OFF2 DEVELOPMENT Screenshots

[von Baur 54]

Hmmm. Much has been made of the evils of drinking and driving and of driving while texting. Let me be the first to extoll the dangers of posting while "under the influence".

 

That said, I would add, "In vino veritas".

 

Now, where in hell did I leave that bottle of aspirin???

[Hellshade 110]

The idea that they should "release already" and take care of the rest with adds on that we pay for makes perfect sense....assuming that they have been able to develop the game by making sure all of the core features were done first and are indeed now only working on the "extras'.

 

But what if they are still tweaking aspects of the combat AI so that they can either remain fighting up high longer without diving for the deck or else when they get down low they cannot yet fight effectively, making them too easy of a kill? What if the flight models don't all match up within reason of being historically accurate yet? What if the campaign manager doesn't have a complete database and there are many squadrons that have huge holes in them regarding what planes they flew, when they flew them, which Aces flew them and what squadron colors were painted across their wings? What if the Multiplayer option is currently just a shell of what it needs to be in order to be enjoyable?

 

Should they still release it then?

 

I hardly think there would be anything but a great wailing of disappointment from even the most faithful (W)OFF enthusiasts. The (W)OFF crowd is quite particular and vocal about even the smallest of details. It's not just the Devs who are perfectionists. It seems to me that in the past there have been many in the crowd who clamor for no less than what the Devs are trying to provide by pointing out some of the smallest details that are not right (real or imagined) and the Devs who are the recipient of such "feedback" are more than aware of that.

 

If you ask me, and I will pointedly note that nobody has, the time it is taking to produce and ship WOFF can be equally attributed to as much the perfectionism of the fanbase as it can be to the Devs.

 

Hellshade

Edited April 28, 2013 by Hellshade

[rjw 48]

I have to side with Hellshade on this.

I don't want it until it is complete and the Dev's are happy with it.

 

All core functionality in place!

 

Enough said.

[Flyby PC 23]

I'm with the Devs.

 

Just cast you're mind back to the first time you installed vanilla CFS3 if you need any reminders about half finished software released too soon.

 

Take your time Devs.

[Creaghorn 10]

I'm with the Devs.

 

Just cast you're mind back to the first time you installed vanilla CFS3 if you need any reminders about half finished software released too soon.

 

Take your time Devs.

 

and red baron II/red baron 3d

[Hasse Wind 46]

I think there's been a misunderstanding. I wasn't suggesting that the devs release an unfinished and buggy product like CFS3 or RB2. I was only saying that you can add things like new aircraft and squadrons, maybe even a new theatre of war (Italy!) in expansion packs and there's no need to try to add everything to the basic release version.

 

It goes without saying that nobody wants to get a buggy POS after waiting for so many years. But there are dangers in waiting forever too. There's now some serious competition to OFF, with some very active development.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Hasse Wind

[Olham 164]

That is what I meant to say too. No one wants an unfinished product.

From OBD we wouldn't have to expect a halfbaked sim for sure.

The idea was only to eventually split off parts, which can be added later.

But however the decision and the way - I will wait and I'll be ready.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Olham

[Flyby PC 23]

I wasn't really thinking about the product foremost, but the pressure it puts on the Devs if false expectations arise over imminent release.

 

I already have a mental picture of Pol and WM with nicotine stained fingers from chain smoking 60 a day, emerging from the basement, wincing in the sunlight, in dire need of a bath, a shave and a haircut, and a bit of nervous twitch when anything goes 'bang'; but nevertheless, grinning from ear to ear holding a master DVD because "it's ready".

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

We need look no further than Cliffs of Dover..to see what bringing out a product too early can do!.... Imagine the sh*tstorm if WOFF was released in that state?

[CaptSopwith 26]

We need look no further than Cliffs of Dover..to see what bringing out a product too early can do!.... Imagine the sh*tstorm if WOFF was released in that state?

 

That's a damn fine point, Widow! And, truthfully, I feel a bit ungrateful considering how much I have left to explore in OFF! In the nearly four years I've been playing BH&H, I'm sure I've barely scratched the surface of what the sim has to offer. There are still so many missions, so many squadrons, so many more fights to be had.

 

I played Red Baron 3D for nearly 8 years before my love of the game started to dull. So, by RB standards, I'm only halfway through my journey in OFF.

 

You're absolutely right though - they need to get it right, and I have every confidence they will - they haven't had a misstep yet!

[JFM 18]

I've been flying OFF since Phase 1, released (IIRC) in late 2005. Capt Sopwith, I'm quickly approaching your benchmark...

 

Nobody is saying to release the sim early. And it's almost an insult to the devs to think they'd bow under under such supposed "pressure" and thus need everybody's reassurances not to. They're not a bunch of spineless gits cowering under the Great Unwashed's cracking whips. Good Lord, give 'em credit for having a pair.

 

Also, don't confuse enthusiasm and interest with impatience. But, wait a minute, on the other hand, any impatience only affects he who is impatient, not the devs. Thus, who cares if I or anyone else is impatient? (See last sentence in previous paragraph.)

Edited April 29, 2013 by JFM

[Flyby PC 23]

It's addiction fellas, let's face it.

 

I forget what comedy program it came from, but I remember chuckling at a quote saying something like "There's something very 'more-ish' about heroin". Not that funny perhaps, but it made me chuckle...

[Olham 164]

I wasn't really thinking about the product foremost, but the pressure it puts on the Devs...

 

I already have a mental picture of Pol and WM with nicotine stained fingers from chain smoking 60 a day, emerging from the basement,

wincing in the sunlight, in dire need of a bath, a shave and a haircut, and a bit of nervous twitch when anything goes 'bang'...

 

Ahem - I have a more professional "vision" of them.

They are all grown ups.

They have made an incredible cornerstone for WW1 Air Combat Sims with OFF.

They are not under the pressure of company managers or money lenders.

 

They are actually as free as can be to build a great follow-up product.

And I bet, that is exactly what they are doing.

In their own time.

[Flyby PC 23]

I have the same opinion Olham, perhaps the little bit of humour I meant is lost a little in translation.

[Olham 164]

Hey, Flyby, I meant to send the same: seasoned with a little blink of the eye.

A pity we can't post incl. "emotional timbre". I knew you were only joking.

[Bullethead 12]

Hey, Flyby, I meant to send the same: seasoned with a little blink of the eye.

A pity we can't post incl. "emotional timbre". I knew you were only joking.

 

Well, having been a game dev in my day, I think Flyby's view is entirely accurate :). The first game I did, I had both legs in casts so could do anything but sit there and write code and test it on a laptop while consuming insane amounts of nicotine and caffiene to counter the painkillers. By the time we released it, the casts were off, no more pain killers, and I was in physical therapy, so there was nothing for it but to drink heavily while answering all the support questions.

 

Being a game dev takes decades off your life. I'm glad I'm out of that racket and I have nothing but respect for those who keep at it.

[Olham 164]

Bullethead - man, this time you had me worried! This leave was a bit too long, Sir!

[RamblingSid 3]

Afraid I've given up on WOFF appearing anytime soon - don't watch teaser vids anymore either.

 

So, in my case, fatalism replaced impatience some time ago.

 

It would be good if we got a heads up a little before the release as I am thinking of getting a replacement for my gtx 570 in celebration, but that is all the further info I require.

 

Meanwhile my modded OFF is working very well at the mo and satisfies 85% of the time (AI still a bugbear though).

Btw, if you find you are a bit jaded with OFF may I suggest flying as a wingman rather than a flight leader, it is a different experience.

 

Thanks to the devs, and peace to all.

 

RS

 

[Bullethead 12]

Bullethead - man, this time you had me worried! This leave was a bit too long, Sir!

 

Yeah, I missed you all, too. Still no WOFF I see, and the computer I bought for it is 1.5 years old now . Oh well, still a great rig for other things .

 

I keep wondering why OBD doesn't take pre-orders for WOFF. All I can do to hurry things along from where I sit is throw money at them and I'm quite happy to do so.

[Hellshade 110]

I keep wondering why OBD doesn't take pre-orders for WOFF. All I can do to hurry things along from where I sit is throw money at them and I'm quite happy to do so.

 

I too would like to pre-order it, as would a great many others. I'm guessing the reason they haven't taken pre-orders though is can you imagine if we had pre-ordered it sometime in 2010 and it still hadn't shipped yet and had no release date. Most pre-orders are for games that are about to ship in the next 30 days or so.

[Javito1986 14]

My, you lot are a buncha rascals!

 

I know it's been a couple years, but let's get real here. For me, there's a straight line between Wings of Glory, Red Baron 3D and OFF. What do they all have in common? There was years in between them!

 

The forums are quieter these days, certainly. Myself, I graduated out of college, got a job and am studying the law school exam in my spare time. Sopwith has his work. Hellshade's got his work (though I keep up with your YouTube vids!). Olham does his thing. Tranquilo's getting better. Etc etc.

 

But think about it, this community is not going to fracture because we are the hardcore WW1 flight sim community. I've been at this since RB3D, most of you have been biplane enthusiasts since before I was born. Louvert has an entire damn French aviator's uniform in his house, and I believe every single book ever written on the subject in their original editions going back to 1919. That man has his work to do, but trust me, he's ain't going anywhere. Neither am I, neither are any of you fellows.

 

WOFF's going to release when the Devs finish it. They're the crazier about this stuff than any of us after all. I haven't played OFF since 2011, but it's not because I'm not interested anymore. Lord of the Rings is my all-time favorite book, but I haven't read it since '08. Believe me, when the Hobbit released in December I was ass-in-movie-chair on Day 1. When WOFF releases I'll mail my credit card to Pov and let him have his way with it. 'til then I'll keep working, doing my thing, play games in other genres (I'm big into Planetside and Mechwarrior right now), and hang out on the OFF forums periodically.

 

There's my .02! TL;DR, the community's quiet but fine. No cause for concern. When I have a little more time on my hands I'll reinstall OFF, seems my exe file got corrupted sometime in the last year or so. I do miss it!

Edited May 3, 2013 by Javito1986

[von Baur 54]

Preorder? Preoder what? As Hellshade pointed out, If we had preordered when OFF4 was first being talked about, the devs might now be trying to scrape up the cash to refund some of that money three years later with nothing to show but promises, screenshots and the occassional video. Besides, I doubt the holdup is money. Rather, it seems to me to be a case of time. Possibly because, as I said earlier, they want to delay release until they are satisfied with it. I've never built a computer game, but I have built much of what's on my land, most of it with spit and baling wire. And I can tell you, there's precious little of it I don't wish I'd done a little differently**edit-(it all does what it's supposed to and everyone who sees it is impressed, but all I see is what could be better)**. IMO, if a builder is completely satisfied with a project, he's setting his sights too low. PERFECTION IS UNATTAINABLE!!! I wish I'd said that before (oh, yeah...I did). And if I'd not built any of it until I was completly certain I'd be completely happy with the results there'd be precious little of it...period!

 

Anybodey else here remember Birds of Prey? Lots of impressive screenshots. Lots of discussion on the forum from the devs about how well the planes flew, how beautiful everything was, what an amazing simulation it would be. They even had a "museum" where you could take tours of some of the planes. Never materialized.

 

Same thing with the Richtofen's Skies, nee Target Flanders, mod for M9, nee Target Ware. That even had a Beta release that was a lot of fun to fly. But after years of promises of a revision that never came interest dwindled and died.

 

Bullethead invested in a new computer for this. I've recently done the same. His is now outdated (a year-and-a-half is an eternity in computer advancements). I have to wonder if mine will be by the time WOFF is released (or whatever it's called by then). How many others will spend money on new or upgraded rigs primarily, if not specifically, for WOFF only to have them become obsolete while waiting.

 

What iis the holdup? Is it core functionality? Are you still wrestling with AI behavior and flight/damage models? Certainly those are central issues and deserve a high level of accuracy. If so, say so, that we might know release is still quite a ways off and we can stop holding our breath (I look good in blue, but not so much when I am blue). Or is it because there's an obscure squadron/staffel/escadrille that hasn't been nailed down yet? And if so, is that really worth the delay? I guarantee that unless you have EVERY outfit accurately equipped with EVERY plane it flew and all skinned properly you're going to hear about it from the .05% of the following who happen to know the history of that particular outfit because his great-grandfather had a friend whose cousin delivered eggs to them once and so has learned everything there is to know about it right down to how many times a day they fed their mascot, Bruce the one-winged ptarmigan (and the true story about that missing wing). Is it fair to starve the rest of us because that one person may not be happy with the flavor of the feast?

 

With apologies to the brothers Maverick, as my pappy used to say "S**t or get off the pot."

 

 

**disclaimer..no alcohol was used in the composition of this post.**

Edited May 3, 2013 by von Baur

[Hellshade 110]

Well, all I can say after that post is they damn well better not release it until they have the full story of one winged, egg eating ptarmigan mascot fully integrated into the campaign.

 

Anything less is going to be getting a "Boo Hiss" from this simmer.

 

 

Hellshade

[Olham 164]

There must be multiple smaller and bigger reasons which hold up the release.

They build and add something, and then many other things need adjustments etc.

Knowing them a while now, I'm sure there are only "good reasons" - they wouldn't do it for bad ones.

 

I don't think a 1 1/2 year old rig would be outdated for WOFF.

After all it won't work with the latest possible visual effects. It should still work fine, I guess.

[Hasse Wind 46]

I don't think there's going to be a huge improvement in the graphics department. It's still the same engine, after all. The new screenshots show improvements, but nothing that requires a super powerful rig. So if somebody bought a good PC a year or two ago, I'm sure it'll be more than enough to play WOFF smoothly.