How to test if my kills are being registered?

[Javito1986 14]

I just flamed a Fokker DVII. He burned, black smoke, went careening about the sky, I left him (but didn't bother to wait for him to crash, would've taken too long).

 

Back home, nada! Not even a claim form

 

I'll accept if something just went awry and he somehow survived, but is there a way I can test this to make sure my pilot's kills are being properly registered?

[Javito1986 14]

I reviewed the mission in the Manager and it seems the Fokker never crashed after lighting on fire.

 

But how in the world is that possible? I know sometimes you can have the flames doused, I've seen that happen more than once, but this guy was a bleeding inferno when I left him. Thick black smoke all over the sky, I know the difference between someone who's done for and otherwise.

 

I ended up going into warp before the Fokker actually crashed, could that have something to do with it?

[TaillyHo 2]

Bad luck there, Javito.

I've never used warp on account of reading lots of weird (often bad) things that can happen. Maybe you just added another one.

 

 

[+elephant 36]

Are you using HPW new DM mod?

I have too noticed the return of the everlasting fires lately...

Flamed planes that wonder around, like for ever!

HPW is working to fix this.

You may consider those planes written off, but unfortunately, the sim doesn't nor the AI.

I had to re enable subtitles, to get a written message wheather I am or not taking credit on such kills.

Here is an example from my last Campaign:

 

 

 

Fuel tank is exploding, (fuel tank in Albatros is located just in front of pilot), this should normally trigger an instant pilot kill!

Instead, the plane kept flying and manoeuvring, in flames.

A second pass was needed to rip of it's wings and thus sent it down...

[Javito1986 14]

I am indeed using the new DM. That could well be it, I've seen other flamers that wandered around aimlessly and even seemed to continue flying.

 

So, even if a flamer crashes it won't be counted as your kill unless you pump more bullets into it?

[+elephant 36]

I think it counts, only if you put the last bullet in...

Usually the AI or flak is finally taking the flamer down and thus you are loosing credit...

[Olham 164]

Guys, Herr Prop-Wasche and also Winder are already aware of this, and seeking for a workaround.

 

As it is now, the new FM and DM are still great.

You just need to shoot a wing of the damn flamers to bring them really down.

 

The claim file does not come up, when

 

a) the craft never crashed

 

b) when you have no witnesses near you

Edited July 25, 2011 by Olham

[77Scout 3]

If the enemy plane crashes and you were the last to shoot it, CSF3 will normally record that as a kill and then OFF should give you the clim form to fill out.

 

I have a very strong suspicion that the OFF manager has absolutely no idea whether there are witnesses nearby or not, so I have my doubts that witnesses are a factor

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

So, even if a flamer crashes it won't be counted as your kill unless you pump more bullets into it?

I think you will get credit for a kill if the airplane crashes, the problem is that some flamers take a long time to crash! Actually, all flamers eventually crash, but it can take a very long time unless you shoot off a wing.

 

As Elephant said, I am working on a fix, but with the new Ultimate DM, it is proving to be difficult. Looks like the only solution will be to significantly reduce the chances of an aircraft catching on fire. Pity, because it adds a certain gut-clenching feeling to the game to see a wingmate or an opponent going down in flames.

[Olham 164]

I have a very strong suspicion that the OFF manager has absolutely no idea whether there are witnesses nearby or not,

so I have my doubts that witnesses are a factor

 

Well, I am flying OFF for some years now, and saw these situations:

 

A. I have wingmen around me and make a kill - and get a claims form

 

B. I had wingmen with me, but got driven away from them so far that I can't see them any more; I made a kill -

but either get no claims form, or the form comes up, but the claim is getting rated as "Erroneus"

 

C: I make the first kill with wingmen near me, and later a second, with no one near - I get a claim form

and can fill in the first kill; but when I fill in the second, it is rated "Erroneus".

After deleting the second line, the claim is accepted

 

To me, that indicates, that the OFF Manager is well aware of my company.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Olham

[TSmoke 2]

I'm going to say that Olham is 100% right, with the ABC's he has listed there. Have noticed exactly the same things many times.

 

As for the endless flamers well they really suck and the AI will still shoot at them even though they are flames from front to back. As long as it's burning I'm not going to waste the bullets on a dead plane just so I see it crash to get the credit. As long as that flamer doesn't shoot at me it's left alone.

 

But as I don't normally use mods and have been using the Damage Mod the number of flamers seems to have increased by an easy 50% over stock. That maybe because the Damage Mod forces you to shoot more accurately?? I don't know diddly about that, but I shoot more for the engine and pilot now.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

I also agree with Olham's outline concerning claims and kills, with the following observation, (just to throw one more factor into the mix): On rare occasions you will be allowed to put in a claim when it appears you have no witnesses from your flight anywhere in sight, and I have on those occasions listed "Allied ground unit" as the witness. I have been awarded kills three times in the past in this situation.

 

.

[Olham 164]

Yep, correct - I forgot that one. Happened to me too - but as you say; not so often.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

There are too many flamers in my latest Damage Mod. However, I am working on an update which should reduce them substantially and reduce the number of "ghost" flamers.

[77Scout 3]

So guys, you are saying that if I fly off on my own, away from my wingmates, and shoot down an enemy plane with no witnesses then I will absolutely NOT get a claim form at the end of my mission? I would have to test this, but I am pretty sure I have gotten claim forms just about every time I make a kill, whether I am with my flight or off by myself. I too have had to use 'ground troops' in the witness box ... doesn't that case basically prove that proximity of witnesses doesn't affect whether you get a claim form or not?

 

Think also of the programming that would be needed to keep tabs on witnesses. You are implying that CSF3 records the distance to all witnesses at the time of each kill, puts this data into a file somewhere, that the OFF Manager has been programmed by Winder to find this CSF3 data file and use it to decide whether to give you the claim form or not. Well, if Winder tells me that is how he made it work then I will of course believe that. If that is the case I will also be blown away by the programming involved because it would be a hell of a complicated thing to make work as you are describing.

 

 

 

[Olham 164]

We said, you will SOMEtimes get a claim form, often not. Maybe "Lone Wolf" is an exception?

Have you ever watched a "Replay"?

The sim knows, who crashed where, how many rounds I fired or received from enemy E/A.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Olham

[Beastie boy 0]

Hi guys,

 

 

 

i have had very different experiences, I have had a lot of lone wolf patrols and had at least 20 kills in visual of witnesses, noth Allied and Axis both in the air and on the ground, and NEVER had any of them accepted, in fact my claim per acceptance ratio is less than 5%.

 

I don;t know if it's the way i word my claims, but i have the Lat and long of the start of the engagement, and the crash site, i have any witnesses in there, i have the aircraft description, and the burst lengths in there, and still they get turned down.

 

Is there a successful recipe for what to put into a claim form? I always get a form even when i had no witnesses. As ofr how this worked, It didn't matter if you had witnesses or not any opilot on either side could put in a claim. If it turned out it was a divided kill then they got 1/2 kill or some fraction of a kill. The way the claim system is used in OFF is way broken. If it knows who shot how many bullets into what Aircraft as you say it does then

then all of the claims made should be accpeted, what noone has confirmed is if it knows who the witnesses are, if not then why do you need one? you could put anything in there, like the great Spaghetti monter in the sky and the sim wouldn't know the difference.

 

 

 

I know in WW1 it was difficult to get even the most plainly good kill accepted, that's why as patrols rarely wandered far from the home airfield that the pilots landed if possible and cut out tial nombers etc as proof or actually landed at base got in a truck / car and searched for their kills to get the physical proof, That isn't moddled in OFF, Would be good if it wast hough, even if it was a cut scene or just a selection option. Most of the time all the pilots had was a crooss on a mpa, after all they didn;t have time in a dog fight to write down all the facts OFF seemed to need. Well i suppose they could try but they'd be dead kind of hard to fly with no hands wor wrtie one handed i would think, especially if you are being shot at form either the air or the ground. Try it some time get in a dog fight 1 v2, kill one and see how long you can write down the markings, the EXACT position etc.

 

 

The claims system needs an overhaul to either make it more user friendly, or according to you guys, Manfred got 80 CONFIRMED kills, so he actually shot down hundreds? I don't think so, maybe 10% got turned down maybe a bit more, but he and Voss did a lot of lone wolfing, at least acording to what i have read about them. Also think on this, we have an advantage in lables if you use them, they didn,t also hwo in the hell are you supposed to know who is flying what plane? You could put down your wingman as a witness but he could have been a mile away in his own dogfight, maybe a system could be used to get a chance based witness signature on the claim? I don't know, but it's damned frustrating shooting down 20 kills and only getting 1 confirmed, It just isn't relaistic, with all the inteligence that was shared by both sides, more often than not a kill was confirmed by the other side abnd sent by message drops to the other side, so records could be kept up.

 

 

My two peneth worth any rate It's broken badlt and needs a fixin, or at least a stramlined form so you know what you have to record to even have a chance to get a claim accepted.

[Olham 164]

BeastyBoy, 5 percent acceptance is definitely too little.

 

You may not know this: you must never use any semicolons in your claim form!

It works as a stop sign in the programming text, and the claim will never be read

beyond the semicolon. Stop using them, and you should get far more confirmations.

 

For example, in the above text you wrote "don;t" with a semicolon instead "don't" -

if you do that in a claim, it is wasted.

 

Now, I wish you much better success for the future.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Olham

[+Polovski 460]

Yes OFF does track what you do - we can only use some data in P3, but P4 mmmmmm..

 

Check your claim settings in Workshop, but on default setting you need to enter details about your kill - this has been covered many times in the forum so best to search.

 

 

Also see

http://www.overflandersfields.com/FAQ.htm#MISCELLANEOUS_QUESTIONS Answer A35

 

Also see

 

"4) Claims for kills" under section "1.2) Game Play Hints"

[Shiloh 12]

I get roughly 60-70% successful claims which I think is pretty average here - please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

One thing I always do is write down every name for both my flight, and flight 1 as well as you will often get involved in scraps with them fighting by your side. Then when you file a claim, list every one of those names in the witnesses section separated by commas with no ranks. Make sure you enter the time the craft went down - hit z on your keyboard - to get an accurate time and hit m for map so you can pinpoint where the claim occurred (ie; southwest of Arras OR northwest of Habsheim airfield). And it seems like you know to list the squadron by using labels to confirm and the type of aircraft. Once I shoot someone down, sometimes I pause the game F10 to look around and see who is in the area and to check all other information.

 

Follow these few tips Beastie and take whatever else you've learned and your claims will go up - good luck.

[Javito1986 14]

@HPW, I'm not sure if I agree that "too many" flamers is the problem, though I suppose it depends on how you define "too many". I've been reading a lot of High in the Empty Blue's August/September 1918 entries and a fair amount of the 56 Squadron claims were flamers. Not all surely, not even close to all, but a fair amount, which is what I see with your latest DM.

 

Also I'm happy to report that I did get a claim form for a different flaming Fokker DVII I scored on a flight two days ago. I didn't warp during the mission, perhaps that has something to do with it, or perhaps someone else jumped in on the kill I mentioned in the original post and stole it from me. I don't really know.

 

The burning pyres thing is a problem, planes definitely take too long to go down when they're on fire, but from what I've read the frequency of the fires is accurate.

 

Of course I'm no grog, and I know you and other modders here have researched things like this more thoroughly than I have, so I'd be interested in your opinion on it.

 

Cheers

[TSmoke 2]

The debate on how to fill out the forms and what wording ect. to use has gone on many times before.

 

If any one is having lousy claim rates, it is on how the form is filled out and information given.

 

 

 

Best bet is to search the claims form issue and take an hour to read up on it some.

Use the replay feature to replay some of the missions you complete and you maybe suprised the amount of info that is played back for you. It will aslo tell you who put in the final rounds to bring that target down, where and when.

 

There is also the option of not having to fill out a form if the paper work is a PITA for you. IF you killed it, it will be awarded as your kill in a few days using the no claim form option.

[Olham 164]

Here I post one of my claims - it is how I usually write them, more or less.

The red part is, what I actually filled in; the rest is getting added by the OFF Manager, when it saves the claim.

 

Note: all semicolons are getting added by OFF Manager - they are used internally as program marks.

You should NEVER USE SEMICOLONS in the text you write.

When you are not sure about the exact aircraft type you shot down, select "single seat" or "two-seater".

 

26/;6/;1917 ;10h;28 ;Flanders ;Proville ;Balloon Busting ; Flying: Albatros DV (Uprated).

On this day claims: ;1 ;Nieuport 17 lewis . ;Our mission target was the enemy balloon base 692 southwest of Cambrai.

Arriving near the spotter, we got under attack by many British Nieuport 17 Lewis. I chased one craft with blue capital

letters "C" on fuselage and top wing. Although he tried to escape in the clouds, I hit him with some good bursts.

He went down badly smoking at 10:55 h north of the enemy field at Lieramont.

. Witnessed by: Ernst Roesner, Eduard Herzberg, Emil Langenfeld, Josef Dirks, Georg-Josef Kemper Status : Confirmed ;

[Javito1986 14]

Example of how not to write a claim form:

 

 

6/8/1917 8h38 Flanders Liettres Patrol Enemy Front Lines Flying: SE5a Hispano-Suiza. On this day claims: 1 Alb DIII OAW . Hun go boom . Witnessed by: Jack Bostwick Status : Rejected .

[SirMike1983 3]

I agree about the flamers surviving being annoying. I'm looking forward to the fix.

 

As a consolation though, due to the CFS3 engine, you can score cheap kills by putting in a few bullets to finish off an enemy or shoot a stalling enemy that then crashes. I guess it balances out somewhat-- you lose the flamers but pick up the vulch kills. I do think the flamers should go down though. Glad to be doing some flying in the Nieuports again and looking forward to the next DM.