Spawning Friendly and Enemy Flights

[Panama Red 22]

Am I correct to assume that all friendly and enemy flights (other than the friendly flights that start on your airfield) are spawned in the air during the campaign game ???

[Hasse Wind 46]

Actually, the campaign generator plans missions for all the squadrons in your front, both friend and enemy, and the AI aircraft then try to complete these missions, just like you and your flight are doing. Unlike in the majority of sims, nothing is spawned out of thin air just for you to encounter. It's a living world where everything is not tied to your actions.

[Panama Red 22]

My question is, do these other flights start in the air or on the ground like your flight ???

[Von Paulus 8]

It would make sense that some would start in the air, because not everybody go to war at the same hour.

But to be honest never bothered with it.

[Panama Red 22]

The reason that I ask, is that some planes using the EW mods have a difficult time taking off from an airfield. But if you are not flying that particular plane in your campaign and it is only an AI plane spawned in the air, then it would not matter if the EW mod made it to heavy to take off because it would already be in the air. This is why I am asking this question if anybody knows the real answner.

[Tamper 9]

I think there's some confusion over the usage of the word 'spawn'. Most everyone - particularly the OBD team - will adamantly insist there is no trigger-based "spawning" in OFF (and I believe their perspective to be accurate).

 

At the same time, VP makes a point above: If we assume the 'living world' around you that OFF prides itself on being, then it must also be true that, at any given moment, many aircraft are already airborne; naturally, this would include the moment at which your flight goes 'wheels up'. I could only assume that there are already some planes up at that moment.

 

Therefore, one might be inclined to consider this as 'spawning' - but therein lies the issue: I think the term would more properly be that these planes start in the air. Spawning (for me, at least) indicates something that happens as the sim is underway, as opposed to a 'start' event, which occurs once at the beginning of sim play.

 

I can't speak to the question about the mods you asked, but I thought I'd offer a clarification in the matter which seems to have driven some confusion in this discussion.

[Panama Red 22]

Tamper:

Then I will re-ask the question: Do the other Friendly and Enemy flights start in the air on on the ground in the campaign game ???

[Hasse Wind 46]

The OFF developers are possibly the only people who know the answer to that question. You can find them from the new official forum at SimHQ: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/89/1/Over_Flanders_Fields.html

[Olham 164]

I have seen other flights landing, but no idea about their takeoffs.

Hasse Wind's advice is best - ask them there; they should see it then.

[Panama Red 22]

In answer to my question over at SHQ:

 

Polovski says: "For BH&H given it's a slice in time they usually start part way through their missions so in the air normally."

 

 

[Von Paulus 8]

Polovski:

Some will be taking off btw just mostly the missions will be underway or almost over etc. Random points in time basically. There are NO spawns as the player reaches point xyz or whatever, we hate that.

 

Winder:

OFF P3 in campaign mode there are real flights from historically correct squadrons on real missions - up to 256 aircaft in the theater depending on your workshop settings.

These Flights are not spawns, they start either on their historically correct airfield and fly to their mission objectives, or they may be aleady on their way to their mission objectives or even on their way home again.

 

In WOFF (P4) this 'living world' concept has been improved and taken forward in several ways - but we are not realeasing details yet.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Von Paulus

[+Lothar of the Hill People 6]

The reason that I ask, is that some planes using the EW mods have a difficult time taking off from an airfield. But if you are not flying that particular plane in your campaign and it is only an AI plane spawned in the air, then it would not matter if the EW mod made it to heavy to take off because it would already be in the air. This is why I am asking this question if anybody knows the real answner.

I've taken to doing air starts after watching half my AI wingmen crash into the hills/trees/hangars at the end of the runway with the EW mod. But is it affecting the density of other craft in the air taking off for their AI missions?

[Hasse Wind 46]

So the EW mod doesn't work well? Even the latest version?

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Guys, if anyone else is having problems with the AI crashing into hills or trees at the end of the runway, be sure to let me know so I can correct it. So far, I haven't observed it in any of my tests or campaigns, but some aerodromes are trickier for the AI than others.

[corsaire31 7]

Talking about landing, there is no command to ask your wingmen to RTB ? Whenever I land at home base, I never see wingmen landing, they seem to vanish in the air ... Or should I wait some time to see them land ? As they are pretty poor quality pilots (every time you make a turn they continue straight for a mile before realizing the leader changed heading then it takes them 5 minutes to rejoin...) may be they're affraid of landing ? lol ! Or did I miss something ?

[Olham 164]

Corsair, the last waypoint before the field is essential. You could try it and use your "warp" to get to it.

And then you will see, that your wingmen all fly away in the same direction.

Now you can either follow them, or land and wait (let the engine on, to prevent an exit).

 

If you fly with them, they will lead you away 2 miles from the field.

Then they turn round and make their landing approaches.

Very rarely, they make a good landing. More often, they crash into tress or each other.

But sometimes one or two make it.

 

Bertincourt is a field where I saw great landings happening alright. That is a heartwarming sight!

[+Polovski 458]

"Spawning" refers to actions based on a trigger, i.e. player flies to point x so randomly plonk some enemy nearby (like they had Scotty on the Star ship Enterprise teleport them in). eerkk. You may observe that in some sims, where you look at a space and know it is clear for 10 miles, then turn back 1 second later to find incoming hostile aircraft spawned in that space.

 

CFS3 had this, as do most sims out there too, but OFF removes them and assigns real campaign missions as WM states above. But all flights out there then get on with their mission as assigned, whether the player passes by or not they continue.

 

Of course it's daft to start them all on the ground as that would be unrealistic too unless we only let you fly once per real 12 hours and make you wait 30 mins or an hour for your flight ;)

 

 

There is landing in P3 but CFS3 is handling it, especially as it flies miles away first, and we put ahem trees in forests / near our fields just like real life. They tend to not like those when landing :)

 

WOFF is brand new AI and do land (and much more) ..

Edited June 14, 2012 by Polovski

[Olham 164]

... all flights out there then get on with their mission as assigned, whether the player passes by or not they continue.

Don't know about others, but this fact is one of the strongest "immersion points" in "Over Flanders Fields" for me.

The fact, that all the nations' air services are all doing their own timed operations, and that I can meet them, if I

leave my patrol path and fly somewhere completely different - this fact only makes it like a real world.

A reality factor I have so far missed in any other sim.

 

WOFF is brand new AI and do land (and much more) ..

Teaser! Swine!! Beast!!! You guys make me crazy with your carrots on a fishing rod!!! Raaaahhhh - hahahahaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

[corsaire31 7]

Corsair, the last waypoint before the field is essential. You could try it and use your "warp" to get to it.

 

Man, I never use anything like "warp" or "jump to next waypoint" ! Talk about an immersion-killer ! I usually fly close to the last waypoint before airfield, but then I was concentrating on my own touchdown and not looking at what the other guys were doing.

Thks for the info on landing, better exit the mission than see them in the trees. Seems to be a WW1 problem as until the last releases RoF planes where also finishing their missions in trees or hangars...

 

In a way, objects are always "spawning" because you move around your virtual world in a 3D bubble, and objects only appear in 3D if they enter your bubble. I agree the difference is if this appearance is linked to a trigger, or if the way followed by all the objects is computed in real time, which is the case with the OFF manager, which means you can go anywhere and meet other planes on duty if they enter your 3D bubble.

Edited June 14, 2012 by corsaire31

[Olham 164]

Corsair, I meant only a very short "warp", when you are almost at the last waypoint.

It is only to make sure, that you hit the waypoint, which is hard manually.

And only if you hit it, the mission will be regarded as successfully over; and your

wingmen will fly off to their 2-mile-mark.

I have made fine landings with my Jasta 2-Halberstadts.

[OlPaint01 0]

Olham, It is such a heart breaking experience flying that last leg of a long mission deep into enemy territory then back again, with an AAR to file for many claims, to see all your squadmates crash and burn short of the runway before your very eyes. Sniff!!! They will be missed :( Gone, but not forgotten.

 

OlPaint

Edited June 14, 2012 by OlPaint01

[Olham 164]

Don't cry, OlPaint - they are all crash-proof, and will still appear on the pilot roster for the next missions.

I don't know how they do it, but they hardly show a bruise.

Only the Kaiser is very upset, because each scout costs about 70.000 Reichsmark.

(A bargain it would be today, wouldn't it?)

Edited June 14, 2012 by Olham

[+Lothar of the Hill People 6]

Next version of OFFbase will let you mark your wingman as "Returned to Base". I use this when they crash on takeoff and pretend they just never made it off the field with mechanical problems. Or if they crash on landing I can cut their crummy flying AI some slack and assume they walked away from it. This keeps the OFF Manager from killing them, even randomly, at least for the next couple of hours so they're ready to go on the next sortie. Unless you hate them and mark them as "Crashed" in OFFbase where they'll face chances of injury/maiming/death!

 

Gives me an idea: if you check both the "Returned to Base" and "Crashed" in your report the Adjutant can easily interpret that as "Crashed on Landing". It'd be a simple matter to have OFFbase sort out who's actually likely to crash based on the Aerial Skill attribute of characters. Report such incidents, and watch Natural Selection more strongly weed out inexperienced and bad flyers.