single seaters on both sides of the war, maybe I'm wrong about that. I would love to bag a bomber or two.

 

As for leading flights, I had no idea leadership was rotated. It just feels plain wrong for myself - a Sergeant - to lead a Captain in to battle on my second flight. I understand the AI restrictions on ground attack missions but for offensive patrols I don't think I'll ever get used to it.

 

I'll do as a few people suggested and read the FAQ. Thanks.

[Lewie 7]

Actually one of the most common German two seaters of the early to mid war is coming in P4, the Aviatik. There was such a diversity of German two seaters, but really, they were so close to one another in performance that one plane could cover for a lot of the different makes. It's what I noticed about Western Front patch when they added the additional two seaters from 1915 onwards, that the various Rumplers and such were really not much different from the venerable old Aviatik in performance, and defensive weaponry.

 

One note about the present BE2, at least in 1915-1916 Campaigns, is it does well when you pick your fights. You can actually give an Einie a hard time by fighting it out close at lower elevations, especially if you have Bristol Scouts that are escorting. If you are good, you'll save the lives of a few Bristol pilots. Same thing for the 'arry Tate, it can be flown well offensively just like a slower Bristol FB2, if, you pick your situations well.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Lewie

[Lewie 7]

Thanks for the helpful replies.

 

Regarding altitude, I fly at operational ceiling wherever possible - in the Pup this means roughly 18k feet. Are the 2 seaters really flying higher than this or am I just in the wrong part of the lines? I was always of the opinion that there were far more 2 seaters in operation than single seaters on both sides of the war, maybe I'm wrong about that. I would love to bag a bomber or two.

 

As for leading flights, I had no idea leadership was rotated. It just feels plain wrong for myself - a Sergeant - to lead a Captain in to battle on my second flight. I understand the AI restrictions on ground attack missions but for offensive patrols I don't think I'll ever get used to it.

 

I'll do as a few people suggested and read the FAQ. Thanks.

 

Once you get used to the way the game spawns enemy flights you'll start noticing a certain pattern evolve, I hate to say that you can 'game' the sim this way, but you can. This is why I often 'customize' my sorties. Because the game will always set you up for an enemy encounter at one or more of your waypoints. It's a CFS3 thing. If it gets too annoying, you can always set your encounter levels to low in Workshops.

[Olham 164]

It just feels plain wrong for myself - a Sergeant - to lead a Captain in to battle on my second flight.

From Julius Buckler's book "Malaula!" I know, that he was a very well trained and naturally talented pilot.

Being from a poor workers' family, he didn't have the A-level nor had he been on a college, and such

pilots would not be Leutnant, but Vizefeldwebel. Still though, the Leutnants in his Staffel felt secure,

when he was the flight leader, and they let him do. Buckler was a man who gave his best, and so they

helped him to get the rank of a Leutnant. The Great War was the time, when class barriers began to fall,

and the air forces were, where that happened first, I think.

[+Polovski 456]

Lewie sorry but it is NOT a CFS3 thing. There are NO spawns in OFF. They are disabled by us, this is an important point.

 

ALL flights are on their OWN missions, totally generated by OFF Manager. Sorry but this is one of our important features we are proud of so have to correct that.

 

You may meet craft in the same area often because there is a very active squadron in that area. It is NOT because they are spawned there, unless of course if you are bypassing the OFF manager to launch missions or you are flying CFS3 QC option then that may be different.

 

If you warp a lot you will often meet enemies, if you fly with no aids, and no warp you will often miss each other.

[33LIMA 972]

FWIW in my last-but-one mission (second in an SE5 56 Sqdn campaign, starting in March '17) we escorted a trio of FE2s to bomb a Hun aerodrome a good few miles 'over'. Having climbed to height (about 8,000 feet) we swept in ahead and above them in true 'Freijagd' style rather than staying close. Dunno what happened but I lost them for a bit then saw one come in much lower and bomb the 'drome, followed, much to my relief, by the other two. By that time I was keeping an eye on some aeroplanes higher and to the east. These turned out to be a couple of V-strutters, along with a group of DFWs, up at about 9,000 feet and heading west, presumably on a bombing mission, or maybe an important photo recce job. So they do happen, on both sides.

 

Bear in mind that much of the 'tactical' bombing on the Western Front in the last 2 years or so of the war, by both sides, was done at night, under cover of darkness. What was done in daylight, was probably done more by the Allies than the Germans, due to the latter's more defensive posture, for much of the war. Based on what I've read, notably AG Lee's 'No Parachute' & 'Open Cockpit', and JTB McCudden's 'Flying Fury', the sort of Hun two-seaters I reckon we should see should mostly be (i) singly or in small numbers at medium altitude near the lines, doing artillery observation or photo-recce or (i) singly at VERY high altitude (c.20,000 feet) on longer-range photo-recce missions (the typical Rumpler mission, maybe we will see this in OFF P4 which has a Rumpler CIV IIRC). In the last year or so you would also have met CL types or J types low down near the lines on 'close support' duties. Personally I would think it fairly unrealistic to come across German 2-seaters out on daylight bombing operations, more than rarely. Likewise Gothas, Friedrichshafens or AEG types, or Gigants, which were mainly creatures of the night, apart from the former's early London raids.

 

'Independent Force' daylight bombing missions and intercepts would be a nice future addition, but that would require DH9s (or even a DH4, as 55 Sqdn did better with the 'obsolescent 'Fours' than the unfortunate units flying 'Nines') and maybe an SSW DIII or DIV.

 

TBH I'm not sure the sim's been invented, or will be for some time, that isn't better flown/driven/fought from the role of a junior team leader. Unless it's rigidly pre-programmed, I doubt even very clever AI could do a particularly convincing job in that role, whether it is a flight leader, a tank troop commander, or an infantry section commander. None that I've ever seen anyway. IL2 for example tries its best but can do little more than lead you to and from waypoints and yell at you to get back into formation if you veer off, tactics are limited to going hell for leather at the nearest enemy. An AI flight leader who practices the Boelcke Dicta and who can tell you what you did wrong when/if you're back in the Mess would be great but I'm not holding my breath. Acting as a flight leader adds a whole new dimension to most sims and as has been pointed out OFF provides you the tools to do the job well enough.

Edited June 13, 2011 by 33LIMA

[Hasse Wind 46]

For more realistic mission types, I warmly recommend Bletchley's mods for OFF P3. Among other things, they change the number of aircraft assigned to missions, so that for example if you're flying as a German two-seater pilot, you'll be flying alone more often than in flights of four or more machines.

[33LIMA 972]

For more realistic mission types, I warmly recommend Bletchley's mods for OFF P3. Among other things, they change the number of aircraft assigned to missions, so that for example if you're flying as a German two-seater pilot, you'll be flying alone more often than in flights of four or more machines.

 

Good tip, will check out that one.

[themightysrc 5]

"Lewie sorry but it is NOT a CFS3 thing. There are NO spawns in OFF. They are disabled by us, this is an important point."

 

Worth repeating. Given that it's a preface to every session in OFF P3, there in front of one's eyes, I'm sure we should all have sussed this one by now!

[Lewie 7]

"Lewie sorry but it is NOT a CFS3 thing. There are NO spawns in OFF. They are disabled by us, this is an important point."

 

Worth repeating. Given that it's a preface to every session in OFF P3, there in front of one's eyes, I'm sure we should all have sussed this one by now!

 

Ah I stand corrected. I guess I was seeing the 09:00 Arras front Pfalz balloon shoot as being far too regular in occurrence.