A video of FM problems w Alb C.III and Lloyd

[+quack74 329]

Here is a video of the FM problem I'm having w Stephen1918's two-seaters. I'm using FE2 and the stock FM's with the Alb C.III and the Lloyd. Very strange how the AI dont leave the ground and how they make very sharp turns about 100m outside the airfield at takeoff. They dont stop until they hit something or a hill where they get some air. then the fly up and join me. Also when I do a time skip my plane's airspeed is so low when I arrive that my plane stalls. Any ideas? I've been messing a lot with their FM's but nothing seems to change. Again this seems to only happen with the Alb C.III and the Lloyd.

 

[+ojcar 157]

Hmmmmm.....very strange. This doesn't happen in my computer. Give me some information, please: Have you tried same mission with a DFW or an Aviatik CII? What is the map? Are you using some formation or airfield mods? Have you tried to change the number of planes in mission?. Give me all the data you can and I'll try to fix it.

By the way, There is other people with same issue?

[+quack74 329]

My FE2 is modded like crazy. I couldnt even start to tell you where and how. But all my add-on aircraft work just fine. Even the others made by Stephen1918. It's only these two. If I start in-air they all stay in formation just fine and attack targets. Again ALL other aircraft work. I'm using Peter01 FM's and some I've done myself. Also it doesnt matter how many aircraft per flight and it doesnt matter what terrain I use. I'm stumped.

[+ojcar 157]

I'll try to do my best. I really love WWI planes and this community, but its very difficult, because I can't reproduce the fail until now.....

Give me some time, please, because my dog is in a medical emergency and I can't work on it today. Meanwhile, in the AI data of the planes there is a line that says TakeOffRotationAngle=15.0. I have no idea what's the meaning (copied from the AI of Peter01's Aviatik CII). You can change the number or even delete the line (some planes doesn't have this line). Check also the engine data. Search for the line ThrustPosition=0.0,1.7,0.0. Change it to ThrustPosition=0.0,0.0,0.0. This eliminate the plane torque. Maybe it can be useful. I hope it works. If not, please, tell me and I'll try to fix it when I'll can. Good luck!!!

By the way, the "stalling after autopilot" thing: I think it's because the planes are veery slow to climb, so you force a litle the plane to climb more steeply, so when you hit the autopilot you are nearly stalling, going "warp speed", and when exiting "warp speed" stalling. Same for the exploding Lloyds. Maybe when you hit autopilot, they are crashing because the take off bug, they go war speed and destroying after warp seed (a cazy theory maybe).

Edited August 3, 2011 by ojcar

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

I've been learning about FMs, mostly by comparing the Data.ini's of a variety of planes. I noticed that the Albatros D.III that came with FE1 doesn't have any section for AIData in the data file, but the plane can still be flown by the AI. That tells me that there are default settings somewhere else in the game. The problem you're having occurs when the AI is controlling the plane.

 

Try removing the AIData completely (comment those lines out, but don't delete them) and see if there is still a problem. If the problem goes away, then we know that it's in the AIData - if the problem is still there, then we know that it's something else.

 

If the problem is in the AIData, then uncomment the lines in small batches and play the game. When the problem comes back then we'll know which lines are causing the problem.

 

Stephen1918

[+ojcar 157]

What Stephen says is a very good idea. Try to delete the AI data, or maybe you can substitute the AI data for one by a plane that works. I can't fix it, beacuse in my PC both planes takes off flawlessly. Maybe there is a conflict with a certain airfield, I don't know. If I can't reproduce the fail, I can't do trial and error test with the planes.....

 

Another idea! You can try to make easier the take off. In the data.ini, search for the [LeftMainGear], [RightMainGear] and [TailGear] entries. Look for the RollingCoefficient and play a little with the numbers. This entries increase or decrease some drag to the gears. If you decrease this drag, the planes would accelerate better for take off, making it easier. Maybe the AI is struggling a little to taking off these heavy and underpowered planes.

 

More important and once again: there are some more people having this bug? Until now, I know about Quack only, as Stephen and me have the planes working well. People, give me some more input. I really hate releasing bugged planes!!!

 

****By the way, my dog is alive but hospitalized after an spleenecthomy...

Edited August 5, 2011 by ojcar

[Heck 496]

No problems here. AI take off is normal. It's got to be a modded file somewhere else. I don't think the problem resides in the aircraft data.ini.

[33LIMA 972]

These limited observations are based on a couple of Albatros CIII single missions in FE2, at Hard FM (understand the AI flies Normal FM even then).

 

Own plane and AI planes (2-4) all took off ok.

 

Takeoff run was long. In Flanders terrain, the AI planes seemed nearly to reach the airfield boundary before finally unsticking (I watched them go before taking off myself). My own plane only just made it, had to pull her off the ground and got stall buffet sound till I was above tree height and could ease the stick forward (I know the trees are 'ghosts' but still!).

 

In Cambrai terrain, much the same, except MAYBE the AI got airborne a bit easier, maybe not. Still a very long run (compared to scouts anyway, as it should be, but also to the field length)

 

I wonder if on takeoffs on any airfield or in any direction with a short run before the trees, the AI don't make it and the sim somehow prevents them getting unstuck unless they manage it inside the airfield boundary - even if the trees don't impede them. Strange.

 

PS glad the dog made it, hope he does well from here.

Edited August 5, 2011 by 33LIMA

[+ojcar 157]

So, the RollingCoefficient change could be useful. It shortens a little the take off lenght...

[33LIMA 972]

So, the RollingCoefficient change could be useful. It shortens a little the take off lenght...

 

...maybe useful also also for those 3rd party planes stated to be 'optimised' to fly on 'Normal' FM - with the [player] FM set at 'Hard', I find some of these planes - the Bristol F2B for example - stay stuck to the ground when you try to take off, some of them move forward very slowly, others sort of 'waddle' on the spot as you open the throttle, while the AI planes, flying on their default 'Normal' FM presumably, manage to take off. Sort of the reverse of this problem.

[33LIMA 972]

Quick comparison of RollingCoefficient:

 

Bristol F2B (3rd party planes which doesn't move on takeoff if flown by player on 'Hard' FM):

 

Left and Right main gear = 0.35 Tail gear = 1.0

 

Nieuport 28 (3rd party plane which takes off ok in above situation, maybe not quite as sprightly as the stock planes but fine):

 

Left and Right main gear = 0.25 Tail gear = 0.7

 

Albatros CIII (3rd party plane which also takes off ok in above situation, observations as above):

 

Left and Right main gear = 0.06 Tail gear = 0.70

[33LIMA 972]

PS just changed the BrisFit's RollingCoefficient numbers from 0.35 to 0.30 (main gear) and from 1.0 to 0.8 (tail) and I can now take off! The tail seems to be the one that made the difference - initial acceleration was VERY slow (better than not moving at all, as before the change) but as soon as I could get the tail up, she accelerated away quite smartly! Will reduce the tail to 0.7 or 0.75 which should do the trick.

[33LIMA 972]

PPS reducing the Brisfit tail RollingCoefficient a bit more didn't help much but now have all three at N28 settings and she takes off slowly but fine, tho not keeping up with the AI till she's airborne. Will apply this to all other 3rd party planes that won't takeoff on Hard FM - the Sopwith Triplane is another one.

 

Thanks for the tip Ojcar!

[Bulldog 0]

 

More important and once again: there are some more people having this bug?

 

 

Nope, no problems here so far.

 

Edit: I should have mentioned I'm using FE2.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Bulldog

[+ojcar 157]

I suggest to change only the RollingCoefficient (try with 0.02 or 0.01) from the right and left main gear. Don't touch the tail gear one. After all, you'll need some drag to landing and in the take off, the plane rises the tail (it seems this angle is managed by TakeOffRotationAngle, maybe you can tune this as well).

Edited August 6, 2011 by ojcar

[pcm 0]

No problems with me either. Verdun, Cambrai and Flanders CIIIs all have long take off runs, and struggle to achieve height. It's quite heart stopping at times, and adds to overall effect. I use FEG on XP SP3.

[+ojcar 157]

Quack, any of the tips in this thread is useful? Please, tell me something and I'll update the FMs.

[+NeverEnough 78]

I changed the LeftMainGear and RightMainGear RollingCoefficient to 0.20 and left the TailGear Rolling Coefficient at 0.70, then tested on the Verdun and Cambrai terrains. It worked great for both take offs and landings for the player aircraft and the AI. Using the original values, the plane rolled seemingly forever after landing.

 

Thanks for a really nice model, and I hope Ojcar's pup has a complete and speedy recovery!

[+quack74 329]

Sorry guys I've been really busy. But I fixed the problem by swapping out the [AIDATA] and [FlightControl] parameters of the C.III with the AviatikCII using Peter01's FM. It seemed to do the trick. All the AI take off correctly. I cant say for sure what lines needed to be changed but this is what I changed:

 

[FlightControl]

StallSpeed=24.16

CruiseSpeed=32.29

ClimbSpeed=29.59

CornerSpeed=31.76

LandingSpeed=26.23

MaxG=3.90

MaxSpeedSL=39.79

MachLimit=0.129

 

[AIData]

AileronDeltaRoll=0.8

AileronRollRate=-0.6

ElevatorDeltaPitch=0.9

ElevatorPitchRate=-0.015

ThrottleDeltaSpeed=0.07

ThrottleVelocity=-0.07

MaxPitchForAltitude=20.0

MinPitchForAltitude=-15.0

PitchForThrottle=0.1

PitchForAltitude=0.00087

PitchForVerticalVelocity=-0.024

RollForHeading=3.0

RollForHeadingRate=-0.03

MinRollHeading=5.0

MaxRollForHeading=15.0

PitchForRoll=0.23

FormationSpeedForPosition=0.8

FormationSpeedForRate=0.5

GunnerFireChance=80

GunnerFireTime=2.5

GunnerAimOffset=0.0020

MaxRollCombat=30.0

MaxPitchCombat=24.0

MaxRollFormation=5.0

FormationRollForPosition=0.01

FormationRollForVelocity=0.2

RollForGunAttack=1.0

RollForGunAttackRate=-0.1

RudderForGunAttack=2.0

RudderForHeading=0.2

RudderForYawRate=-0.07

RudderForSideslip=1.3

TakeOffRotationAngle=15.0

PitchDamper=0.35

RollDamper=0.0

YawDamper=0.0

//SideslipDamper=0.0

 

 

These are from the Aviatik C2 and they work for the AlbC.III.

Very strange I was the only one with the problem. Maybe its because I use FE2 not Gold?

Edited August 8, 2011 by quack74

[+ojcar 157]

Nope, my friend, I had tested it in both FE1 Gold and FE2. I'm VERY happy about you have fixed the issue! Same trick for the Lloyd? It seems to be the StallSpeed and ClimbSpeed. All the other numbers seems to be the same.

 

On the other hand, my dog is at home now. She's a little weak, but seems to be well. Doctors are ashtonished she survived the surgery! British Bulldogs are true fighters!

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

Quack74 - I'm glad to see that you got the problem solved, it had me totally stumped.

 

Ojcar - I glad to hear that your dog is doing better. I hope he makes a speedy recovery.