OT My Favourite War Film

[carrick58 23]

Does anyone know the film "The War Lover" with Steve McQueen? Is it any good?

 

Kinda Of: Its a B-17 movie and a Love Story. This the War Part.

 

[+elephant 36]

The siege sequence in Kurosawa's Ran is a real masterpiece!

One film I like and I haven't seen it mentioned too is:

"The Duellists", by Ridley Scott.

 

[Baldric 42]

Red Badge of Courage... I'd forgotten that one. Memphis Belle

[33LIMA 972]

That looks amazing 33 - have you guys ever heard of the "Ohka"? Not to take away from the thread. I first saw one at the Marine museum during my first tour with HMX at Quantico, VA (1980). I was always amazed at the sacrifice the Japanese pilots made with their aircraft, this took it to a whole new level.

 

Yeah the Okha was the craziest of the craziest I suppose; you'll doubtless have seen this Hellcat gun-cam footage then of G4Ms with Okhas being intercepted, the PTO colour gun-cam, ship-cam and ground-cam footage is amongst the most shocking and vivid of WW2, whether colour or B&W:

 

 

..or maybe this one, to get back on topic, as this is a war movie of sorts, albeit a WW2 Japanese dramatisation of the air war for Malaya, with a lot of very clear footage:

 

[Olham 164]

The ground explosions scenes must have been the beta for the later Godzilla films.

[gaw 5]

The siege sequence in Kurosawa's Ran is a real masterpiece!

One film I like and I haven't seen it mentioned too is:

"The Duellists", by Ridley Scott.

 

 

Elephant...........one of Scott's early, and great one's.......gorgeous cinematography and the dueling sequence in the cellar is epic......Rob Roy virtually duplicated the feel of that sword fight....and you'll recognize the choreography of your posted sequence with the the one in Gladiator.....great moments in movies never die....they're redone in another tone

[RamblingSid 3]

Gosh 33LIMA,

 

did those Zeros (if that is what they were - I know, no excuse for ignorance) have aldis sights ?

 

Mr Aldis must have been quids in.

 

Sorry, not an entirely serious comment.

 

Cheers

[RamblingSid 3]

But are Throne of Blood and Ran, great films though they are, war films ?

 

Certainly conflict is a theme.

 

I wouldn't say that either the Scottish play or King Lear are "war plays" or even plays abt war in the way that, say, Saving Private Ryan has the experience of war as its central concern.

 

RamblingSid - boring for Australia !

[Flyby PC 23]

Wow!!

 

All this talk about war films got me thinking, mostly about Peter Jackson, Dambusters, and his fascination with WW1 aircraft. I believe Dambusters is rolling on, but what I didn't know was that Peter Jackson actually owned the Vintage Aviator Workshops in New zealand who produce such wonderful pictures of the restored WW1 aircraft we all enjoy.

 

I think it's both remarkable and spooky that Peter Jackson should have such a love of vintage warplanes, and also become famous on the back of the Lord of the Rings films. Tolkein denied LOTR's was an allegory for his experiences in the WW1 trenches, but many commentators still wonder about that, in particular the references to the dead marshes and flying "Fell beasts".

 

 

Who says history is dead? It's never been more alive or better animated. Yes, I know, bad films spoil it, but all the same we are getting to see things previous generations had to be actually there to see.

 

 

Imagine if someone invented a time machine, and J. R. Tolkein and Peter Jackson could meet up for a beer and a chat. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear that conversation. Mind you, if someone invented a time machine, we'd probably have to invite H. G. Wells along too...., and if I was a fly, then George Langelaan might want to be there too (he wrote the Fly short story made into the Jeff Goldblum film))...

 

On that subject, if it hasn't been mentioned already, is Lord of the Rings count as a war film x 3? If it does/they do, then they're on my list.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Wow!!

 

All this talk about war films got me thinking, mostly about Peter Jackson, Dambusters, and his fascination with WW1 aircraft. I believe Dambusters is rolling on, but what I didn't know was that Peter Jackson actually owned the Vintage Aviator Workshops in New zealand who produce such wonderful pictures of the restored WW1 aircraft we all enjoy.

 

I think it's both remarkable and spooky that Peter Jackson should have such a love of vintage warplanes, and also become famous on the back of the Lord of the Rings films. Tolkein denied LOTR's was an allegory for his experiences in the WW1 trenches, but many commentators still wonder about that, in particular the references to the dead marshes and flying "Fell beasts".

 

 

Who says history is dead? It's never been more alive or better animated. Yes, I know, bad films spoil it, but all the same we are getting to see things previous generations had to be actually there to see.

 

 

Imagine if someone invented a time machine, and J. R. Tolkein and Peter Jackson could meet up for a beer and a chat. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear that conversation. Mind you, if someone invented a time machine, we'd probably have to invite H. G. Wells along too...., and if I was a fly, then George Langelaan might want to be there too (he wrote the Fly short story made into the Jeff Goldblum film))...

 

On that subject, if it hasn't been mentioned already, is Lord of the Rings count as a war film x 3? If it does/they do, then they're on my list.

 

I think Lord of the Rings is more to do with Greed, environmental destruction, and friendship/Kinship than a War film.

 

Tolkein was a real genius, when it came to spotting all the sh*t that was going on around him..he was clearly very 'Anti-City'...for which, he has my vote

[Olham 164]

Yes, I also think that "Lord of the Rings" is mainly about the "temptation of taking the easy way",

which is the way of greed; the destructive way we humans have so far mostly always chosen.

And he paints so masterly the pictures, that we understand very well, that we might also rather

fall for our greed, that we would also rather take the easy way - instead of fighting Frodo's fight;

despite having friends, he feels cold and lonesome with his gigantic task towards the end;

he is tempted more than one time, and how easy, how damn easy could it be if he gave up

and took the easy way. And how terrible the result.

Not even the great Gandalf would dare to take the ring - because of the immense size of this

temptation of power.

[33LIMA 972]

Gosh 33LIMA,

 

did those Zeros (if that is what they were - I know, no excuse for ignorance) have aldis sights ?

 

Mr Aldis must have been quids in.

 

Sorry, not an entirely serious comment.

 

Cheers

 

The two Japanese fighter types featured in the 'propaganda film' were the Nakajima Ki-27 (with the Stuka-style spatted undercart) and its successor, the Nakajima Ki43 Hayabusa (the more Zero-like plane). Both often carried an Aldis-type sight (tho the Ki-43's featured in the clip from 'For Those We Love' doing Kamikaze attakcs lacked these from memory.

 

I'm currently reading Grub Street's 'Bloody Shambles' on the 1941-42 SE Asian campaigns and both types did fairly well against AVG P40s and RAF and Dutch Buffaloes and even Hurricanes, tho often thru superior numbers, no disrespect to the often highly skilled Japanese Army Air Force pilots who flew them.

 

If it's any consolation the Ki-43 was often identified as a Zero by the Allied pilots!

 

Both types can be flown in IL2-46 and the versions with the 'Aldis' have this cap over the outer end of the sight that you have to hit a key to swing aside!

[Capitaine Vengeur 263]

How about this one, For Those We Love; has anybody seen this?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVlZizY_ubw

 

Maybe these are the only flying/action sequences in the whole movie but I think they are brilliant - FAR better than the usual Pearl Harbour-style CGI rubbish and include some colourised actual WW2 sequences (or sequences closely modelled on them).

 

Always had an interest in Hayabusas, Hiens, Zero-sens and the whole Japanese WW2 aviation thing, and the Divine Wind operation, so might pick this up if it's any good and is available in the UK (preferably with subtitles tho they are strictly superfluous in the above sequence).

 

Even if (to borrow from Nicholas 'Cruel Sea' Monsarrat's preface to Schaeffer's 'U-Boat 977') you would not touch any apologia for Japanese WW2 militarism with a depth-charge, this looks promising.

The authentic footages of Kamikaze attacks are to me the most stunning pictures of WW2. These few antiquated, overloaded crates, falling from the clouds or grazing the waves, facing countless tracks of blinding dots, smoking bushes of exploding light shells, forests of geysers, desperately trying to reach their own obliteration, to fulfill beliefs that will stay for ever imprvious to the Western understanding... Spirit versus matter; we can see today which side has prevailed. I find these footages a hypnotic effect; many poor American sailors frozen on their legs, unable to run while seeing the death aiming at them, may have had the same last impression.

 

The second most stunning pictures of WW2 to me are the incredible footages recorded by the valiant German pilots attacking the huge combat boxes of Flying Fortresses over Europe. Countless incoming tracks of deadly .50 slugs hatching the pure sky from the one side, just two aimed tracks from the lens's side drawing a dotted line of fire and fragments from an engine to another one, and a maimed giant falls. These guys had guts, and more than one survived just long enough to see them repaint his own cockpit... For a while, "Memphis Belle" may have been my favourite war movie, but I felt quite disappointed by a more recent viewing.

[33LIMA 972]

The authentic footages of Kamikaze attacks are to me the most stunning pictures of WW2. These few antiquated, overloaded crates, falling from the clouds or grazing the waves, facing countless tracks of blinding dots, smoking bushes of exploding light shells, forests of geysers, desperately trying to reach their own obliteration, to fulfill beliefs that will stay for ever imprvious to the Western understanding... Spirit versus matter; we can see today which side has prevailed. I find these footages a hypnotic effect; many poor American sailors frozen on their legs, unable to run while seeing the death aiming at them, may have had the same last impression.

 

I know exactly what you mean; the reason I was so impressed by the clip from 'For those we love' is that it reproduces those scenes so authentically. To me the most hypnotic of the Kamikaze attacks filmed is the one at about 2.09 of this one; if you want a definition of sheer, unadulterated courage, I can think of no better example than that short clip of a torpedo-laden B6N Tenzan staggering over the vaves the last few hundred feet to its target, under a hail of point-blank AA fire that is churning the sea and air around it into a living inferno, yet he just keeps on coming. Not to diminish the bravery of those under attack, not least the guy who kept on filming the whole thing, but the chap(s) on that plane were as brave as they come; balls of steel:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5slCTLrFHI

Edited March 8, 2012 by 33LIMA

[RamblingSid 3]

Hi 33LIMA,

 

and thanks for info.

 

Ki 43 a nice looking plane I must say.

 

Must do some reading on Japanese a/force in WW2.

 

They certainly gave the allies a run for their money - early doors anyway.

 

It's a paradox isn't it - the worst brings out the best...

 

Cheers

[BirdDogICT 3]

Hi 33LIMA,

 

and thanks for info.

 

Ki 43 a nice looking plane I must say.

 

Must do some reading on Japanese a/force in WW2.

 

They certainly gave the allies a run for their money - early doors anyway.

 

It's a paradox isn't it - the worst brings out the best...

 

Cheers

I'm far from an expert on Japanese military history, but considering that

1) when the emperor is god,

2) and the Bushido tradition requires unquestioning loyalty to one's daimyo or feudal lord,

3) and the emporer's generals dictate a "Divine Wind" to obliterate the Americans,

4) it was considered an honor to participate..

 

I wouldn't kill myself for my political leaders...hell, I wouldn't vote for half of them.

[von Baur 54]

Parallels between The Lord of the Rings and Star Wars (focussing on episodes IV, V and VI):

 

the triumph of the simple agrarian society (Hobbits/Ewoks, who played a decisive role in aiding the rebels to disable the protective force field) over the massive industrialized one

 

a good wizard (Gandalf/Obi-wan and later the Jedi Luke) versus the evil wizard, corrupted by his power (Sauron/Darth Vader)

 

the heroes are individuals (Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Legolas, Elrond, Eowyn, etc/Luke, Leia, Han, Chewbacca, even the machines R2-D2 and C-3PO) while, except for the main few, the villains are collectives (primarily the Orcs and the Nazgul/Imperial Stormtroopers)

 

one could even make a case for the ultimate evil (the Ring/the emperor) being destroyed in a fall...although that might be stretching a bit the imagery is still the same

 

 

I'm rather certain Lucas had a copy of LotR somewhere.

[Capitaine Vengeur 263]

Parallels between The Lord of the Rings and Star Wars (focussing on episodes IV, V and VI):

 

the triumph of the simple agrarian society (Hobbits/Ewoks, who played a decisive role in aiding the rebels to disable the protective force field) over the massive industrialized one

 

a good wizard (Gandalf/Obi-wan and later the Jedi Luke) versus the evil wizard, corrupted by his power (Sauron/Darth Vader)

 

the heroes are individuals (Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Legolas, Elrond, Eowyn, etc/Luke, Leia, Han, Chewbacca, even the machines R2-D2 and C-3PO) while, except for the main few, the villains are collectives (primarily the Orcs and the Nazgul/Imperial Stormtroopers)

 

one could even make a case for the ultimate evil (the Ring/the emperor) being destroyed in a fall...although that might be stretching a bit the imagery is still the same

 

 

I'm rather certain Lucas had a copy of LotR somewhere.

Don't say there isn't also a parallel between the Oliphaunts of the Battle of Minas Tirith, and the TB-TT of the Assault on Hoth. Both scenes of courageous attempts to fight these monsters advancing line abreast are critical moments of the movies, the individual successes on close attacks by Legolas and Luke can even be matched.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Parallels between The Lord of the Rings and Star Wars (focussing on episodes IV, V and VI):

 

the triumph of the simple agrarian society (Hobbits/Ewoks, who played a decisive role in aiding the rebels to disable the protective force field) over the massive industrialized one

 

a good wizard (Gandalf/Obi-wan and later the Jedi Luke) versus the evil wizard, corrupted by his power (Sauron/Darth Vader)

 

the heroes are individuals (Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Legolas, Elrond, Eowyn, etc/Luke, Leia, Han, Chewbacca, even the machines R2-D2 and C-3PO) while, except for the main few, the villains are collectives (primarily the Orcs and the Nazgul/Imperial Stormtroopers)

 

one could even make a case for the ultimate evil (the Ring/the emperor) being destroyed in a fall...although that might be stretching a bit the imagery is still the same

 

 

I'm rather certain Lucas had a copy of LotR somewhere.

 

I agree completely..there are real similarities. That said, I suppose all 'epic' type tales are similar in construction, even if the plot is slightly different..but I'm with you..Lucas read Lotr

[gordohk 1]

I am surprised no one has mentioned Three Kings, GI Jane, or Fly Boys

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I am surprised no one has mentioned Three Kings, GI Jane, or Fly Boys

 

I'm not surprised Flyboys is excluded...it's generally considered (at least here)..to be utter crap

 

Oh...I just spotted your Irony!..hahahahahahaha :lol:

Edited March 14, 2012 by UK_Widowmaker

[gordohk 1]

Eagle has Landed cracks me it. It is indeed a classic. I like the following not in any order:

 

A Bridge Too Far

Platoon

The Light Horse

Patton

 

I have a slew of other movies

Edited March 14, 2012 by gordohk

[Flyby PC 23]

Don't they say there are only 7 stories in classical literature? Everything else is merely a variation or compilation of those 7 originals. A debt that must be paid, A hidden virtue being found, a love triangle, a fatal mistake in a perfect plan, a good man who can't be kept down, and a troubled boy meets girl love story a la Romeo and Juliet. That's only 6...

 

 

Lord of the Rings also has the religious parrallels with Gandalf being resurrected like the Messiah etc...

 

 

May be, but all the same, it's still breathtaking and inspiring that Lord of the Rings was written by one man. Best book (or trilogy) in the world IMHO, - and by a country mile.

 

 

 

No 7 - The loss of a precious gift.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(EDIT - No pun intended on the precious gift).

 

 

 

 

 

Edit 2, Slightly off topic, I respect your opinons, but I don't feel the same way about the Kamikaze. I'd recommend you read Knights of Bushido by Lord Russel of Liverpool and see if you still feel the same about the noble Bushido.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Flyby PC

[Hauksbee 103]

Reading all these comments keeps jogging my memory, making me revise my opinions. At this point, I'd submit "Schindler's List". It's not a combat-war movie, but I feel it's a brilliant film, both in writing and photography, and when all is said and done, the events portrayed are true.

[Olham 164]

Well, if we name non-combat movies, one of my top favourites is "To be or not to be" by Ernst Lubitsch.