CaptSopwith 18 Posted November 17, 2011 Okay... so I've been flying a German campaign with the new DM installed and I have to say, it's fantastic! The damage in the air feels much more balanced now. I particularly like the coupling of wing failure with engine fires, this dramatically reduces the number of flying incendiary machines in the sim. Also, it seems more "realistic" at least from a logical standpoint. If an aircraft is burning up like a tender box, it would stand to reason (at least for me) that the wings would likely fail due to fire eating through bracings and control wires. I've also been shot down by the enemy and I have to say, the DM is brutally punishing on the receiving end. You cannot linger in front of your enemy - as it should be. Dogfights feel better balanced - they don't perpetuate themselves for too long. They are often quick, very violent, affairs - again, as it should be. So yes, not much else to say without repeating myself. Fantastic job - as always, and I'm really enjoying the alterations! Cheers HPW! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Lothar of the Hill People 6 Posted November 17, 2011 Even if true, it would be a shame, because you have written a really great program that can only get better. I think I have about reached the limit of what I can do with the DM. Thanks, HPW. All your mods together make a huge difference in the OFF experience. Thought about packaging all your DM, news, weather, and skies mods into one easily-installable JSGME package? "HPW's Immersion Mod" or something? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creaghorn 10 Posted November 17, 2011 Thanks, HPW. All your mods together make a huge difference in the OFF experience. Thought about packaging all your DM, news, weather, and skies mods into one easily-installable JSGME package? "HPW's Immersion Mod" or something? i wouldn't recommend a package of mods. i did that in my homebrew compilation and it was IMO a mistake because people can't pick what they need but download first everything before deciding what's necessary. there is also a hughe overhauled news mod with over 300 original heeresberichte etc. which obviously fell through the radar because of beeing just a part of the homebrew file. it would have been better to upload every mod for itself and let the people decide IMO. about the number of downloads. my soundtweak II mod took about a year to get over 500 downloads. you achieved over a hundred in couple weeks. with this pace i think you don't need to be worried Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted November 17, 2011 HPW, I don't get it (I'm very busy & dizzy recently) - the new HPW_UltimateDM_1.25.7z only has a size of 62.16K? Does that mean, it has to get ADDED to the 1.1 one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
33LIMA 972 Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) That had me puzzled, too, but unzipped and installed,1.25 has the same c.950 files and c.19Mb as the 1.1 DM, so all seems well... Edited November 17, 2011 by 33LIMA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SirMike1983 3 Posted November 18, 2011 That had me puzzled, too, but unzipped and installed,1.25 has the same c.950 files and c.19Mb as the 1.1 DM, so all seems well... My result was the same. I did notice the new one is a different zip format though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted November 18, 2011 Yes, new zip format (7zip is much more efficient), but the DM is the same--a completely new DM meant to replace 1.1. I'd say more, but I'm off to teach a class. Ta, ta! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted November 18, 2011 Thanks for clearing that - off to download it now! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted November 18, 2011 Okay... so I've been flying a German campaign with the new DM installed and I have to say, it's fantastic! The damage in the air feels much more balanced now. I particularly like the coupling of wing failure with engine fires, this dramatically reduces the number of flying incendiary machines in the sim. Also, it seems more "realistic" at least from a logical standpoint. If an aircraft is burning up like a tender box, it would stand to reason (at least for me) that the wings would likely fail due to fire eating through bracings and control wires. I've also been shot down by the enemy and I have to say, the DM is brutally punishing on the receiving end. You cannot linger in front of your enemy - as it should be. Dogfights feel better balanced - they don't perpetuate themselves for too long. They are often quick, very violent, affairs - again, as it should be. So yes, not much else to say without repeating myself. Fantastic job - as always, and I'm really enjoying the alterations! Cheers HPW! Thanks so much, CaptSopwith. Glad you are enjoying the DM. I did a lot of work trying to get the "balance" just right for most planes. You can still cripple a plane and leave it flying, but the better you shoot, the more likely you are to hit a critical spot and kill it. I can also confirm that the human player's aircraft engine will stop entirely not only due to lack of fuel, but also loss of oil or coolant, if your oil or coolant reservoirs are hit hard enough by the AI. Unfortunately, I have not been able to confirm that this also happens to the AI. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonOben 55 Posted November 24, 2011 Thanks for the DM update Herr Prop-Wasche! Your previous versions have been excellent and I'm sure the new version is even better! Thank you very much for your dedicated work to improve OFF! S! vonOben Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted November 24, 2011 Thank you for your support! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SirMike1983 3 Posted December 14, 2011 I'm flying this DM and I generally think it quite good. The only issue I've seen so far is that the Eindecker appears to be more robust than a Halb D.II or an Alb D.II. I've consistently had to pour hundreds of rounds into E.IIIs to get even slight damage on them. I've had plenty of Halb and Alb wings come off with concentrated shooting, which I think is about right. I tried the same with E.IIIs and I've never seen an E.III structure fail. I'll grant it isn't scientific, but it seems pretty consistent that the E.III is harder to damage than the Halb or Alb scouts. Is there a value difference in the amount of damage an E.III frame can take compared to later German scouts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Britisheh 0 Posted December 15, 2011 Hi there HPW, Nice to see you still acitve in the DM stuff. I haven't flown in ~~ a year, but will again be adding your DM to my kit. Very impressed with the last one. Cheers, Britisheh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted December 15, 2011 SirMike-- The Eindecker is one of the planes that may have slipped by without a lot of beta testing, so I can't rule out that it may be a little too strong. After I finish up my work on my FM update and update to Lima's AI empty weight mod (should be very soon now, I promise ), I will take a look at it. If anyone knows of any other plane that doesn't feel quite right, be sure to let me know. British_eh-- Good to see you back at the forum and at the aerodrome, old chap! Thank you for using my DM. Cheers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SirMike1983 3 Posted December 15, 2011 Is this something done via a text editor like notepad? I might have a look and compare it to the other period planes to see what is up with it. I used to edit FMs for FS2004 on occasion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted December 15, 2011 Yes, the DM (other than the drawing of the hit boxes) is all managed through text files. Each aircraft folder has a file with an .xdp extension. Open that file with any text editor (I prefer Textpad) and you can see the variables. You will have to compare it with the .xdp files of other planes to get an idea if anything is out of line. My guess is that the hit points for the wings are a bit too high. Try reducing them 10-25%. Also, try to aim for the engine. You may have better luck there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SirMike1983 3 Posted December 16, 2011 Wing values for the EIII are indeed below that of the Halb DII. I dropped them back an addition 8-10%. Already being lower, I went with a conservative approach and did a small drop. The way these values work, do they divide the number up among all the wings? For example I see L wing root and R wing root hit boxes with "points". I changed the points. What it got me to think is whether the # of points given is being divided up among both wings in biplanes, but not with the EIII monoplane (e.g., a biplane with R wing root value 460 would actually be 230 for the lower right wing and 230 for the upper right wing, giving total 460. A monoplane with 460 would have all of that value in the single wing root, making it much harder to destroy. Is that what is happening with these? Or do the biplanes get individualized damaged numbers for each wing, upper and lower? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellshade 110 Posted December 16, 2011 I've been messing around a bit with your new DM HPW and I must say that I enjoy it very much. I think it's difficult to shoot down planes without being impossible. Well done. The only thing I noticed is that it seems like the FM on my trusty Sopwith Triplane can feel a bit "floaty" on occassion. Not sure how that occured with DM changes but considering how good it all works together, I give a high score to the efforts sir. Something to help keep us all tided over until OFF 2.0 shows up, to be certain. Thanks for all that you do. Excellent work! Hellshade Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted December 22, 2011 Wing values for the EIII are indeed below that of the Halb DII. I dropped them back an addition 8-10%. Already being lower, I went with a conservative approach and did a small drop. The way these values work, do they divide the number up among all the wings? For example I see L wing root and R wing root hit boxes with "points". I changed the points. What it got me to think is whether the # of points given is being divided up among both wings in biplanes, but not with the EIII monoplane (e.g., a biplane with R wing root value 460 would actually be 230 for the lower right wing and 230 for the upper right wing, giving total 460. A monoplane with 460 would have all of that value in the single wing root, making it much harder to destroy. Is that what is happening with these? Or do the biplanes get individualized damaged numbers for each wing, upper and lower? That is a good question, Mike. I have assumed that each wing--left-top, left-bottom, right-top, and right-bottom--for a biplane have their own set of two hitboxes--a wing root and a wing-tip hit box, and that each hit box does not share its hit points with any other hit box. This makes for a total of 8 wing hit boxes per biplane. Therefore, the EIII should have a total of 4 wing hit boxes. Does this mean the the EIII has approximately 1/2 the probability of being hit in the wing by a projectile than does a biplane? This alone would give the illusion that the wings on the EIII are stronger. The issue is also somewhat complicated by the fact that the EIII (other than the Bristol Fighter) has one of the largest wing spans and wing surface areas of most other planes in the game. Notice, however, that the wing hit points for both the Sopwith Triplane and the Fokker Dr1 are among the lowest in the game, and yet, their wings do not seem to come off with any greater frequency than the wings on a biplane. This is probably because you are more likely to distribute your bullets among 12 separate wing hit boxes rather than just 4 or 8. At any rate, now that i have finished my FM empty weight mod, I will take a look at issuing an update to my DM to hopefully take care of this issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted December 22, 2011 I've been messing around a bit with your new DM HPW and I must say that I enjoy it very much. I think it's difficult to shoot down planes without being impossible. Well done. The only thing I noticed is that it seems like the FM on my trusty Sopwith Triplane can feel a bit "floaty" on occassion. Not sure how that occured with DM changes but considering how good it all works together, I give a high score to the efforts sir. Something to help keep us all tided over until OFF 2.0 shows up, to be certain. Thanks for all that you do. Excellent work! Hellshade Thanks, Hellshade. I am glad to hear that you have not totally abandoned OFF now that Skyrim has been released. I'm not sure what might be causing your floating Triplane problem, unless you are also using my Allied FM Pack along with the DM. If you are, it may have something to do with my slightly lowering the empty weight of the Triplane to help slow it's dive speed a bit. It may need a further adjustment of its Centers of gravity and lift so that it becomes a little less tail-heavy. I'll take a look at it once i catch my breath. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
